Light bars

RaeRae1616 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:23 pm **Posts:** 124

kkkustom wrote:

Last night I painted and cleared the bar.. but it was still tacky at around 9:30 so i did not get a chance to mount it and take pics. tonight I WILL!!!

I came up with a crazy idea.. a swinging rear bar!!! picture this... the 4 foot bar goes across the back.. but each end has a 2 foot extension that swivels out from behind the bar to extend past the side of the jeep by 2 feet. or it can even swivel 300 degrees or so to extend over the back tire to see everything. you coudl move this thing all over... and when it is folded back into the closed position it would look like just 2 rear facing light in the middle of the bar! IF you can picture this rant in your head!! cool... if not i will come up with a demo set up or something!

Now that is creative my friend! Seriously, if you could give it the ability to rotate at least 180 degrees (ie. from perfectly vertical above the bar to perfectly vertical below the bar) then you'd have all the range of motion you would need. Hmm.. a lock pin with some holes or something would do it. As you mentioned it could swing out, 180 degrees thus the light is facing to the front of the jeep and then could be rotated/aimed down (of course the light already has a horizontal tilt) towards the tires. Or the bar could be swung out only about 90 degrees (assuming the glass is down) and rotated to aim right at the hitch areas. All you need is some way to kind of tighten up the swing out hinge so it doesn't free swing . . . a screw with rubber to bite or something. That way when you let go it stays in place for the most part; would just be part of the hinge.

As long as there is no easy way to slight the hole thing off and steal it, you're on to something really slick there.

Wow, what a creative idea . . .

Brandon

RaeRae1616 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:23 pm **Posts:** 124

kkkustom wrote:

here is my 3rd grace CAD design! I am at work so this is the best I can do right now!

Wow, what software did you use to do that CAD design in? Man, it's slick, I could totally understand it, and the "Hand Drawn Rendition" is very realistic . . .

Brandon

dog_party · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:37 pm

Freaky! kkkustom, if I'm following your brainstorm right, that's exactly what I've been designing! The structural limitations I'm coming up with are:
• Lights need to be placed in the middle of the rear (end of 2-foot bar opposite rotation point)
• No weight support in middle where lights need to be placed - Need strong locking mechanism to support both vertical weight and horizontal pressure (wind resistance created by lights while at speed is going to weigh more than the light being pulled down by gravity)
• Rotating mechanism needs to be seriously HD to withstand forces
• Attach method to rail/Jeep needs to be seriously HD to withstand forces
• Lights need to revolve around the rotating bar or they will point forward after being rotated out (this revolution capability will also be needed to point them down toward the hitch area). This comment is based on the lights revolving along the X plane (front-to-back method...bars stay parallel to the ground all the time). If the bar revolve along the Y plane (top-to-bottom...bars stay parallel to the rear of the vehicle all the time) the rotation of the lights would not need to revolve, but would also not reach back to point down at the hitch point.

If we can make it, it'll be AWESOME! But if it's not made entirely of really heavy duty materials, it's not going to last long. It won't be cheap, that's for sure.

You can also see (in the "open" picture) that the rear rail on my truck IS visible through the open rear window. You can see some light through that thing, but the severe angle that the light hits that tinted glass at really diminishishs the light's effectiveness. It's better than nothing, but you're better off with the rear glass closed.

And I can't wait to see the picts of the rail you made kkkustom!! Post 'em as soon as you get 'em!!!

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:06 pm

How bout instead of "swing out" design which rotates front to rear,and which would require a rotation of the light to get it to face backwards again and neccesitate in a loose light connection, Use a swing up, then down design? In other words rotate the end of the bar with the light straight up into the air so it points at the sky then through an arc to the side to sit in the same plane as it was before. Now the light will still be pointed toward the rear but just be upside down. Seems to be a much simpler solution to having to reorient the light from facing front to facing rear and would maintain light's aiming. and all it would require is a clamp that would be loosened enough to rotate around on the stock rail. Then u could place a piece of flat stock across the rails UNDER the 1/2 bars the lights are fastened too as in normal crossbar orientation. This bar would stay rigid and give you a place to sit the 2 light bars on for support when in the normal position and even to secure them to with large knobs or wingnuts for rigidity if u wanted too. Would prevent bouncing of the light bars, stability against wind, and theft prevention.

