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 Post subject: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:00 pm 
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http://statter911.com/2010/04/18/the-re ... gulations/

In the corporate world we all have to watch our back sides, what we do, and what we say.
In Government (EPA) and Academia (those who created environmental junk science and lame theories) they can pull it out of their backside, call it fact and never suffer the consequences, even if they are wrong.
The idiots who came up with the requirement that EMS Vehicles have to shut down with no warning to regenerate the DPF for 45 minuets should be sued and prosecuted by the same laws as the Private Sector has to live by, no more exemption or free passes.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Ridiculous :banghead: :furious: :banghead: :furious: :banghead: :furious:

This is a very good reason we need to decrease the size of government. I hope you are headed to the Primaries 9/14/2010 to vote for some new blood.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:14 pm 
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The only reason this story is not on the front page is all of the other Government Corruption grabbing the headlines along with the Politics spewing out of DC.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:26 pm 
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The same rules apply to everyone.
Cops lives are no more valuable than a common citizen, right?
We need more of these en-viron-mental rules to crush out the last bit of hope for our country.
Farmers growing too many veggies in Georgia: http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008 ... mpact.html
We elected these people, we let them create these rules, diesels are smelly. Farmers kill veggies. Loggers kill logs.
Miners are mean to the earth for coal. Shooters kill skeets (round clay targets) don't they?
New De-vice from France, home of the French Fry: Guillotine, a creation that needs some work.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:56 pm 
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I'm actually happy everyone has to deal with diesel regen issue's. Welcome to my world. Now everyone can see how ridiculous this whole thing has become. Confusing warning lights,unavaliable parts,software issues, dealer only repairs,software updates,recalls. You think it's any easier for a truck driver to pull over on the interstate and have to do a regen? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. One more thing, DON'T buy a CAT. We run both CAT and CUMMINS here and CAT just plain sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:22 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
I'm actually happy everyone has to deal with diesel regen issue's. Welcome to my world. Now everyone can see how ridiculous this whole thing has become. Confusing warning lights,unavaliable parts,software issues, dealer only repairs,software updates,recalls. You think it's any easier for a truck driver to pull over on the interstate and have to do a regen? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. One more thing, DON'T buy a CAT. We run both CAT and CUMMINS here and CAT just plain sucks.


Didn't CAT quit the ORT Engine Sales?

If they had any sense the regen should happen when the Driver is going for a dinner break, unless you only do Buffets there is no way you can order and get out in 45 Min. For software updates, they should have a port like a USB port and put the update on a flash drive so the owner can do it at a convenient time when the truck is shut down for an oil change.

Of course Control Freak Acid Head Hippies have no Common Sense, would never do any thing that makes sense and their regulations prove my point.

Don't want to get Political and get the thread locked, but no COW FART CHASERS are getting my vote! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:41 pm 
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I know we are not supposed to talk politics here, but diesels are very political in the USA especially California where they can do more evil things to people in that state then they can do in the other 49. Does California have a magical line painted on their boarder? I hear us NYer's have practically the same boarder paint as well. I bought my first CRD brand new on Ebay at a Jeep dealer in Kokamo Indiana, and registered it with CT. plates for the first year. I guess it polluted less when it was bearing the CT plates and after it was registered as a used vehicle in NY? :roll: :furious: :banghead: :juggle: :ALONE:

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Are these regen cycles only for DPF equipped engines?
Did urea injection get rid of this nuisance?

We have two DPF equipped PowerStrokes at work and they do their exhaust cleaning cycles
while out on the road and have never left us stuck on the side of the road.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:24 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
Are these regen cycles only for DPF equipped engines?
Did urea injection get rid of this nuisance?

We have two DPF equipped PowerStrokes at work and they do their exhaust cleaning cycles
while out on the road and have never left us stuck on the side of the road.


DPF is to control the invisible soot.

Urea is used to reduce the Control Freak Acid Head Hippie Boogie Man Evil Gas "Nitrous Oxide".

