overheating????

naturist · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:12 pm

MIne needed three things for an overheating fix: (1) reflash to recalibrate the sensor/guage; (2) replace the fan clutch -- engaging too late; (3) replace the thermostat.

It was overheating when the temperature was above 85F and I was towing a travel trailer against a headwind or uphill.

Those three items solved the problem.

For what it is worth, you can't determine if the fan clutch is working right except by listening for the fan to engage. There is no doubt when that happens, because the fan makes a loud-you-can't-miss-it noise. The original one kicked in when the gauge got to one notch below "H" and the new one kicks in just before the gauge hits the 3/4 mark. And there is no mistaking the noise, even at speed on the open road.

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

yea thats sounds good what dos any one think about the fixed flexed flex fan instead of replacing the fan clutch??? and what about a colder thermostat???

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:27 pm

The fixed fan is a simple, reliable solution, but it bypasses the factory method of reducing fuel consumption by decoupling the fan when not needed. How much fuel isn't known yet, there needs to be more testing. It could be insignificant.

A colder thermostat won't do anything performance-wise for a diesel like it did for some gassers. Plus there are none available unless yours wears out and starts opening too early like mine.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:27 pm

Just wondering if you had found a solution or fixed your overheating problem?

I just completed a 580 mile trip from FL to TN.
Ambient temp was around 95 deg and I averaged a speed of 70 mph with A/C on the whole way.
No overheating and I'm pretty sure my fan clutch never engaged. Temp needle stayed just to
the left of center the whole trip.
And this is with my grille still partially blocked.

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

i have not i have been really bisy working thats good to know thats the trip im planing fl to tn in october :JEEPIN:

but still not really sure were to start now???? but i think im probly gonna start with the fan clutch...

Quiksilver · **Posted:** Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:34 am

I too seem to have the failed clutch fan problem.

Only ever a problem idling in traffic when there is limited air flow over the radiator.

What i'd like to know is how do i replace the fan to a flex fan, more specifically how do i get to the actual fan? how do i remove the shroud?

Also, what is the purpose of the electric fan on the front, mine never seems to go on. AC on or off, hot or cold. How do i test. ( I have checked all fuses)
Surely this fan will make a major difference as its pretty big and will push airflow over the radiator directly. Which is where my problem comes in, ie non moving vehicle.

thanks

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

well ur electric fan comes on manly with the ac on but if it gets hot in the engine bay it will also kick on and stay on with ac on or off so that is most likely ur problem

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

and any one that has had or knows the symptoms off a bad torque converter..... when i was braking and stoped it seem to not let go and almost stalled the truck??? would that also be it going bad???

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

That is a sign your lock-up clutch is going bad and not unlocking when it should. If it stays locked when stopping it will drag the engine down to 0 rpm.

Quiksilver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:54 am

toyota jeep man wrote:

well ur electric fan comes on manly with the ac on but if it gets hot in the engine bay it will also kick on and stay on with ac on or off so that is most likely ur problem

Does anyone know how i can test this... i have had engine running with air con on and off and never seems to come on. even when gets hot.

Wonder if both my fans are out of action :shock:

e010584 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:24 pm

You can test the electic fan by simply unplugging the fan relay under the hood. I pulled mine to jumper it and found that it actuallly turned it on.

I was actually trying to troubleshoot my wife's CRD for overheating problems and found out the electric fan on mine was inoperative in the process. Interestingly enough though, mine has never had any problems with overheating but I have noticed the reduced A/C performance when not moving. So I can't imagine the electric fan is a big driver on overheating.

The fan clutch on my wife's is tighter than mine, coming to a stop much quicker when the engine is shutdown. I'm tempted to try the flex fan fix rather than fighting a fan clutch. Hers overheated at the beginning of the summer heading up a long incline from the desert floor in ~110 Deg. F ambient conditions at 70mph with the A/C obviously working hard. We actually got the audible alert before noticing it and the guage was nealy to the H. We managed to take it easy through those climbs and finished the trip with no further issues, although cooler ambient temperatures were realized for the higher elevations. She just ended up with another overheat climbing out of the Verde Valley in relatively high ambient temperatures, so it looks like I'll have to do something. I'm sure if you replace the fan clutch and thermostat it ought to fix most anything, but I'm not convinced both are the problem and suspect it is the fan clutch.

