Need Divine Intervention!

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:35 pm

What's the status here?

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:11 pm

Hey Racer,sorry for the stall here.

I bought the fuel pump,and am waiting for the filter/head to come in till I try and get her running again.Probably looking at Thurs/Fri before I'll get a chance to work on ole' girl.

I could have tried to get back up and running but figured I'd just wait for the new parts,so she sits awaiting.If it turns out to be bad fuel,I will pay for this decision. :mrgreen:

I'm gonna update when I get around to working on it.

I'm learning alot about my vehicle thanks to you guys.
Much appreciated.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:57 pm

KJ 119 wrote:

Hey Racer,sorry for the stall here.

I bought the fuel pump,and am waiting for the filter/head to come in till I try and get her running again.Probably looking at Thurs/Fri before I'll get a chance to work on ole' girl.

I could have tried to get back up and running but figured I'd just wait for the new parts,so she sits awaiting.If it turns out to be bad fuel,I will pay for this decision. :mrgreen:

I'm gonna update when I get around to working on it.

I'm learning alot about my vehicle thanks to you guys.
Much appreciated.

Do you still have that jug of fuel that you bled off? You can run a paper-towel-test on it to see if you DO have a batch of dodgy fuel or if it is OK.

Pour some of the fuel into a small cup or pan. Dip a single paper towel (a decent 12" square one like Bounty or Brawny, not that thin industrial crap) into the fuel and then remove it. Let it drain off a little, but do not wring it or allow all the fuel to drain off. Drop the towel in a heap (so it is bunched or wrinkled, not flat) onto a paved / concrete surface. Light it with a match or barbecue lighter and let it burn.

You are looking to see how long and how well the paper towel burns. These are approximate times and reactions that you might see:
Gasoline as fuel: Vapor ignites almost by looking at it wrong, burns VERY quickly and without a lot of smoke. Consumes the paper towel rapidly. Less than 2 minutes to flame-out.
Diesel as fuel: Difficult to ignite, no vapor ignition. Burns slow and smoky, ash lifting off with heat, taking the paper towel eventually (after wicking all the diesel out of the towel) for about 4+ minutes to flame-out.
Biodiesel as fuel: Close to impossible to light, no vapor at all to ignite. Burns extremely slow and still smoky with ash, but takes FOREVER to start actually burning the towel off after wicking every last drop from it. 15 minutes to flame-out.

Any snapping / crackling or smoke other than black indicates contamination by something else in the fuel. I don't think that will be your discovery however.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:23 pm

I tell ya,you learn somethin new everyday. :rockon:

Cool beans Geordi,will definitely give it the flame test.

I will try and get around to putting the parts on tomorrow if I get off of work at a decient time.The filter head and filter came in today(thanks to changingtime for the deal).

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:30 pm

Got the new fuel head in and pump installed.
Primed the best I could till it got dark on me.Also turned the key to engage pump and cracked the bleeder fitting till all air came out.
Turned it over and still vapor in the lines,so tomorrow I will try to bleed it at the injectors like Keith suggested.

Do I bleed it from the compression fitting where the hard pipe goes into the injector?
Right hand thread or left,and should I use two wrenches,or just one on the top fitting(the silver one).There is a lower fitting that is brass colored and appears to have left hand thread markings.

:dizzy:

Sooooo close!

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:48 pm

One shot of either... no more.

Turn the key and try to start it, stay by the ignition key all the while the engine is on so that you can quickly shut it down if you hear the it racing up loudly. Lite knocking is ok and will eventually smooth out. When the fuel ignites, just let the engine run until all the white smoke is gone, lots of white smoke, lots..... you should be back in business when it’s done.

That is how I did it.

Make sure the battery is charged and kept under charge while you crank...... my optima died out quickly.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Bub,

Bleed each injector one at a time if necessary, one may get the job done. You need to loosen the compression fitting at the injector. It is a standard right-handed thread and requires a 17mm open end wrench. The smaller fitting on the injector body is a 13mm, this one should not loosen so you need to keep an eye on it. One person should be cranking while the other the managing the injector lines.

Ether won't do any good if fuel is not being delivered to the injectors and should not be necessary.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:44 pm

Quick note on the filter head: with the pump in place and functioning, you shouldn't need to prime the head. If you like, you can open up the bleeder a little with the ignition key set to "on" and you'll pump will auto-bleed it for you. Make sure you attach some vinyl tube to it so you don't splash fuel all over the side of your engine.

The high-pressure pump is self-bleeding (for small amounts of air, I assume). Once you ensure your injectors have fuel getting to them, then removal of air all the way from your new pump to the rail should take place automatically and the gasses be shunted back to the tank in the return line. I haven't touched the primer bulb in two years

also, I have the original head. It's seeping a tiny bit of fuel out, but not enough to drip, just enough to make be still want a racor filter when I get some spare time to install one..

Dan

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:13 pm

Did residential electrical work today and it SUCKED!
Haven't done residential in years and it sucked as much as I remembered.

Anyway,I got off of work and blead the filter head with a piece of clear tubing and let pump run till all air was gone.Blead cyl1 injector,and cyl2 injector.Inj 3,snd 4 were too tough to get to with all the stuff in the way.I even tried to bleed the supply going to the rail.
Started it up and ran with loud knocking.Let it run for about a minute waiting for the air to clear/knocking to stop.Did this three times,(each time turning it off saying to myself"This is more than a light knocking").
Wish I had someone to tell me:
That knocking is normal under these circumstances.
Or
Dude turn it off,that ain't right!