What I find strange is the the Control Freak European Hashish Heads (they were on the Organic Hallucinogenic Drugs Not LSD) don't see Nitrous Oxide as much as a problem as CO2. :o :o

I suspect but can not prove that, Navistar who made all but this year's PowerStroke must be smarter than Dilamer Benz who supplied the engines to Freightliner.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:51 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
Are these regen cycles only for DPF equipped engines?
Did urea injection get rid of this nuisance?

We have two DPF equipped PowerStrokes at work and they do their exhaust cleaning cycles
while out on the road and have never left us stuck on the side of the road.


I have heard when you idle a DPF vehicle the media plugs up due to the low temps. While you are driving you have higher temps and better regeneration. Emergency vehicles do alot of idling. A guy with a Sprinter had one plug up from excessive idling, luck for him the $4000.00 repair was under warranty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOhqqyu ... r_embedded

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11031

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Quote:
Didn't CAT quit the ORT Engine Sales?


I believe they are getting back into it with Navistar. The new 16 liter International engine is a Cat 3406 bottom end with a Navistar fuel system. Also heard rumors Cat will have their own class-8 truck. Built by International. Time will tell. I can't see Cat staying out of the OTR engine business for long.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:26 am 
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The original article and this thread are both inaccurate and inflammatory. Blaming the government and academic research institutions for this issue is simply political grandstanding. There is a very solid body of research showing that diesel particulates are known carcinogens [1], and the EPA only mandates maximum exhaust particulate levels. The EPA has nothing to do with the specific DPF systems that manufacturers have developed, except to verify that they meet the particulate exhaust levels.

Developed nations around the world have instituted maximum exhaust particulate levels similar to the EPA's (some are more strict). If you have ever spent much time somewhere that does not have particulate control measures in place, you will certainly appreciate them back at home. Many South American and Asian cities are great examples of why we have the standards here. In addition to the visible filth of the air (a white shirt will turn a shade of brown within one day outside), these place have MUCH higher than levels of respiratory illness [2][3], allergies, asthma, emphysema, and lung cancer than we have here.

As I mentioned, it is left up to the manufacturers as to how they choose to meet the particulate standards. There are many different types of DPF's and different regeneration mechanisms. Not all of them require a "timeout" during the regen process. In addition, there are even single-use (disposable) DPF's for use in applications where regeneration is simply not possible (hazardous atmosphere like mines). The blame placed on the government in the original article is a load of hogwash. The blame should be put squarely on the truck manufacturers and apparatus implementers for choosing a poor DPF design for a mission-critical application. There should also be a dose of blame on the purchasers (F.D's) of this equipment for not doing their due diligence in researching the DPF issue prior to buying the trucks. For them to complain now that its the government's fault is incredibly disingenuous. I think the article is nothing more than some people whining about their buyer's remorse.

[1] http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleven ... 69dies.pdf
[2] http://www.bvsde.paho.org/bvsea/fulltext/ilabaca.pdf
[3] http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/17/4/733.full

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Since we're linking stuff:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/08/califo ... strom.html

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:05 pm 
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CATCRD wrote:


You realize that's an opinion column, right? Quite a bit different from scientific research. The only researched mentioned (not even cited) in that article is regarding premature fatalities due to particulates. While fatalities are often an end result of the effects of chronic respiratory illnesses attributed to particulates, it would be difficult to scientifically link particulates to fatalities due to the timeframe that these things develop. It took many decades before people believed that smoking causes cancer and ultimately, death.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:40 pm 
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How did George Burns live to be 100? He smoked cigars since he was about 16. And how about that global warming science.


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 pm 
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kccrd wrote:
How did George Burns live to be 100? He smoked cigars since he was about 16. And how about that global warming science.


X2 we do not need any pro Gooberment theories around here. Lets blame the Manufacturer for DPF problems, it is all their fault, has nothing to do with tree huggers or the communist regimes controlling America for the last 100 years :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Emergency vehicles should have had an exemption. That would have solved the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:58 pm 
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RAF 3829 wrote:
Emergency vehicles should have had an exemption. That would have solved the problem.


