Thanks for bringing us into this thread...

Now I will say this about government emissions standards...

The U.S. Government has the largest fleet of diesel powered vehicles and only a small fraction
of which have any kind of emissions equipment.
Granted, these vehicles see very few over-the-road miles, but could this be considered a
double standard?

Now, does the chassis builder inform the EMS vehicle builder of any of these potential issues?
No. And they were either unaware or did not care.

The EMS vehicle builder has been buying these chassis for many many years and their only
real concern is the frame attachment points so they can set their body on top. So any
changes to the engine and emissions equipment go largely unnoticed.

Thanks for bringing us into this thread...

There is such a thing as finding common ground with respect to acting 'green' and still maintaining a consumption based society. We try to be conscience about the environment as best as possible given the fact that our services focus on transportation, which is by nature less than the best for air quality. Our tunes lower particulates by about 65% with the ECO tune and only about 50% with the HOT tune (it will only smoke during WOT accelerations for the most part). The 'green' in GDE is mainly for the reduced overall fuel consumption as this is directionally correct to lower HC, CO and CO2 emissions.

The regulations for PM in the US is somewhat complicated and will be even more so in the future. Most of the current regulations cover PM10, with PM2.5 regs coming in soon. When PM2.5 is fully implemented, it will require most gasoline engines to be equipped with particulate traps, which will fuel more costs passed on to the consumer. The interesting aspect of particulates is that the PM10 particles and larger are heavier than air, thus they fall to the ground and are decomposed by the earth to be harmless. It is the smaller particles 2.5 and smaller that can lead to more health issues as these are too light and tend to stay in the atmosphere longer.

The clean air act was a major step to improving air quality in the US, but there comes a point of diminishing returns. We most likely do more damage to our lungs sitting around a campfire (large amount of PM) than driving behind a diesel.

As for emergency vehicles, if my home was on fire I would not want the fire truck to be delayed because the DPF needed regenerated. The manufacturer can implement a passive regen filter, place an active DPF closer to the exhaust, used twin wall exhaust pipes to hold more heat and use post injection to light off the DPF. The only time a DPF needs manual regeneration is if it got plugged due to bad fuel, running too cold exhaust or not the proper space velocity to ensure a good burn. These design considerations are the responsibility of the manufacturer...they will get it right eventually or the warranty bill will put them out of business.

The core issue with active DPFs is the 3-5% fuel economy penalty one must sacrifice. This comes from increased backpressure and also from the additional fueling, engine throttling required to reach 600 C in the exhaust to burn off accumulated soot. A DPF will increase our overall fuel usage, thus the whole part about finding common ground to balance the environment and consumer mindset.

GDE

This thread probably should have been deleted by a moderator many posts ago.

Thank you GDE, good to know you are not some burnt out acid head hippy, other wise you would own a Prius, and be working on technology to make them douchier then they already are. Sorry chrismc, you are still a minority in the diesel world

Another words, "Mods, please save me from putting my foot in my mouth."

I don't think that point is not entirely accurate. The operation of the various DPF systems is VERY well documented in the vehicles' owner's manuals (they're publicly available online, I've read some). I would hope that every time a builder starts building on a new platform they would give a read to what is new and different in that model. The DPF equipment is not the only thing that changes. There are wiring changes, ECU changes, and the DPF equipment itself has all kinds of new requirements for spacing from other components due to the heat generated. Some of the new emissions systems require the addition of Urea fluid for operation. I'm assuming that the builders know this and pass it to their customers so that the customers can operate the equipment correctly. Why should DPF regeneration be any different? If there are any changes that significantly change the operation of the vehicle, the builder is responsible for knowing that and using that information responsibly.

Very few sales people know anything about what they are selling.

That's not really what I got from their response, but to each his own. Plus, I never said I wasn't a minority in the diesel world as a whole. I've only said I wasn't a minority in the CRD owner's world and the passenger diesel world (MB, VW/Audi, Jeep... well I guess that's about it for recent models, sadly). I know full well that most full-size and larger truck owners don't really give a rat's behind about the environment, although I do have quite a few friends that burn BioD and WVO in their fullsizes.



