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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:45 pm 
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chrismc wrote:
flman wrote:
1 What about a response on the general consensus count?

2 That shows I am here to be helpful, rather then endlessly debate a topic all alone. :ALONE:

3 Pretty sad that you have 1/5th the posts, and you put all your effort into beating a dead horse on an argument where the general consensus is in disagreement with you. :ALONE:

I think you need to re-read this thread and count your "general consensus" again. You're completely missing the point of some of the posts. I have 1/5 the post count (1/12 if you go by posts/month-registered) of you because I have a life outside of the internet (60hr/week office job, gut-rehabbing one house, kitchen remodeling another, bathroom remodeling a third, volunteer w/ SAR and EMA, girlfriend, dog, rock-climbing, mountain biking, and camping when there's time left over). I chose to post to this thread because there was piles and piles of completely inaccurate information.


Let me see, Hien Tran "Fake" PHD is your Guru and his cronies are your source of information consisting of mostly Junk Science and you criticize the accuracy of information discussed in this thread. Strange :!: :!: :!:
Let me make a totally wild hypothesis that has much more credence than the tripe of Hien Tran you worship so much; If a Common Rail Diesel engine were run in Beijing China the exhaust coming out of the tail pipe would be cleaner than the air going in.

HAVE A NICE DAY AND DON'T FALL, YOUR EMS VEHICLE MIGHT GO INTO REGEN MODE

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:55 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
If a Common Rail Diesel engine were run in Beijing China the exhaust coming out of the tail pipe would be cleaner than the air going in.

I think you should prove your point by only breathing the exhaust for a CRD. Then you could tell us how clean it is.


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:03 pm 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:
If a Common Rail Diesel engine were run in Beijing China the exhaust coming out of the tail pipe would be cleaner than the air going in.

I think you should prove your point by only breathing the exhaust for a CRD. Then you could tell us how clean it is.


Oh no, that would be to subjective and open to slanted opinion. It would have to be a scientific test conducted by a certified lab. :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

Point less bull crap than Hien Tran "Fake" PHD.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:21 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
Oh no, that would be to subjective and open to slanted opinion.

I am willing to let it slide...

It would be an honor for an expert prove this point once and for all.


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:45 pm 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:
Oh no, that would be to subjective and open to slanted opinion.

I am willing to let it slide...

It would be an honor for an expert prove this point once and for all.


Only an Acid Head Hippie would try it YOUR WAY.
My ISO 9001 training won't allow it.
Sorry ask your buddy.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:59 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
Only an Acid Head Hippie would try it YOUR WAY.
My ISO 9001 training won't allow it.
Sorry ask your buddy.

So what is your preferred method of analysis?


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:46 pm 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:
Only an Acid Head Hippie would try it YOUR WAY.
My ISO 9001 training won't allow it.
Sorry ask your buddy.

So what is your preferred method of analysis?

Data from standard Exhaust gas analyzer should work.
But to be honest, it is a sucker bet. When they ran tests in LA over 12 years ago the new cars of the time that met the 1998 Cal Emission standards put out lower readings for CO and Hydrocarbon than the air going into the Engine. Beijing China is a lot worse than LA in 1998. In fact Beijing China is worse than Gary Indiana was near the Steel Mills in the 1960s before any emissions regulations for steel production existed. The PCV did not come into play in the Federal applications before 1963 ~1962 in Cal.
We have come a long way and China has all the information it needs free for the taking, no learning curve or research needed to get on board and do their share in controlling their own emissions. Besides, they have enough of our money to pull it off, even if they have to buy it.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:29 am 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:
Only an Acid Head Hippie would try it YOUR WAY.
My ISO 9001 training won't allow it.
Sorry ask your buddy.

So what is your preferred method of analysis?


I prefer ISO 8178.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:29 am 
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This might be an interesting thread if people would cite their sources. . . with a usable link.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:42 am 
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warp2diesel wrote:
The PCV did not come into play in the Federal applications before 1963 ~1962 in Cal.