Should the air/knocking smooth out after a minute of running,or not necessarily?

Frustration is setting in.Bonnie comming straight for us doesn't help any either. :banghead:

Beer Time! :5SHOTS:

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:46 pm

Just keep purging it, It does smooth out, just let it run. mine ran for 90 minutes before the engine tapered off and all of the white smoke was gone.

I tought I was going to lose the beast but she is back to normal.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:39 pm

Went out today to try and beat the rain and tried to bleed the injectors,but it was starting on me making it hard to keep the wrenches on,so decided to try with injectors unplugged.That didn't work for no fuel came out.
Tried unpluging the injectors one at a time and turning it over,and seemed to make it worse for each cylinder.
I'm pulling at straws on this troubleshooting stuff.

Had my wife take a vid with her phone ,hopefully this will help.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:12 pm

Have you checked around the exhaust manifold for an exhaust leak? That sounds. . . terrible - but it doesn't sound like metal-on-metal knocking, either.
:?:

If the pistons struck the valves and crushed the rockers, it shouldn't run at all, which it seems to in the video.

Is it possible that it jumped time - maybe just one tooth - without crushing the valve train?

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:52 am

That sounded like mine before all the knocking tapered off. At the beginning the knocking sound was very loud, 5 times louder than your video sounded and I thought I was going to lose the engine but then it slowly tapered down. The local diesel mechanic at FleetGaurd told me that a little knocking wasn't going to hurt my engine and to keep the engine running until all the smoke was gone.

I had lots of white smoke out of the exhaust that slowly tapered off.

I tightened the injectors and let the engine run. It took a while before it calmed down and the knocking stopped.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:53 am

That was a good video. I can't wait to hear how this works out. I hope you get it going. I would crap my pants if my Jeep sounded like that, so I hope everyone is correct with their advice. This may save all of us small heart attacks if this happens to us and this is the solution.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:37 pm

Well, I just got off the phone with BO "KJ119" and regretfully I must say that his issue is different than mine. I experienced white smoke blowing out the exhaust but he has not and the issue has not gone away. So what I experienced may not be what BO is experiencing and more assistance is needed.

Hopefully someone else has an idea as to what it is.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:20 pm

racertracer wrote:

Make sure the battery is charged and kept under charge while you crank...... my optima died out quickly.

A dually would help in this situation:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=50594

linewarbr wrote:

Is it possible that it jumped time - maybe just one tooth - without crushing the valve train?

What Sam Beckett said.

Big Montana wrote:

I would crap my pants if my Jeep sounded like that.

I've been changing my droors twice a day.

I feel like I'm writing in a dang journal.
Well anyway,today I talked to Racer and decided to go and get some fresh fuel to purge fresh fuel through the lines.I got back with the fresh fuel and filled 1/3 of a glass with new fuel,and 1/3 of a glass with old.Side by side they looked and smelled exactly the same.
I poured a bit of gas in one of the cups of diesel and the smell was strong of gas.
Canceled out bad fuel.
Up untill this point I wasn't comfortable letting it run like Racer had suggested,but I finally reached that point.
First I let it run for ten minutes.At first it was shakey and needed a bit of pedal to stay running.After a minute it stayed running on it's own,so I could get out and inspect.
At first I stood away so's not to get hit by something shooting out of the top of the engine.After about five minutes I ventured in for a closer look.
The noise appeared to be comming from (facing the engine bay) the bottom right,while Racers sound was comming from the top left.
After I turned it off,I inspected this area of the engine to see if there was anything out of the ordinary,and found nothing.Checked motor mounts and were fine.
I started it back up to try and narrow down the noise.I put my hand on everything I could and could not feel the banging from anything.I ran my ear all around the engine bay trying to pinpoint.
I couldn't pinpoint it,but the loudest I could hear it was in the last slot in the grill(all the way to the right) down low.That was where the percussion of the knock was loudest.

<shrugs shoulders>

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:27 pm

racertracer wrote:

Well, I just got off the phone with BO "KJ119".

It's Bub,sounded like you were saying Bub. :ROTFL:

Seriously,when your name is Byron and your nickname is Bub.....you'll answer to anything. :mrgreen:

Thanks for the help Raff.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:10 pm

I stand corrected.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Bub,

I listened to the video and it is certainly not a fueling issue. When it was running is there a CEL on and have you been able to check the fault codes? I can ship you a DRBIII (dealer scan tool) to check all the codes if you want. With the timing one tooth off it will not run like this. You mentioned that unplugging each cylinder while running (one at a time) it showed an rpm/load difference...is this correct? To me it is running like a few rocker arms are broken and not opening all the valves. I hope a glow plug did not drop into a cylinder. With the DRB you can run a compression test, cylinder cut-out test and cylinder balance test, which could give us some insight.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:32 pm

Maybe you didn't notice Keith but is CRD is a 06 so if you take a look to this link they suggest a wiTECH, StarMOBILE or StarSCAN scanner to perform those test on is Jeep. :cry:

I wish there wrong.

http://akamai-public.dealerconnect.chrysler.com.edgesuite.net/en/downloads/files/VehicleDiagnosticToolRefChart.pdf

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