B&G, Suncoast or GDE TCU Flash, Which One is Best and Why???

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:11 am

Before I go on a Hot Tune Blast, Joe asked me a good question.
Which firm to do the TCU flash with and why?
Both good companies, I have done business with both.
Both have good customer service reputations and provide prompt responses.
I am going to let this new T/C and flash settle in, put on a few miles and make up my mind, but I am thrifty!!!

EDIT: 3 is company, Thanks Warp2diesel!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:40 pm

Add this one to the mix, B&G has added a new tune that I suspect is a CRD compatible ECM tune morphed from the SunCoast Stage II (68RFE) TCM tune jointly developed with B&G and SunCoast. The SunCoast Stage II is what was developed to help prevent 68RFE transmissions connected to hopped (like 800HP) up Cummins engines from shelling out especially when towing big loads.
The other SunCoast tune the Pre-F37 Restoration Tune is exactly what it says it is in the description, nothing more or less the original CRD TCM tune rescued from a borrowed TCM and copied. Many CRD owners are as happy as a clam with a Pre-F-37 TCM tune.

For the B&G TCM tune : http://www.bgperformancepcm.com/#jeep

For the New B&G tune contact them for the Sales/Benefit aspects.

Based upon B&G's reputation and the fact that their Guru is a Retired Chrysler TCM Development Engineer, I have no cautionary comments, he helped save a bunch of 68RFEs connected to Cummins engines.

flman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:57 am

Suncoast: For $250 you get a stock TCM with no F37 present, not sure how it works with an improved torque converter, but it is rough on the original factory installed torque converter.

GDE: For $300 you get a tested tune that a man put alot of effort into those tests, that includes return shipping with 1 day turn around, plus all parameters are optimized for best pulling and fuel economy. So for $50 more, you might as well save some fuel.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:33 pm

flman wrote:

Suncoast: For $250 you get a stock TCM with no F37 present, not sure how it works with an improved torque converter, but it is rough on the original factory installed torque converter.

GDE: For $300 you get a tested tune that a man put alot of effort into those tests, that includes return shipping with 1 day turn around, plus all parameters are optimized for best pulling and fuel economy. So for $50 more, you might as well save some fuel.

To add to that, GDE's tune does work with a stock TC

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:37 pm

The thing I like about GDE is that they make sure everything they sell will NOT diminish any of the longevity of the diesel engine and driveline. They just polish the CRD up without killing it...hence the reason they don't mess with the line pressures on the tranny, etc.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:24 pm

Whatever happened to rumor that a Suncoast guy was going to make a 6 speed out of the TCU?

flman · **Posted:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:43 pm

CRD Joe wrote:

Whatever happened to rumor that a Suncoast guy was going to make a 6 speed out of the TCU?

Yeah that would give our rigs a nice range, wouldn't it?

fastRob · **Posted:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:51 pm

CRD Joe wrote:

Whatever happened to rumor that a Suncoast guy was going to make a 6 speed out of the TCU?

The 6th gear is right near 2nd, it is used as a passing gear, some B.S. so passing at predetermined speeds is quick enough.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:31 am

We do have a six speeds in the form of TWO second gears :SOMBRERO:

One is used when upshifting and the other is for your downshifting :ALONE:

There is not enough difference between them to be usefull :-)r

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:19 am

CRD Joe wrote:

Whatever happened to rumor that a Suncoast guy was going to make a 6 speed out of the TCU?

Ron Wolverton's son Chris is still testing a Six speed 545RFE PCM (ECM/TCM combo used in the gassers) in his hopped up Hemi truck. From what I got one day Chris likes it and another day he does not.
Like Joe Romas said there is not enough difference between 2nd and 2nd' to be use full in our CRDs. The only place I could really see an advantage of turning 2nd' into third, third into fourth, fourth into fifth, and fifth into sixth would be for extreme towing, like pulling a sled in a truck pulling contest.
BG's flash looks tempting but the $450 is a little stiff.
Again the Pre F-37 Restoration Flash through SunCoast is just undoing the damage caused by F-37, nothing more.
When I asked Ron Wolverton about the GDE TCM flash, he said that he wished them luck and every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
That is why I am still hanging on the fence and using an experimental TCM with a lot of great features, but a one not so great one. What I like is the lower shifting points that blow away a lot of A$$-Sumptions that induce shudder that I did not have with either a stock Torque Converter or my SunCoast Converter. I can be in 5th lock at 48MPH with no ill effects. What I don't like is the premature down shifts when I punch it, get rid of that, there would be a great TCM tune. For now, I don't give it more than half an accelerator pedal.
More later.