And that is all that needed to be done to the internal combustion engine, beside the electronics and fuel injection have cleaned up these engines for the little bit of pollutants remaining.

chrismc, I know you like to make your own Bio, but did you know that it may be prohibitive to run B100 in diesels made in 2007 and up. Case in point, I got a 2010 Sprinter van, on the fuel filler it says no more the 5% bio. A lot of nay sayers would say you can go higher, but if you knew the electronic wonder this vehicle was, you would not want to risk it, my exhaust has urea injection, and the dpf, it has an EGR that is known to be not very reliable on these vehicles. It is not a question of if your EGR will fail, it is a question of when. Maybe you are all good intentioned to be fossil fuel free, and think you are going to drive that CRD until you die any ways, but that never works out. What are you going to do in the future when you need a replacement vehicle, get mad and say, "Those stupid manufacturers don't know how to design an emission system that will work with bio." If the government was in our best interest, why don't they mandate bio instead of emission controls and fossil fuel? Oops, back to big oil is controlling your hero's in DC ...................

Hey I tried to turn it into a sensible debate, but as long as clueless politicians, and a few shady, brain dead, make a name for them selves scientists are making the rules, this will not be a sensible debate.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:44 am 
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TJ2 wrote:
This might be an interesting thread if people would cite their sources. . . with a usable link.


Have some one do all the work so all you have to do is click the mouse. That is one entitlement our Congress has not voted in yet.
Sorry, I do plenty of work in the Field and do my office work in the field and in hotels at night, so I don't have time to spoon feed the lazy.
If anyone wants everything handed to them on a Platinum Platter, get a job, bust your butt so you are on the very top.
But here is the little secret, you get it handed to you so you can bust your butt even more, not less.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:03 am 
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TJ2 wrote:
This might be an interesting thread if people would cite their sources. . . with a usable link.

That is not how proving your point on the internet works. Generally sarcasm and berating work best.


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:56 am 
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flman wrote:
chrismc, I know you like to make your own Bio, but did you know that it may be prohibitive to run B100 in diesels made in 2007 and up. Case in point, I got a 2010 Sprinter van, on the fuel filler it says no more the 5% bio. A lot of nay sayers would say you can go higher, but if you knew the electronic wonder this vehicle was, you would not want to risk it, my exhaust has urea injection, and the dpf, it has an EGR that is known to be not very reliable on these vehicles. It is not a question of if your EGR will fail, it is a question of when. Maybe you are all good intentioned to be fossil fuel free, and think you are going to drive that CRD until you die any ways, but that never works out. What are you going to do in the future when you need a replacement vehicle, get mad and say, "Those stupid manufacturers don't know how to design an emission system that will work with bio." If the government was in our best interest, why don't they mandate bio instead of emission controls and fossil fuel? Oops, back to big oil is controlling your hero's in DC ...................


I'm very familiar with the biodiesel post-injection oil-dilution issue on some 2007+ vehicles. Not all engine designs use post-injection, but unfortunately the major ones do (VW). It sucks. Yes, I'm going to say "Those stupid manufacturers don't know how to design an emission system that will work with bio", but I also realize that it is not a high priority for them so I need to suck it up and find a different solution that works for me. B20+ is still not a cost- or climate-effective option for the masses, and there is no financial incentive for the manufacturers to spend a lot of money supporting it. Does that make me sad? Yes. Is there anything I can do about it? Nope. Even in the CRD, I was pretty hesitant about running B100 due the new (at the time) engine technology. There were concerns about atomization and injector coking with the new higher-pressure common-rail system. I did quite a bit of research on the issues, and let some other people be guinea-pigs first. DC made it very clear that biodiesel over B5 was not recommended in the CRD, so I knew that if I screwed it up I'd be taking full responsibility for it. If I'm using a product outside of the manufacturer's specs and it breaks, that's my problem. As it turns out, B100 works great in the CRD. Oil analysis comes up cleaner (than petro), engine innards are cleaner (than petro), and it runs much quieter. Performance is slightly down, but its not too noticeable unless I'm flying up a steep grade (GDE to the rescue!). Low-temp performance is still an unsolved problem. I haven't clogged a filter with gelled-fuel yet, but when it gets cold I keep the tank fairly empty and splash-blend with petro. In the winter, I carry a small amount of petro with me, and I always keep a spare filter on hand year-round.

