Need Divine Intervention!

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:17 pm

I was talking to Tonycrd through PM and here is something he suggested.

tonycrd wrote:

Here's an idea: remove the oil filler cap. Start it up. If it blows smoke and does 'psst' 'psst' out of the filler neck you have a broken piston. Or a damaged cilinder sleeve...or both...

Well I went out there and ran it and took the oil filler cap off and got some light smoking that got hard to see after a few seconds,so I put my hand over the cap for a few seconds and smoke would come out each time I lifted my hand.Not a heavy smoke like out of the tailpipe,but more of a light misty smoke.Also there was no pressure.
I couldn't hear any 'psst' 'psst' ,with all that banging going on.
I called Racertracer to see if his would smoke in the same manner,and he got no smoke with very minimal pressure.

Should I attempt a compression check through the glowplugs :banghead:

,or is there anywhere to rent the compression tool(not thinking so).

:5SHOTS:

shaggyislandboy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:35 pm

Sorry I am late to find this out Bub!
So sorry to hear of your recent luck Bub. Wish I knew something to tell you to help.

Only thing I will say, is that the wife shouldn't have too much room to get mad.... after hearing what happened to the roof rack and rails :banghead:

Good luck my friend.
What a sad day!

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:29 am

Sorry but I am out of ideas. After you did the filler cap check it shows you do not have any heavy compression loss through a piston. So...the banging is most likely valve related after all.

Get ready: time to pull the cams...

Do you have the CRD FSM?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:29 pm

I don't know about that Tony.

I know it has been a few days since I posted in here, I've been working on a film shoot and exhausted. But I have been following along. The code for a cylinder misfire is why I don't think there is a valve problem, but I could be wrong.

Bub, do you have a scanner that can read the fuel pressure while the engine is running? I know the scangauge can read it, and it might not be the worst to check the pressure out. You might be having a cylinder misfire b/c of low pressure in the rail, possibly caused by air / bad fuel damaging the CP3. The rail "should" be supplying fuel to all 4 cylinders at the same rate, but if the rail pressure is marginal due to a weak pump, when the #1 cylinder opens, the pressure might drop to a level that only allows the fuel to drool out of the others, rather than spray properly for ignition.

Its just a thought, and something that you might be able to test before ripping the front of the engine off and having to re-do the timing. I know that digging that pump out would be easier than pulling the head, even tho both require pulling the timing belt.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:21 pm

Earlier in this thread someone posted that the CP3 fuel pump is an all-or-nothing type of pump - either it works or it doesnt. Seems that one wouldn't fire when 3 don't if that was the problem.

However, I'm out of ideas, too, so. . . . ?? Maybe try another 2006 ECU? At least rule that out before tearing into the engine. I would say a compression check would be in order before tearing in as well.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:32 pm

yeah, that was me. If the pump supplies insufficient pressure the sensor on the rail would notice that and it just wouldn't start.

As I told Bub through a pm, it's very difficult diagnosting his problem from so far away. But we tried injectors, we can rule out pistons, so ...valve trouble probably.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:36 pm

The fact that the knock came back when injectors were reinstalled/with compression,tells me it's not the CP3.Seems it would be internal or else wouldn't get knock when priming the rail/turning over.
As far as the ECU,I could unplug the ECU,and the knock will remain while turning over so I'm guessing we can rule out the ECU.Correct?
Tony,would it smoke more than what I wrote in the last post if there were a problem like you discussed?It did keep smoking lightly where Racer's didn't smoke at all.

Thanks guys.

shaggyislandboy wrote:

Sorry I am late to find this out Bub!
So sorry to hear of your recent luck Bub. Wish I knew something to tell you to help.

Only thing I will say, is that the wife shouldn't have too much room to get mad.... after hearing what happened to the roof rack and rails :banghead:

Good luck my friend.
What a sad day!

Hey Shags!
Don't worry about me,I'll be just fine.Hope all is well for you and Kelly up yonder.
I miss you brutha,take care.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:27 pm

I wouldn't expect it to turn over at all with the ECU unplugged... But if it does, and still bangs, then I guess that rules out pretty much everything other than the head. Crap.

I have that complete head, with all the rockers where they should be, if you need it. Right now, I'm interested to see just WTF is causing this noise once and for all. Why it wasn't making noise without the injectors in place... That is the stumper.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:55 am

KJ 119 wrote:

Tony,would it smoke more than what I wrote in the last post if there were a problem like you discussed?It did keep smoking lightly where Racer's didn't smoke at all.

If you had a piston problem it would let compressed air/ combustion pressure / exhaust fumes pass into the sump. Therefore PCV pressure would rise and you should easily be able to feel / see that if you take the filler cap off. (would look like the exhaust of a one cilinder dirt bike)

A little smoke doesn't bother me that much...