Getting rid of the EPA and CARB would solve all our problems 8)

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:12 pm 
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chrismc wrote:
The original article and this thread are both inaccurate and inflammatory. Blaming the government and academic research institutions for this issue is simply political grandstanding. There is a very solid body of research showing that diesel particulates are known carcinogens [1], and the EPA only mandates maximum exhaust particulate levels. The EPA has nothing to do with the specific DPF systems that manufacturers have developed, except to verify that they meet the particulate exhaust levels.

Developed nations around the world have instituted maximum exhaust particulate levels similar to the EPA's (some are more strict). If you have ever spent much time somewhere that does not have particulate control measures in place, you will certainly appreciate them back at home. Many South American and Asian cities are great examples of why we have the standards here. In addition to the visible filth of the air (a white shirt will turn a shade of brown within one day outside), these place have MUCH higher than levels of respiratory illness [2][3], allergies, asthma, emphysema, and lung cancer than we have here.

As I mentioned, it is left up to the manufacturers as to how they choose to meet the particulate standards. There are many different types of DPF's and different regeneration mechanisms. Not all of them require a "timeout" during the regen process. In addition, there are even single-use (disposable) DPF's for use in applications where regeneration is simply not possible (hazardous atmosphere like mines). The blame placed on the government in the original article is a load of hogwash. The blame should be put squarely on the truck manufacturers and apparatus implementers for choosing a poor DPF design for a mission-critical application. There should also be a dose of blame on the purchasers (F.D's) of this equipment for not doing their due diligence in researching the DPF issue prior to buying the trucks. For them to complain now that its the government's fault is incredibly disingenuous. I think the article is nothing more than some people whining about their buyer's remorse.

[1] http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleven ... 69dies.pdf
[2] http://www.bvsde.paho.org/bvsea/fulltext/ilabaca.pdf
[3] http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/17/4/733.full


Wish I could find the link that tells where all the barrels left over LSD (Not Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel) are stashed for the creative souls to keep their inspiration in Academia, EPA, & CARB. :banghead: :banghead:
But why should I complain, my employer will make gobs of Money off all the new Waste Water Nutrient removal requirements in the next five years. Heck, I should encourage the Acid Head Hippies to keep popping their Sugar Cubes, even in their coffee. :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
As far as putting the Blame onto the Municipalities who buy the EMS Trucks, they are required by law to take bids and since the City Engineers (who check the bid specifications) are Civil Engineers and not Automotive Engineers, the truck specifications are left up to the Sales People and Maintenance department (who are not Automotive Engineers either). Common sense which is never part of Government Operation, would be to have a warning light come on, let the truck finish the emergency, and due the regen after the emergency. Again, the Lawyers write the laws and they listen to the Acid Head Hippies who could not get a job any where else.
BTW: If tree huggers would hug an Osage Orange Tree, they would ban them. :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
All kidding and ribbing aside, why do I care? I have a conscience.

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Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
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Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:41 pm 
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flman wrote:
X2 we do not need any pro Gooberment theories around here. Lets blame the Manufacturer for DPF problems, it is all their fault, has nothing to do with tree huggers or the communist regimes controlling America for the last 100 years :roll:


No "pro Gooberment theories" have been posted here. All that I have posted is scientific FACT. If you have ever worked in a research lab, you would know that it is very arduous work with long days for little or no pay. Researchers go out of their way to double- and triple-verify that their findings are accurate and will withstand peer review. Good research is the lifeblood of any lab. They depend on public and private grant funding, and if they published bunk science, then they'd stop getting their grants renewed. There is zero motivation to make this stuff up, as any errors WILL bite them in the arse.

Problems such as those mentioned in the posted article ARE completely the fault of the manufacturer. When Manufacturer A can make a DPF system that regenerates on-the-fly with no engine shutdown, and Manufacturer B can't pull it off, then Mfr B is clearly deficient. Heck, Manufacturer C even makes a system that doesn't need to run a regen cycle at all. When Jeep makes an SUV that does 0-60 mile in 10 seconds, and Toyota makes one that does 0-60 in 8 seconds, do the Jeep owners blame their slow Jeep on the government for making the speed limit too high? That's the kind of reasoning that's going on here.

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