When the CRD dies and its time to switch vehicles, I'll see what's available in the market. Unless something changes drastically, I'll probably be looking for a pre-2007 diesel. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a strong biodiesel future either, though. There is very active research on bio-based fuels, and there is a lot of promise in algal-based fuels that have much better low-temperature performance and yield than plant-based ones. There are two potential "good paths" here: 1) The new algal-based fuels could have characteristics that minimize the oil-dilution problem. 2) The new algal-based fuels might be able to be produced cheaply enough that there will be a biodiesel market presence and the vehicle manufacturers will design new system that work with them. I'm not holding my breath for either option, though. Research, testing, and scaling-up production takes a long time.

I don't know that I would currently support a government mandate for biodiesel. There's no way around the fact that its currently not economically effective. Some emissions have major improvements with biodiesel, but some other important ones are worse. Nitrous Oxides have been shown by varying studies to go both directions (sometimes a significant increase), depending on engine design. I see no reason to lower the emissions requirements that give us clean air and keep us healthy, and I think the manufacturers need to (and will) adapt if there is demand. Obviously, anything local and renewable that could wean us off of the OPEC terrorist teat and switch us away from an extraction-based fuel is a good thing, but I think bio-based fuel for the masses is still a little ways down the road.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:34 pm 
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chrismc wrote:
Yes, I'm going to say "Those stupid manufacturers don't know how to design an emission system that will work with bio".


Around and Around you go, blaming that manufacturer. Chris, our cars already cost too much. How much do you want all of us non Bio burners to have to pay for vehicles, to appease the small minority that burn Bio? US vehicles are designed to run on gasoline or diesel. It is solely up to the government to give the green light to manufacturers, that they should be designing vehicles that will run on Bio. The politicians have their heads up the butts of the oil companies. Obama went on an offshore drilling spree about a month before the gulf oil spill, why did he not say we are going to encourage bio instead of giving the thumbs up to offshore drilling? Because Obama got big campaign money from the oil lobby. Just like Bush. So until they pull their heads out of the butts of the oil companies, expect more of the same, but no real solutions to the oil problem, or the so called, phony, were all gonna die from pollution theories. :roll:

Your best bet would be to take your cause to DC, cause no one in this forum is going to solve your problem. You already have 15% of you total post count going to this thread. Let it die buddy. :dead:

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:48 pm 
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flman wrote:
chrismc wrote:
Yes, I'm going to say "Those stupid manufacturers don't know how to design an emission system that will work with bio".


Around and Around you go, blaming that manufacturer. Chris, our cars already cost too much. How much do you want all of us non Bio burners to have to pay for vehicles, to appease the small minority that burn Bio? US vehicles are designed to run on gasoline or diesel. It is solely up to the government to give the green light to manufacturers, that they should be designing vehicles that will run on Bio. The politicians have their heads up the butts of the oil companies. Obama went on an offshore drilling spree about a month before the gulf oil spill, why did he not say we are going to encourage bio instead of giving the thumbs up to offshore drilling? Because Obama got big campaign money from the oil lobby. Just like Bush. So until they pull their heads out of the butts of the oil companies, expect more of the same, but no real solutions to the oil problem, or the so called, phony, were all gonna die from pollution theories. :roll:

Your best bet would be to take your cause to DC, cause no one in this forum is going to solve your problem. You already have 15% of you total post count going to this thread. Let it die buddy. :dead:


chrismc wrote:
but I also realize that it is not a high priority for them so I need to suck it up and find a different solution that works for me. B20+ is still not a cost- or climate-effective option for the masses, and there is no financial incentive for the manufacturers to spend a lot of money supporting it. Does that make me sad? Yes. Is there anything I can do about it? Nope.
flman, why did you only partial quote him, and then state the same thing he did? Well besides the political rant anyways...