Yeah, not so much at all. I was referring to the pile of crap, er, misinformation in this thread before I posted to it. This thread was a waste straight from the beginning. You can't fix stupid, I tried.

Oh, and the term is "in other words", not "another words".

You said a majority of CRD owners were douchy tree huggers, reread your previous drivel, I am not going to dig it up for you.

And you wish you were saved from constantly defending your know it all self in this thread. The general consensus is, no one agrees with all your B$, crawl back under the bridge and think of your next insult to the CRD community.

Seriously? Can you even read what I've written? There is nothing conflicting in my statements. I'm done wasting my time with illiterate people that can't even generate ONE post that makes sense, much less have even the slightest inkling of an understanding of the scientific process and what constitutes "proof" of something. If I wanted to have a conversation with people that respond to scientific evidence with kindergarten-level name-calling, I'd go to the zoo and start yelling at the baboons. At least there I'd get to soak up some sun. Two people (warp2diesel and flman) do not make a "general consensus", especially if you include all the PM's I've received saying "I support you, but you're wasting your time with those two whack-jobs". While we're at it, let's hear your views on religion. Apparently that's made you pretty unpopular around the schoolyard as well.

1 Learn how to spell "school yard" Mr. Perfect.

"Schoolyard": noun A playground or sports field near a school.

Well your Holy spell checker called it wrong?

Seriously? Can you even read what I've written? There is nothing conflicting in my statements. I'm done wasting my time with illiterate people that can't even generate ONE post that makes sense, much less have even the slightest inkling of an understanding of the scientific process and what constitutes "proof" of something. If I wanted to have a conversation with people that respond to scientific evidence with kindergarten-level name-calling, I'd go to the zoo and start yelling at the baboons. At least there I'd get to soak up some sun. Two people (warp2diesel and flman) do not make a "general consensus", especially if you include all the PM's I've received saying "I support you, but you're wasting your time with those two whack-jobs". While we're at it, let's hear your views on religion. Apparently that's made you pretty unpopular around the schoolyard as well.

BTW, I get lots of PMs from fellow CRD owners asking me for help, and asking about my mods and how they work, how about you?

Seeing as how I don't have a billboard below my name advertising my mods, why would people ask about my mods? I don't spend all my time on here. I've been here two years longer than you, and have less than 1/5 the posts you do.

I do get a ton of questions on the street about my Frankenlift (and about the "broken exhaust manifold" they assume I have since they don't know its a straight-piped diesel). Sometimes I wish I drove a "normal" car so people would let me drive in peace. That wouldn't be nearly as much fun in the mountains, though.

A good point. I'm assuming that you're referencing the military vehicle fleet? That vehicle sector is actually doing a huge amount of research into "greener" alternatives. Some of the most advanced diesel-electric hybrid technology is coming from military investment. There are serial and parallel hybrid versions being tested for nearly every size and shape of military vehicle. They are researching advanced electricity storage systems (lithium-ion batteries and ultracapacitors) as well as alternative power systems (microturbines). These have many advantages on the battlefield beyond the obvious: lower fuel usage, lower noise, lower heat signature, and more power for advanced weapons systems. As they move into these more advanced power systems, I'm sure that the emissions are going down (if for no other reason than less fuel burned). In addition, the military is looking at every sector of its operations to make working conditions healthier for its employees due to ballooning VA healthcare commitments. I'm sure that particulates are not being overlooked.

3 Pretty sad that you have 1/5th the posts, and you put all your effort into beating a dead horse on an argument where the general consensus is in disagreement with you.

1 What about a response on the general consensus count?

2 That shows I am here to be helpful, rather then endlessly debate a topic all alone.

3 Pretty sad that you have 1/5th the posts, and you put all your effort into beating a dead horse on an argument where the general consensus is in disagreement with you.