A very difficult decision??

rubicondon53 · **Joined:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:37 am **Posts:** 15

We just completed our vacation @ Moab. I've been building up my Rubi, & excursion trailer for two years in preperation for the trip.. Needless to say, my wife & I had a blast.. Camped @ Arches for 5 nights, wheeled and hiked every day, spent 2 nights in the Needles, wheeled and hiked every day, and finished up spending 3 nights on the White Rim Trail, then hiked the Horseshoe Canyon to see the "Great Wall". Here is our dilemma... We live 2200 miles from Moab. The Rubi is weak @ best on the interstates. Headwinds forced me to drop down to 3rd gear @ 3200 rpms just to maintain 55 in the 70 speed limit..I dont even want to mention that on the entire trip we averaged about 12 mpg. We own a KJ CRD,,, I can wait, and hopefully swap a diesel into the Rubi, or sell the Rubi, & build up our CRD for the long range expeditions we enjoy,, the swap will cost around 9k.. If I build the CRD,,, rear locker, (Ox locker?) solid front axle??, lift, (33s would be nice), roof rack, winch bumper, rear rock bumper, all skids, etc etc.. What is a good ball park number to make it a worthy off road beast? I'm good with wrenches, but will let a pro do the locker & the solid axle swap if needed.. Any input will be greatly appreciated to help us with this difficult decision... Thanks

OldSkull · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:24 pm

I'm no expert but in my book nothing come close to a Rubicon for off roading in the Jeep line, you got the best "Starving" rig hands up! If I have to swap a engine in a Rubicon I swap a HEMI not a VM motori! The new one can run on 6 or 4 cylinder on HW but the plain Hemi is not so bad on mpg. (maybe a bit better then a 3.7 or 3.8

)

Of course there is no miracle solution when your rig got the CX of a concrete wall and roll on big fat donuts :mrgreen:

CIMARRON13 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:49 pm

I just got rid of my Rubicon for a CRD. I wheeled in Moab and Colorado many times and hated that trip coming from Austin getting 12 MPG and driving with 6" of lift on 35s. I had 4.88 gears on my second Rubicon which made it way better to drive on hills. Besides Prichett Canyon, which also ended the life of my first Rubi, I realized I was driving places to hike and explore more often than hardcore wheeling. I do have my Jetta TDI for long trips but it only gets you so far and I like to get off the road. The CRD with a lift will be a comfortable and economically fueled vehicle that can get me most places I want to go. I have seen many get over the majority of the mountain passes in Colorado with no problem.
If you are looking for a diesel Rubicon check out AEV conversions. They have them.

jeep4life7 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:50 pm

OldSkull wrote:

I'm no expert but in my book nothing come close to a Rubicon for off roading in the Jeep line, you got the best "Starving" rig hands up! If I have to swap a engine in a Rubicon I swap a HEMI not a VM motori! The new one can run on 6 or 4 cylinder on HW but the plain Hemi is not so bad on mpg. (maybe a bit better then a 3.7 or 3.8

)

Of course there is no miracle solution when your rig got the CX of a concrete wall and roll on big fat donuts :mrgreen:

my dads grand cheroke with a hemi gets about 22 mpg in town

fastRob · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:58 am

rubicondon53 wrote:

We just completed our vacation @ Moab. I've been building up my Rubi, & excursion trailer for two years in preperation for the trip.. Needless to say, my wife & I had a blast.. Camped @ Arches for 5 nights, wheeled and hiked every day, spent 2 nights in the Needles, wheeled and hiked every day, and finished up spending 3 nights on the White Rim Trail, then hiked the Horseshoe Canyon to see the "Great Wall". Here is our dilemma... We live 2200 miles from Moab. The Rubi is weak @ best on the interstates. Headwinds forced me to drop down to 3rd gear @ 3200 rpms just to maintain 55 in the 70 speed limit..I dont even want to mention that on the entire trip we averaged about 12 mpg. We own a KJ CRD,,, I can wait, and hopefully swap a diesel into the Rubi, or sell the Rubi, & build up our CRD for the long range expeditions we enjoy,, the swap will cost around 9k.. If I build the CRD,,, rear locker, (Ox locker?) solid front axle??, lift, (33s would be nice), roof rack, winch bumper, rear rock bumper, all skids, etc etc.. What is a good ball park number to make it a worthy off road beast? I'm good with wrenches, but will let a pro do the locker & the solid axle swap if needed.. Any input will be greatly appreciated to help us with this difficult decision... Thanks