I guess the lesson of this thread, is that it is better to blame the government for all of your problems. I mean, it seems to work for poor people, why shouldn't it work for the rest of us?


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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:58 pm 
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Around and Around you go, blaming that manufacturer. Chris, our cars already cost too much. How much do you want all of us non Bio burners to have to pay for vehicles, to appease the small minority that burn Bio? US vehicles are designed to run on gasoline or diesel. It is solely up to the government to give the green light to manufacturers, that they should be designing vehicles that will run on Bio.


well..its really shouldn't up to the government..Biodiesel is here to stay!!..there is a 2% mandate in Europe. The US truck manufacturers are missing the picture..They just need a fuel system that biodiesel compatible..then use it as a marketing tool..gee something like the flexfuel cars that use ethanol?? sorry I don't consider B5 as compatible..B75-B100 now that compatible.

I agree the Gov't is in bed with 'large' corporations way too much..and not just about oil..

Now is biodiesel a diesel replacement..could it replace 100% of the dino diesel..NO WAY!! but can ethanol replace gasoline? NO!! but but help to reduce the foreign oil consumption. I don't think there is a single solution to replace oil. its not used just for fuels...stop and check what it used to make..we could start with PLASTICS...what in your world doesn't contain plastic??

sorry flman..chrismc has a point its is the manufacturer's fault for not supply biodiesel compatible fuel systems. the US isn't the only country that uses biodiesel..just check.. or stop and think if this sounds familiar.. think LARGE gas guzzling poor quality cars and then Japaneses small cars hit the market..oh I should mention here 2 of the 3 major US car manufacturers nearly went bankrupt(Gov't bailout might have saved them)?? hum..maybe they missed the market.. and only you seem to concerned about post count..

-dkenny

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:28 pm 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
flman, why did you only partial quote him, and then state the same thing he did? Well besides the political rant anyways...

I guess the lesson of this thread, is that it is better to blame the government for all of your problems. I mean, it seems to work for poor people, why shouldn't it work for the rest of us?


1 Do your really think I read every thing he writes?

2 Yes, the government causes more problems then good for all US citizens, rich, poor and in between.

dieseldoesit wrote:
flman, why did you only partial quote him,


Pot, Kettle, Black

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Last edited by flman on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:34 pm 
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dkenny wrote:
well..its really shouldn't up to the government..Biodiesel is here to stay!!..there is a 2% mandate in Europe. The US truck manufacturers are missing the picture..They just need a fuel system that biodiesel compatible..then use it as a marketing tool..gee something like the flexfuel cars that use ethanol?? sorry I don't consider B5 as compatible..B75-B100 now that compatible.
-dkenny


While they are at it, they should make vehicles that run on bees wax too, just for the hell of it, being there is never going to be enough of that to fuel vehicles either. :roll:

Every body wants, but no one ever has a clue of the cost and research it would take to appease such a small market.

It is up to the government to get out of bed with oil companies, and make it a better business climate for Bio Diesel companies to compete. It will never happen in our life times. Other wise, keep on dreaming :5SHOTS:

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:47 pm 
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More good reading

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1682

http://www.globalwarmingskeptics.info/?p=3453

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 Post subject: Re: DPF Regen problems with EMS vehicals
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:56 pm 
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flman wrote:
dieseldoesit wrote:
flman, why did you only partial quote him, and then state the same thing he did?

1 Do your really think I read every thing he writes?

:banghead: That explains a lot of why I felt like I was talking to a brick wall. Not reading things is an excellent way to gain an understanding of a scientific field in which you are not a professional. Its also a very effective and productive way to debate a topic. Who needs to produce a counterpoint when you don't know what the point is to start with!

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