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 Post subject: Re: Hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:29 pm 
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justinp, is this the same as your diagram?

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 Post subject: Re: Hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:52 pm 
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well hopefully that is right! I wired like that diagram only I used a 15a fuse (is that an appropriate size fuse?). everything is working.

now if someone can explain what the relay actually does and why it is better than the way it was wired?

I also renamed the post so if someone searches in the future, hopefully this post will help them.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:05 pm 
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That is dead on. glad to see its working nice.

Im glad you went with boilers recommendation on the switch placement.

A relay is nothing but an electronic switch. there are two reasons/purposes for using a relay in your setup.

#1: the relay allows your lights to go off with the vehicle.
#2: the relay lets you run the toggle switch with low current.

Relay operation is simple.
The 85 & 86 pin is a coil. an electromanet once excited.
The 30 & 87 is main power in and accessory power out. The actual switch.

When power is applied to the 85 pin electricity flows from 85 through a coil then flows out 86 to gnd. the coil causes an electromagnet. the magnet pulls the switch "closed", which connects your power supply (pin 30), to the accessory (pin 87).
When you remove power from the coil ( 85 pin), the electromagnet then releases, thus allowing the switch (between pins 87 & 30) to return to the open position, which kills power to your accessory. Your setup includes a toggle switch, which controls input to the 85 pin, this allows you to turn the lights on and off as you please (assuming the radio has power).

Reasons for doing this. your relay is there to act as a remote switch, so your lights will only be able to be powered up with the ignition. If you only had a toggle switch hooked to a power supply and your lights, your lghts would come on at any time you flp the toggle switch.

The main reason for relays is to remove high current from a mechanical switch. most toggle switches can only handle 5-10amps. there are heavier duty ones but they cost more and typically get bigger with amperage. so if your toggle switch only handles 5 amps, and your accessory can pull 6amps, your toggle switch will die prematurely :grim: since it has more current flowing through it than it can handle. The relay can handle 30 amps, so you use the relay in place of a toggle switch.

But wait, doesnt the coil pull current (pin 85 and 86)? yes, but it pulls basically nothing compared to the accessory. talking milliamps in most cases. You wired in the toggle switch to the wire coming from the radio, allowing control of the relay with your toggle. meaning the toggle switch only has current flowing through in the amount of the coil. milliamps. thats way better than 6amps.

The original way you wired it, you were pulling power off the radio to power your lights directly, that means your are pulling the entire load of the lights from the tiny radio wire, and it still has to power the radio. So that way you could have easily blown the radio fuse, or burned the wire up. So now you are only pulling the load of the coil from the radio wire (miniscule). Much more reiable and much safer.

Hope this answered your questions. Feel free to ask more.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:44 pm 
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Makes sense.

So you said the relay turns off the current when the vehicle is off. How would the relay know the vehicle was off if the power is coming from the battery? I wired the switch power from the accessory in the radio harness so that the relay would turn off when the vehicle is off (if I forget to turn the switch off). Where is the power typically ran from to power the switch? Does it have to be from an accessory source (only on when Jeep is on)? Or would the relay still power off when the vehicle is off if the switch is powered from a constant (12v instead of ACC in radio harness)?

Thanks everyone for all the info and help. I hope someone else will find this usefull in the future.

Oh yeah........is the 15amp fuse too much? Should I get a smaller fuse?

Also, I have the relay mounted upside down, prongs up (due to short wires). Will this affect the switch, and will a relay produce any heat when used?

Thanks again!

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Quote:
So you said the relay turns off the current when the vehicle is off. How would the relay know the vehicle was off if the power is coming from the battery? I wired the switch power from the accessory in the radio harness so that the relay would turn off when the vehicle is off (if I forget to turn the switch off).


The relay switches open/off when you remove power from the exciter wire (radio wire).

So when you have the vehicle on and the fog toggle switch on, you have lights, if you leave the fog toggle on and shut the vehicle off (radio wire loses power), the coil becomes dead (no magnet), this releases the switch inside the realy. It breaks the circuit. There is still power going to the relay at pin 30, but its not drawing current because the circuit isnt complete (switch in the relay being open).

Quote:
Also, I have the relay mounted upside down, prongs up (due to short wires). Will this affect the switch, and will a relay produce any heat when used?

The main reason you normally mount relays with pins down, is to avoid problems with moisture, if moisture builds up in it it can drain out the bottom, but yours is inside the vehicle so its pretty unimportant, and wont affect operation. All flowing electricity will produce heat since nothing is 100% "efficient", but it wont produce any noticeable heat. Just make sure you insulate the prongs with heat shrink or tape or RTV, something, to avoid a short to ground if the prongs come in contact with anything. even insulate unused pins if you have any.Some relays have a pin 87a.

Quote:
Oh yeah........is the 15amp fuse too much? Should I get a smaller fuse?

According to boiler, your lights should draw about 6amps. So 15amps is probably overkill since you want your fuse to blow at the earliest sign of a problem. A 15 should be fine for 16AWG wire, since from a quick search showed it should be able to handle approximately 22amps MAX, depending on wire type and manufacturer of course. Id probably drop it down to a 7.5 or 10 amp fuse. But either way 7.5, 10 or 15amp, the fuse will burn well before the wire, which is its purpose. :D

I found the 16awg current rating from someone elses chart online.

At my job, the engineers have us install a 25amp circuit breaker for 16AWG wire on a particular task Im used to working on.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Awesome! Thanks again, this forum has been extremely helpful!

Roof mounted fogs next........should go much smoother now that I understand everything!

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Not to confuse you, but since you seem to understand, this is how I wired my lights..
viewtopic.php?p=478384#p478384

Oh and, how about some pictures! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:32 pm 
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Heading out of town for the weekend.......pictures will be posted when I get back.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Sweet. Hopefully you're going somewhere you can get good pics, lol. Have fun!
Image

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Frankenlifted-Al's A-Arms-Goodyear Duractracs 31x10.5R15x7 Cragar D Window 4"bs-Cobra 75WXST - 4' Firestick
4.10s sitting in a box - 3

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:51 pm 
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ok, so here is what I did....(dont know how to resize pictures, hope they aren't too big).

from the battery I installed an inline fuse (10a).
Image

then through the firewall
Image

grounded inside the kick pannel and routed gorund wire, fog light wire, and power wire into the fuse box
Image

relay is mounted into the fuse box
Image

from the relay to the switch, from the switch to the ACC wire in the radio harness
Image

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Fog light wiring, I hope I did this right.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:43 pm 
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looks nice and clean! I still haven't had a chance to re-wire everything, mine looks a little messy, but safe! lol.

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SOLD2007 6 Speed - Projector Retrofit -Custom LED Tail Lights - Lights on Cowl & 130w 8" ProComps - Full Skids-RockLizard Super Skink Sliders-Front Hitch
Frankenlifted-Al's A-Arms-Goodyear Duractracs 31x10.5R15x7 Cragar D Window 4"bs-Cobra 75WXST - 4' Firestick
4.10s sitting in a box - 3

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2002 Jeep TJ


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