There are quite a few frustrated owners here. I really like the diesel but the Liberty has limits. There is something about the oil pan in the VM that does not allow a move over to the JK. Like a previous poster suggested, AEV has a new VM package but it is pricy. Have you thought about a supercharger for the Rubicon?
That said, I took mine moose hunting here in Maine a few years back and I was very satisfied with the Liberty. Only thing is I had to take the trailer hitch off, because I kept getting hung up on it.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:50 am

I personally would not SAS the Liberty CRD and build it that much. By the time you do all that... you've sunk several thousand dollars into a rig and then you have completely defeated the entire purpose of the diesel engine which is power and fuel efficiency. All that extra weight from the axles, tires, and the extra lift height will suck both the power and efficiency out of the vehicle. If you are going to do all that.... you're much better off selling the KJ and doing an engine swap into the TJ.

OR... what I would do is build the KJ moderately. Like.. a 2.5" lift, mud tires, armor everywhere... then take it out and see how it suits you. Lots of people are surprised at how capable the KJ can really be.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:14 pm

Buy a trailer and tow the Rubicon to Moab behind the CRD.

Glend · **Posted:** Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:51 am

Don't believe that oil pan stuff. There are thousands of JK Wranglers running around in Australia with the VM 2.8L engine. My son and I just completed a long two week Simpson Desert Trip and his JK Unlimited CRD was able to return equivalent economy figures to my KJ CRD. His best was about 9.3L/100kms and mine was 8.8L/100kms (or in your terms 25.3 & 26.73MPG).

FYI the stock VM2.8L in the JK Wrangler puts out 460nm of torque (339.3 ft/lbs). While my KJ CRD is running the GDE Eco TUne, which produces similiar figures. GDE is about to make its JK Wrangler CRD tune available in Australia which should see the torque figures pushed above 500nm. Who needs a Hemi, you just need to get Chrysler Jeep to sell the JK Wrangler CRD in the US - crazy that it isn't.

rubicondon53 · **Joined:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:37 am **Posts:** 15

I've done quite a bit of research, and it looks like the best thing out there right now is the cummins 4bt,, a bit pricey, but a whole lot less expensive than buying a new rig, or a LR Defender 90/110 with a diesel. Maybe Chrysler will get it together and offer up the CRD in a crate/swap kit for the Rubi,, Just can't see ourselves in the Liberty for long term excursions, when the Rubi has everything 'cept a good engine......

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:08 am

Glend wrote:

Don't believe that oil pan stuff.

Dude, its true. The KJ oil pan has clearance issue with the JK. Ya they are both 2.8 engines and are very familiar, but enough stuff is different between them that putting a KJ diesel into a JK is a very tricky proposition.

Without knowing the details myself, I can only suspect that its a similar issue as putting the KJ diesel into an XJ, gotta move the engine way way back to clear the front axle(to the point of having to modify the firewall).

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:22 am

A 4bt would be really nice :twisted:

Glend · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:06 am

Sam I was not suggesting a KJ CRD engine, but a JK CRD. Yes internally (VM2.

they are nearly identical but there are slight external differences in the KK CRD and JK CRD engine configuration and the oil pan maybe one (although the JK CRD has the engine mounted much higher in the vehicle that the KJ and KK. The parts are certainly available to do the job.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:34 am

Glend wrote:

Sam I was not suggesting a KJ CRD engine, but a JK CRD. Yes internally (VM2.

they are nearly identical but there are slight external differences in the KK CRD and JK CRD engine configuration and the oil pan maybe one (although the JK CRD has the engine mounted much higher in the vehicle that the KJ and KK. The parts are certainly available to do the job.

Unfortunately KK and JK CRD engines are in very short supply here in the US.

Glend · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:57 am

There is no supply problem - there are truck loads of them in Toledo for export models. People need to convince Chrysler Jeep there is a viable market in the US.

We're expecting to see the J8 CRD civilian version here within two years, and that's my next Jeep.

A very difficult decision??

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