I have the tool, Rented it by paying the full tool price and get the deposit back when I bring the tool back...though I might just keep it if I have it more than 90 days its mine and they won't take it back. It is actually 2 tools...A slide hammer and a pilot bearing attachment that will fit down inside. They were $45 and I get that all back if I bring it back in 90 days. Might even just buy the tool from harbor freight if I can find it cheaper and keep one around. They are handy for wheel bearings, etc too. The only problem is in the AF I move frequently and weight in tools adds up quick.

You're probably right about just getting the new material, and I might even have some thinner (originally I started w/ 1/16"), but I can't remember if it was buna-n or neoprene that I ordered for a first try and neoprene is not as nice of a gasket material for long term.

This is my last 3-11pm shift and I go to holiday schedule and have more time off, but will work 12hr shifts and 7pm to 7am. All in all I should be able to come up with some time to do this project. I really wish I had a shop area instead of the garage. Then I could do more in smaller ammounts of time. Currently I like to wait for larger chunks of time like a whole afternoon, etc. My garage is insulated, but I have to kick the cars out and then its cold...takes awhile to heat it up. Alot of work for a little bit of shop time and a little bit of $ to heat the garage every time. Its best to work when i have more time on my days off. At least untill I can build a little shop/shed to work in. ha ha.

I'm off the next 3 days, I'll see what all I can get done.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Quick update:
I got the new style gasket cut, looks like it will work perfect. Cut a little half round section out of the side of the gasket for the brass bobble air bleed of the thermostat. Assembled perfect. I pulled the spacer out, that was easy. Now I just need to machine the new insert. Might have time later today before work. They got me workin 6:30pm to 7am tonight.

Tried to upload a few pics, but photobucket keeps crashing and cant load right now. More later.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Old gasket vs new gasket design


Gasket fitment


On housing


Thermostat goes on top


Recess in aluminum intermediate plate fits around thermostat


Bypas insert is now too low


Pilot bearing puller attachemnt - $15 deposit/free rental from autosone


Slide hammer tool - $30 deposit/free rental from Autozone


Attachment screws on the end



Screw puller to open the jaws and fit tight


Use slide hammer and remove



Bypass insert will seat agains bypass part of thermostat and block off port when thermostat is open



I have the aluminum all chucked up and faced...ready to machine the new bypass port insert when I get home if I am still awake enough after a 12hr shift.

I bought a new carbide tipped cut off tool. There were no carbide tipped cutoff tools the right size for my lather so I had to modify this one:

Here is the cutoff tool before cutting with guideline on it



Cut in half lengthwise to fit in my tool post



Cleaned up the edges and removed some sharp corners and ready to go!
(A little out of focus, sorry)

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Up early to do some work on the project again. I fully assembled the unit w/new gasket, fully torqued it down (and measured torque spec - 50 Inch Pounds for future reference for everyone) and measured how much the bottom gasket compressed. It was very little, but still important since the thermostat doesn't have alot of travel, we want the bypass port barely closed by the time the thermostat is fully open. Squeeto, I thought I'd mention when you move the thermostat mechanically (by hand) you can move it ALOT, much further than it will actually move on its own. A great idea, but the little piston that pushes it out doesn't travel nearly as much so it is important that when fully open it reaches far enough to close off the bypass. Anyway, now that I have final measurements I'm machining the bypass port inserts today.

Feels good to have some solid measurements to go on and to have this project's research/development finally coming to an end so I can get these going.

Thanks for all the support and waiting so patiently everyone.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Try putting a torch on it - Kidding
I just meant that you can push the valve to the point where the light cracks through and take a measurement from there. If the piston can't move the valve to that point, you need a new 'stat.

You absolutely do need a boil test to make sure it can extend the full distance but that is part of the design. I found that the thermostats you sent me could do this.

Yep, I took my measurements while it was in boiling water - or rather it was measure, put it back in, double check measurement, put back in, check again...lol And eventually I got a good measurement. The whole reason I had to design and make the bypass insert is because the new thermostat doesn't have enough travel to reach the bottom of the housing. I definately wanted to make sure it blocks off the port as it should.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

How do the fittings and different thermostat impact antifreeze flow rates, specially at higher RPM?