flman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:20 am

Joe Romas wrote:

We do have a six speeds in the form of TWO second gears :SOMBRERO:

One is used when upshifting and the other is for your downshifting :ALONE:

There is not enough difference between them to be usefull :-)r

Joe, How is every thing going with the new TC and front pump. Any improvements?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:59 am

flman wrote:

Joe, How is every thing going with the new TC and front pump. Any improvements?

Other then the transmission needing to relearn everything is fine. The tech did a quick learn then took it for a couple of drives :shock:

I can tell he liked the power of the CRD by the way it drove when I picked it up :mrgreen:

I have also updated my ECO tune to the "Full torque" version eco tune and that made a very nice change. It takes so little movement of the pedal the transmission seems to shift at lower speeds unless you push it harder. Between the two there is a big improvement. Anyone with other then the original TC and a ECO tune the update to the "full torque" version and get any impovements GDE had made since your tune and it cost a total of $50 including shipping. GDE is very quick and easy to deal with.
Next month we'll be going back to the Outer Banks of NC towing our trailer though mountains in WVa and Va and that will be the real test of both the tune and TC.

I'm also trying to get the procedure to send my spare TCM in for the Suncoast pre F37 tune. All I can say is they must be very busy and Ron is the only one who knows the procedure. After I emailed him Ron emailed me to contact himself or Jimmy. I finally was able to reach Jimmy but he didn't know the procedure. He gave me B&G's address and I gave him my CC number and address and he was going to email me back with any instructions that I might need. That was two business days ago and no word yet

Joe

flman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:59 pm

I am very happy with my Euro TC as well, even if it was put in the quick and dirty way :pepper:

So you are going to go back to the stock non F37 TCM? Let us know how that all goes as well.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:10 pm

flman wrote:

I am very happy with my Euro TC as well, even if it was put in the quick and dirty way :pepper:

So you are going to go back to the stock non F37 TCM? Let us know how that all goes as well.

As is I have the F37 tcm and think while towing with the "full torque" eco tune I can keep it under 70% throttle opening so it won't down shift nearly as much and at the same time not put too much stress on the new TC. But for my normal driving pre f37 would give better fuel mileage.

I'll need to get my spare tcm put back to pre f37 first before I can even try it. Next month I'll know if my suspecions about how it will tow with the f37 tcm tune are correct.

I got the f37 treatment at around 500 miles and at 33k miles the transmission tech found converter clutch material in the pan and I've only had the eco tune for about 12k miles :cry:

So for me there's still some concern about longivity (sp?) even with the Euro TC. If I were paying for it it would have been a suncoast with better clutch material and the heavier springs they now have. I've only towed our trailer 6k miles so that's kind of soon to be having clutch problems. Maybe the new one with decent springs will be easier on the clutch area :roll:

flman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:39 am

Joe Romas wrote:

As is I have the F37 tcm and think while towing with the "full torque" eco tune I can keep it under 70% throttle opening so it won't down shift nearly as much and at the same time not put too much stress on the new TC. But for my normal driving pre f37 would give better fuel mileage.

According to GDE the Euro TC is Bullet Proof, has more torque going to his TC then we have, and he abuses his 2 test mules in a way that you and I never will, I would not worry about hurting it.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Well...nothing is bulletproof. We are limiting torque to 400 ft*lb from 1800-2400rpm with the turbo kit. Above this range we have had some shudder situations with the Euro TC. The latest Suncoast TC design should be able to hold significantly more sustained torque load. However, the engine may need to be studded or other cylinder head modifications to go the distance at 450 ft*lb+. It would make a great powertrain for everday trailer towing or better yet, a rock crawler! The diesel has better throttle (torque) control when inches matter on the rocks.

B&G, Suncoast or GDE TCU Flash, Which One is Best and Why???

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