I had tried running it with a blanket over the grill to get an indication of the fan kicking in, but I couldn't get it hot enough probably because our ambient temperatures (at altitude ~8350') were in the 70's. Also interestingly enough, I ran the AC to get more heat into it and the AC even seemed to be still getting really cold.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:43 am

toyota jeep man wrote:

why yes i work on cars and have my 4 of my ase so i know how that works but thank u i was gonna oven test it tomorrow but yes it was deff engaged but after i started driving it turned of so gonna put it in the oven ill let u know how it goes :5SHOTS:

Don't oven test. Follow the manufacturer procedures.

Procedures to check your fan clutch:

Insert cardboard right in front of radiator (behind grill to block off air flow through radiator) and hold engine at 2400 RPM's.
Listen for the fan engagement. You should hear a SIGNIFICANT ammount of air flow change when the fan clutch engages. It is loud and obvious.
Use a scangauge or keep an eye on the coolant gauge and don't go over 225* F (exactly 5/8 mark on the gauge) for the test!!! Should lock up at 195*-205* F, and unlock at 145*-185* F (Per the OEM Jeep Liberty 2.8L Turbo diesel manual).

Gauge temps(thanks to GDE):

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:47 am

toyota jeep man wrote:

i have not i have been really bisy working thats good to know thats the trip im planing fl to tn in october :JEEPIN:

but still not really sure were to start now???? but i think im probly gonna start with the fan clutch...

Do the test listed above. Then if it is bad, you will need to decide on wether you want to replace the fan clutch or go with a fixed flex fan mod that will never fail again and is about the same cost:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51618&start=0 wrote:

ITS GOT A NAME!!! - I call it the FFF Mod - Fixed Flex Fan.

Some of you may have followed this a little on the thermostat ideas topic. I have now got the setup created, so I started a new topic for this:

Heres the basic background.

The fan clutch design on the CRD's seems to wear out rather quickly. In fact, the fan clutch on many of the CRD's has gone out, and most of us didn't have any clue until we went up a hill or towed for the first time in awhile and started running a little hot. Then you either baby it home or are stuck in the middle of nowhere and a replacement part has to be ordered.

Here's my solution:

I just put on the new flex fan and adapter setup I came up with. had to make a spacer (machined 2 1" washers out to 31 mm to allow clearance of fan blades - were too close to accessories). It looks sweet and DEFINITELY moves a lot more air than the factory fan/clutch even when it was locked up.

Definitely louder than a stock fan/clutch that is not locked, but sounds pretty mean and powerful. About the same noise as a fan and clutch thats locked up, a little bit of a smooth whine at high rpms, loudest at 3k rpms, starts to flex at 3K RPM's, probably half flexed at 4K rpms. Quites down a bit from 3k as it reaches towards 4k rpm peak.

I probably should have taken some photos out of the car, but here it is installed. It weighs almost exactly half the weight of the factory setup and is MUCH less rotational mass since it is not as heavy at the outer area of rotation either. All the mass in the flex fan/adapter is very close to the center of the rotational area so it will be interesting to compare economy on this next tank. I am hoping the greatly reduced rotational mass economy gain will outweigh the small loss in economy that will occur due to the fan having a direct connection and not on a clutch setup.

If you tow or are worried about staying cool, this will definitely move much more air and be more reliable than the fan/clutch setup and IT WILL NEVER GO OUT. Most fan clutches on all our jeeps already have (mine was out since I purchased the vehicle at 78K miles). I didn't even know mine was toast untill I pulled it out and found that after a couple turns with my hand it moved freely. This seems to be the case with most of us...we find out when we tow or pull a hill that it was already bad.

After an oven test of 220* and an hour later it still failed and did not grip any different than when cold. It would rotate completely free after a few turns, and could be spun and spin several rotations freely. Thankfully our jeeps cooling system is fairly robust and in the past I only had one issue getting a little hot, even with a bad fan clutch. That is why I wasn't sure it was bad until it was removed and tested.

Anyway, a new fan clutch (just the clutch) is $142.00 from Jeep plus shipping and may go out again in several thousand miles. The problem is you may not know it is bad until you are going up a hill or towing and start overheating as was my case.

This setup comes in at the $100.00 mark including, the Flex fan, the spacer, the adapter, and all hardware and will not go out again.