RaeRae1616 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:23 pm **Posts:** 124

Cacher123 wrote:

How bout instead of "swing out" design which rotates front to rear,and which would require a rotation of the light to get it to face backwards again and neccesitate in a loose light connection, Use a swing up, then down design? In other words rotate the end of the bar with the light straight up into the air so it points at the sky then through an arc to the side to sit in the same plane as it was before. Now the light will still be pointed toward the rear but just be upside down. Seems to be a much simpler solution to having to reorient the light from facing front to facing rear and would maintain light's aiming. and all it would require is a clamp that would be loosened enough to rotate around on the stock rail. Then u could place a piece of flat stock across the rails UNDER the 1/2 bars the lights are fastened too as in normal crossbar orientation. This bar would stay rigid and give you a place to sit the 2 light bars on for support when in the normal position and even to secure them to with large knobs or wingnuts for rigidity if u wanted too. Would prevent bouncing of the light bars, stability against wind, and theft prevention.

X/Y Axis For Reference:

Y
|
|
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-------- X

That is what was described by dog_party when he mentioned swinging out in the "Y" plane (parallel to the back of the jeep). At first this seems like a good idea, but I think much of the flexibility of the system would be lost in that design. The point is to be able to illuminate the tire areas (both front and rear), the hitch area, as well as straight back behind the Jeep for a variety of purposes . . . unless the swing arm operates in the "X" plane (parallel to the ground) with the ability to revolve the light around the swing arm at least 180 degrees, then these points of illumination cannot all be accomplished. To best illuminate the Hitch area (due to positions of the tire, back glass, etc.) it would be very advantageous to be able to have the lights swing out in the "X" axis but only 90 degrees, placing them straight out from the back of the Jeep.

I guess in my mind (of which I'm not an engineer) there shouldn't be too many issues with stability. I wouldn't think you'd Ever travel at highway speeds with the Lights in any position other than fully closed, in which case a clasp of some sort could be used for additional stability near the light. Otherwise, I'd imagine you'd only be backing up slowly or sitting still with the lights in any swung out position. So any form of compression or squeeze lock would work fine to hold them . . . or even a bar type locking mechanism.

You could put holes all along both the main brace and the swing arm and use a rod of a fixed length that slips into a hole on each bar. So that as you open the swing arm the angle between the two bars increases. But the possible angles for locking would be fixed in 30 degree increments (or whatever). As you open the swing arm you'd place the rod in the best holes (along each rod) to lock that angle and hold the lights from swinging. Then the rod could be stored by slipping into two hols on the main bar with a clasp to hold it there . . . make sense? Just an idea for facilitating a locking hinge.

Brandon

kkkustom · **Joined:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:33 am **Posts:** 160

so what you are saying is take the pivot point from vertical to horizonal, right? that would work good too it would look really funny driving around with them 90 degrees straight up towards the sky!

What about a simple paralle retraction design that just slid/extended the lights out each side and extra 2 feet... then you wont need to change the light position on its mount at all. just keep them toed in or crosseyed so that when they are extended they focus back to the center more. then you have infident adjustibilty from + 1 inch to 24" each side. that would be easy to make just take mounting tube's OD and fit it into the solid mounts ID... slot the outside tube and put a stud on the inside with a big wingnut outside to clamp down and hold the position.

dog_party · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:30 pm

I like the Y axis pivot and I really like the new idea of sliding out 24". That's awesome for clearing the lifted back glass...but now I really have my mind wrapped around the X avis pivot and I want those lights sticking 1.5' off the back of the truck to point straight down.

How about we replace the KJ ball joints the greaseable ones and then use the stock ball joints for ultimate rear-facging light flexibility! :lol:

Okay, now back to reality...I love Cather's idea of having a solid bar that goes all the way across. The rotating 2' bars can rest on this and be clamped to it when in the "closed" position. Great idea!

And I love kkkustom's idea about the parallel retraction idea! No rotating involved. Clamps, guides and maybe some stops hold the whole thing together. I like where this is going. But sliding out the side 24" puts the light in about the same place we can get with the Y axis rotation, which leaves the hitch area dark. Position these sliding rails parallel to the stock rails and the light extends backward...could get light down to the hitch, but you hit the raised glass. How about both? 4 lights, 5 bars (1 for each light and 1 that spans the gap between the rails)?

Although, in all honesty, I'm not entirely sure that coming 2' straight back from the rear-most mounting point on the stock rails is going to clear the rear of the truck and actually give us light onto the hitch. It'd be in the area, but I'm not sure you're going to see the ball. I'll measure tonight.