One last try:

I know you've done this before but I couldn't quite understand what exactly happened. Let it run, disconnect injector #4. If there is no drop in revs than there is nothing happening in that cilinder.

(while your at it, do 1, 2 and 3 also)

Let us know what it does, like this:

Cil 1: drops from 850 to 500 revs
Cil 2: from 850 to 450
etc.

BTW: How's coolant level ?? Engine oil level??

ihatemybike · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:48 am

Hey Bub, been watching this thread and got to thinking. Maybe VM Motori can help you. Found this.

vmmotori.it website wrote:

After Sales - Automotive Product:
If you have any service questions or problems,
please contact Nicola Frabetti
nfrabetti@vmmotori.com

Allen M. · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:16 am

What about the valve timing, IF one of the cams jumped a tooth it might still run, badly, but still run. I had a old gasser do this to me and i just replaced and retimed. Anyway, look to the valve timing guide from GDE and just pop off the two ports for the pins, timing the engine with the hex key in the flex plate, you should be able to see both holes in the cam for the pins, if not try turning the engine 360° and look again. IF you only see one pin hole, a timing party is ahead.

Good luck, many of us are watching and crossing our fingers.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Allen M has a good suggestion for checking the timing prior to removing any intake hardware. It still will not verify if the valves are opening properly, but it will remove one variable.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:59 pm

Ok Tony,here are the results of the Advanced Cutout Test :
Engine idled at about 750 throughout the entire test.

Injector 1 - Unplugging caused engine to run rough(jumpy) with noise staying the same.
Plugging back in caused engine to run the way it is.

Injector 2 - Unplugging bogged the idle down a bit for about a second or two then continued to run at 750 with Bang sound quieter.
Plugging back in caused a strain on motor(like an big a/c compressor kicking in),with noise back the way it was and idle staying 750.

Injectors 3&4 -Unplugging bogged the idle down a bit for about a second or two then continued to run like I hadn't unplugged it.
Plugging back in reved up idle a bit for about a second or two,then back to 750 and running same.

Coolant level looks fine.
Oil was about a quart low at the time.(showed up half way between low and bottom of dipstick).Checked oil for contaminants and none showed up.

ihatemybike wrote:

Hey Bub, been watching this thread and got to thinking. Maybe VM Motori can help you. Found this.

vmmotori.it website wrote:

After Sales - Automotive Product:
If you have any service questions or problems,
please contact Nicola Frabetti
nfrabetti@vmmotori.com

Hey thanks Aaron,I hadn't tried this route.I did call VM North America and was told to talk to my dealer. :roll:

I will have to try this route and overcome my fear of E-Mailing.I've only done it twice.

Allen M. wrote:

What about the valve timing, IF one of the cams jumped a tooth it might still run, badly, but still run. I had a old gasser do this to me and i just replaced and retimed. Anyway, look to the valve timing guide from GDE and just pop off the two ports for the pins, timing the engine with the hex key in the flex plate, you should be able to see both holes in the cam for the pins, if not try turning the engine 360° and look again. IF you only see one pin hole, a timing party is ahead.
I really need to brush up on my Greek. :oops:

Good luck, many of us are watching and crossing our fingers.

Hey thanks for the good will Allen.You guys hang in there with me and we'll get this tractor fixed.

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

It could still be a a piston problem with no blowby issues. The wristpin could be at fault causing knocking under compression that you didnt hear with injectors out. If you do a compression test and its within spec I place my bet on the wristpin. Cam timing maybe but I think you would have far more problems with that.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:15 pm

Bub,

I know your CRD is probably going to be tied up for a while so would you be interested in this Temporary vehicle?

She gets great gas mileage and crosses shallow rivers like a tug boat.

Here she is:
[img

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KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:36 pm

Think mabe we could do an engine swap?Might be more reliable.
That thing run on Bio?

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:44 pm

That was funny Racetracer.... :-)r

seriously I have been watching this thread with hope it will be fixed and well some horror too....... I sure don't want this to happen to my CRD. I am hoping you figure it out Bub and soon. I've got my fingers crosssed for ya here.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:45 pm

KJ 119 wrote:

:ROTFL:

Think mabe we could do an engine swap?Might be more reliable.
That thing run on Bio?

Just turn it loose in your yard..... you won't need to mow then

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:52 pm

KJ 119 wrote:

That thing run on Bio?

She sure does.... It's called BIOFUEL and you can get a confirmation of that from the exhaust fumes.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:38 pm

Ok, so we now know it's cilinder #2 that's causing the problem...

We can rule out belt timing because it runs pretty good aside from the noise. Can you pull the oilpan off? It may be a bearing...

You guys call it a conrod. Taking the oilpan (sump, carter, whatever) off is much easier then the head.

Need Divine Intervention!

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