Here is a profile view:

Part numbers and prices to complete the kit:

Flex Fan - Imperial Part number 223619 - 19" reverse direction High flow flex fan(Advanced auto - free shipping from local store - $28.99):

Adapter - Flex-a-lite part number 851 - 30 mm x 1.5 pitch flex fan adapter (Amazon.com - $43.07 - free shipping):

Washers (used as spacer to allow clearance between engine accessories) - McMaster-Carr part number 93849A112 - (2 needed) (mcmastercarr.com - $4.58 each-2 needed plus shipping cost):

You will also need 4 bolts and 4 lock washers to fit the spacer found at local hardware store.
Total cost about $100. Cheaper than a fan clutch alone.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:41 pm

Just get back from my trip to Detroit to meet Keith of GDE and my CRD was overheating when the temperature was above 85F and I was towing my 3000Pds camping trailer against a headwind or uphill on Toronto heavy traffic highway exactly like Naturist describe. Like kapalczynski suggest I order from my local speed shop the Flex-a-lite adapter but can't find the fan so I pick the Flex-a-lite
1519 (Gold/stanless) expensive but already in stock so what the heck...In fact I got only one problem with this mod and it's with McMaster-Carr service, read there answer to my order...

***Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you.
Thank you, David Ulam McMaster-Carr Supply Co 330-995-5929***

Wow "complexity" to ship me 2 washer... That's make you appreciate doing business with guys like GDE giving services and offer personal time and tool to help everyone here from USA to Australia!

I let you the final word, I'm to busy hunting spacers to repair my Jeep... :ALONE:

OldSkull · **Posted:** Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:55 am

No way! Can't find M30 washer near my place so I decide to call a friend and "beg" for is metal lathe..
I use a metal rond bar and fabricate my spacer, spec are 1 3/4" outside, 1 3/16" inside and 3/8" thickness. Here the result

Total cost is $128 Can, a new clutch fan from the "steeler" is more expensive here.

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

and how do u guys like the fff mod???

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

oooo and what about torque converters what is the best one to buy and most bad booty!!!!

OldSkull · **Posted:** Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:07 pm

Just back from another 1100Km in Gaspésie (Appalaches, Pointe-au-Père)trip with my camping trailer in the worse condition AKA slow traffic, powerful headwind, long period uphill ,my trans lockup in 4th gear for 1h 15 min because of the GDE ECO "torque" tune instead of constantly changing between 3th and 4th gear. The truck never overheats (cool air draft coming from the Saint-Laurent help a lot) and I didn’t replace my clutch fan yet but I take a look today and find out I need special tool to do the job and the fan I pick have 2 ¼” deep blades. I not sure this one fit there without some trimming…I need the exact spec for the Imperial 223619 Kapalczynski use to compare and a way to install this fan without cutting in the shroud….

PS: I get 19mpg carrying 3000pds in the worse condition and I didn’t drive like an old granny!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:59 pm

So you agree the Euro TC and the GDE "full torque Eco tune" makes it a totally different jeep? On our last trip I got two tankfulls at 20.x and the rest were 19.x :BANANA:

And I don't drive like a "Granny" either :JEEPIN:

That was in east coast mountains and some rain too :jester:

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:54 pm

OldSkull wrote:

Just get back from my trip to Detroit to meet Keith of GDE and my CRD was overheating when the temperature was above 85F and I was towing my 3000Pds camping trailer against a headwind or uphill on Toronto heavy traffic highway exactly like Naturist describe. Like kapalczynski suggest I order from my local speed shop the Flex-a-lite adapter but can't find the fan so I pick the Flex-a-lite
1519 (Gold/stanless) expensive but already in stock so what the heck...In fact I got only one problem with this mod and it's with McMaster-Carr service, read there answer to my order...

***Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you.
Thank you, David Ulam McMaster-Carr Supply Co 330-995-5929***

Wow "complexity" to ship me 2 washer... That's make you appreciate doing business with guys like GDE giving services and offer personal time and tool to help everyone here from USA to Australia!

I let you the final word, I'm to busy hunting spacers to repair my Jeep... :ALONE:

I actually just got large washers from lowes and machined the inside of them out on my lathe. Maybe I can order in a few washers and ship them out to anyone needing one. shouldn't cost much.

- Mark

overheating????

Who is online