I'm going to draw this sliding railey thing up tonight or tomorrow. For now...this is Y axis pivot...not my favorite, but I had to draw it anyway to get a good look at it.

kkkustom · **Joined:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:33 am **Posts:** 160

Dude you are on the right track too! I like your renderings too! between the both of us we gota come up with a winner! I am going to PM you... we gota chat some time!

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:30 pm

Dog party's drawing is exactly what I was talking about! Although I think that rotating the lights down past horizontal would put them too close to the body thus blocking some light. Also, I was thinking that using a FLOOD instead of a SPOT light would help with the illumination of the rear. I would aim the lights slightly outwards facing when in the stowed position. This would give the widest illumination behind the jeep. When the lights are flipped to the outrigger position, the illumination point would now be shifted slightly inward facing, possibly helping with trailer mounting and activiities behind the tailgate area.

I still think (of course I do, it's my idea!) that my idea of having a flat stock "resting place" for the light bars would be the simplest design as far as fabrication/cost. It would involve only 1 piece of flat stock with u bolts to the jeep rail, the 2 light bars and lights and 2 pivoting clamps. Additionally, 2 winged bolts near the jeep's centerline (one on each end of a light bar)would serve to hold the light bars down and tight. Very simple to construct.

kkkustom · **Joined:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:33 am **Posts:** 160

ok here they are...

Front mounted...

Rear mounted...

As you can see in this picture, the clamp is so strong that it will hold the weight of the entire bar in the air! Also as I found out the roof bars taper in towards the back of the roof! I did not know this, now i need 2 sizes for front and rear. :roll:

Here is a closer look at the clamps...

I will write up a full decription on my free time at work tomorrow, and post it in the Fabrication section.

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:51 pm

Another thought. Instead of having two 1/2 width bars with the lights in the center, have 2 FULL WIDTH bars which pass each other. Thus the lights would still end up almost full against the stock rails on either side like a conventional light bar. When pivoted up then down, the right side light would end up on the left side of the jeep and vice versa. When folded, one arm would be about an inch infront of the other or offset. Mid ways up, the bars would form an "X". There would be no need for the flat base bar as each light bar could go full width and clamp to the opposite rail. This would simplify construction even further. 4 clamps (or 2 clamps which will pivot and 2 half clamps to just hold the free end to the rail), 2 bars, 2 lights.

This design would give you the maximum extension when flipped out. To describe it a little better, when looked at from the SIDE of the jeep, one light would sit forward of the other light by the width of one bar.

While the "rail and stops" idea is a novel approach and has more adjustability as far as where the lights end up, I don't think it's really neccessary and adds alot of complexity to the design.

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:00 pm

Quote:

Also as I found out the roof bars taper in towards the back of the roof!

KKKustom, by the way, the roof rails taper in towards the back! :wink:

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:46 pm

2 full length bar idea:

I did the lights in color so u can see which light ends up where. Unlike the original 1/2 bar design, the lights end up on opposite sides of the jeep. This design would also allow for full clamping down of the bars to the rails on both sides OR the non pivot side could just have a 1/2 circle clamp with one of those heavy rubber band type things to go around the rail.
It will also allow double the length of the outrigger thus affording a larger illuminated area.
Who wants to build this for me?

1/2 bar idea.

ShadE · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:14 am

wouldn't mounting an internal light be a ton easier? I know the 02s have a cargo area light, but i seem to recall the others are lacking in this department.
I think it would be considerably easier to mount a small fog type light to the roof of the cargo area, and it would shoot light out the back for loading cargo, securing the hitch, or retaleating against tailgaiters while being inconspicuous.

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:17 am

There's always gotta be one in the group who is the voice of reason! :wink:

Actually, I'd rather mount an external than do any inside mods. Don't wanna go cuttin anything up or otherwise messin with the roof liner and stuff. I think once we get to a workable idea it'll be rather simple to implement.

dog_party · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:33 am

Hmmmm, where to start...?

ShadE - That thought crossed my mind more than a few times. It crosses my mind every time my thought process comes up against a design roadblock. But I have a blast finding ways to krawl over those roadblocks. Designing it is more fun for me than using it. :lol:

Catcher - I agree that rotating those Y-rotation bars beyond horizontal (180 degrees) would be bad. We'd lose light and bang the side of the truck. Bad bad bad! I agree completely, a flood light would definitely be more practical in the rear. I'm never going to be going in reverse fast enough to need light pointed 100 yards away. I need an even blanket of light in a 30 yard radius a lot more.

kkkustom - Thanks for the props on my drawings! I posted those completely expecting at least one flame because I whipped them out really quick. :-)

I have a Master's degree in studio art and I've worked as a technical flat sketcher in the past. Anyway, it's the least I can contribute to the worthwhile cause that is LOST design and fabrication.

The new bars look K-A$$! If I had read your original design plans better and known that you were welding the bar to the brackets, I would have warned you about the stock rail taper.

I'll call you and we can brainstorm. But in the meantime...

I did some measuring and position testing last night (picture me standing in a dark driveway with an old broomstick, a flashlight, and a tape measure). I came to the conclusion (right around the same time that Catcher did...10PMish) that 1/2 width bar just isn't going to cut it. A 2' radius just isn't enough to provide the kinda light that we need from a design that we've been working on so much.

So I started brainstorming full bar rotation. I started with the Y-axis rotation, but quickly ran into a logistical problem. The depth of the light itself makes this concept incredibly complicated (at the very least) . When the bars are laid flat, the light(s) will overlap the other bar(s). Does that make sense? In other words, to rotate the first bar up and away, you'd have to move the second bar (at least the light on the second bar) out of the way first. But you can't move the second bar before you move the first bar, that's why I'm calling it "the first bar"...'cause it's gotta move first. So the resolution to this is to mount the lights in drastically fore and aft (of the center bar) alternating positions. Not the prettiest concept.

So I started thinking about the X-axis bar, which wasn't a big jump since it's admittedly my favorite design. With an approx 4' radius, the X-axis pivot design is almost perfect! Check it out...

RaeRae1616 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:23 pm **Posts:** 124

dog_party, I gotta give you props . . . your sketches are quite nice and very illustrative. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to illustrate what was in my mind much . . . but you've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I was thinking with one addition, I was not thinking of full length bars, but only half lenght with a solid bar for the re-inforcement and clamping ability when in the closed position.

As you have illustrated you have a much greater range of functionality with the X axis design.
And if it simplifies design any (maybe not) then the light need only rotate around the bar 180 degrees... to attain all of the useful angles.

And, with a little thought I think you could even set up the brackets, to which each light will mount, in a way that the lights line up and look very nice. Per your illustrations, the bracket on the red (inner) bar could positiont the light more forward to line up witht he bracket hold the light on the green (outer) bar.

I can hardly imagine the uses this setup would have . . .

Excellent Illustrations!

80% of the work is planning & desgin, the rest is easy . . .

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:30 pm

I see what u r saying about the bars/lights overlapping on my design. That's why I would put one light/bar in front of the other by the distance neccessary to clear. From the rear you really wouldn't see the difference. From the side you would only notice it if u were tall enough to have a line of sight directly across the top of the roof!

At least it does away with the flat support as well as having to design a pivoting light mounting bracket which would add complexity and possibly get floppy. It's a much simpler design.

2 interesting design attempts though.

snowsport · **Joined:** Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:52 pm **Posts:** 1211

Great ideas and fantastic drawings. An idea just occurred to me: what about mounting the lights on sliding rails, and just have the lights pivot on each end? Don't ask me to draw this because it'd look too funny if I did. Of course, sliders would not work in winter because they'd freeze up tight. Just a thought. Keep on designing, guys, and I'll keep on reading...

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:50 am

Dog party,
If ure gonna go with the rotating design, I have an idea for the light pivot end.
Instead of coming up with some type of clamp for the light to mount to which pivots, why not mount the light solidly to a normal light tab which is welded to a regular piece of tube, thus rigid. The key would be to have this tube slip inside of a second tube which would actually be the main light bar. Drill 2 holes directly through both bars so the holes line up and put a pin through this. Remove the pin, allow the light to flip down 180 degrees, the holes line up again and the pin goes back in. This would create a solid mount but still give ability to spin the light 180. Another advantage with this is that if u use that springy, curly sheathed wiring which expands (you know, like CB microphone wire) you could even pull the inner bar out entirely and use it for a handheld spotlight!

The pin could be replaced with a nut and bolt for added security. Placing a big rubber grommet on the tube that the light mounts to at the end nearest the light would then squish up against the outer tube adding some tension and keeping water out.

Light bars

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