Are we arrived? Are we there yet?

Haaa give us a brake Mark! You will not keep us on the edge of our chairs no fracking way! It's Christmas in 2 day's Mark! There is no way Santa trow under our tree one of your $%?&@ thermostat sooooooooooo stop right now, take a cold one and some rest in family before the spouse kick your b...


Merry Chrismast to you and your love ones

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2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB

Good question.

The original size of the main cooling valve (at the top) is actually about 30% larger than the replacement. The distance it moves is farther than the new design allows as well. This is one of the reasons I suggested previously that leaving the design a little sloppy may be a good idea.

I have the only first run Mark thermostat and I have chosen to keep the 'stat as is and add a gasket below. This will give it a little more room to move thus a larger opening at the top.

That said, the new thermostat was used in very hot weather last summer and regulated the temperature correctly. The real test will be a hot Arizona day, pulling a trailer, uphill for a few miles on the highway.

The thermostat block off port piece on the bottom of the thermostat is spring loaded so that when it makes contact and seals the bottom port off (the bypass port that recycles coolant to the engine) the top part of the thermostat can continue to open further to maximum opening width. Adding a gasket (spacing the block off part of thermostat higher away from port) actually makes cooling on the engine less efficient if that bypass port does not get blocked since some of the coolant can go back to the engine instead of to the radiator. This is why I chose to machine the new insert - It makes sure the bypass gets completely closed when the thermostat opens and allows for the most efficient cooling because ALL coolant is forced through the radiator instead of some through radiator and some back through engine. The bypass is ONLY for coolant to flow through the block over and over during a warmup cycle of the engine to warm the coolant up evenly. Once the thermostat opens you want this closed for optimum cooling. This was how it was originally designed and it was designed this way for a good reason.

The original prototype did not close the bypass completely and I NEVER had any overheating issues whatsoever so you will probably be fine Squeeto, however I do recommend you use the old design as intended with the gasket on top with the thermostat centered underneath or upgrade to the newest design so that you have optimum cooling and a better gasket design. Like I said I'd be happy to send you the new insert and gasket free of charge or I can send you a new designed unit and you can swap whole units and return the original.

My bet for the reason I did not have any issues w/ the bypass still open on the first prototype is that the waterpump capacity to move water is greater than the combination of thermostat completely open, bypass completely open, and heater core port being fully utilized all at once. I don't think we will ever have a cooling issuw with these jeeps as long as the fanclutch/fan is operating correctly. I believe the cooling system is more than adequite and designed for the engine which has much more potential than the little liberty can actually use since it has a short wheelbase and is limited by that to 5000lbs of towing capacity.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

According to my calculations the original area for coolant flow from the water outlet past the factory thermostat at full open is .93" squared. The new thermostat itself has an opening area of 1.24" squared at full open. It should flow about the same coolant as the factory design.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I agree, this is why I mentioned before not to use 1/8 in rubber on the old design. I still think that I will be okay with my paper gasket and probably with 1/16 in rubber gasket later. If you have nothing but time and money (who does?) then send me the updated parts. Just trying to save you some .



Oops, yes correct ... my mind is going.

But even so, there comes a point when curtain area exceeds port area that you see no more flow. I mean if you were to move the valve 4 inches away you would not increase flow because you reached maximum at about 1/4 inch (or so).

Some quick measurements:
-original valve diameter is about 1.5 inch = 1.8 sq in area
-upper port diameter is about 1.3 inch = 1.3 sq in
-original valve movement for lower port just sealed is about .4 inch = 1.9 sq in (curtain)

So the original thermostat, on a hot day, seals the lower section, moves the upper valve away so that the restriction is limited to the size of the valve seat which exceeds the upper port size (1.3 sq in).

The new thermostat is about 1.15 in diameter = 1.0 sq in
The new thermostat is about 23% smaller than upper port size.

If the input port is smaller than this again then all should be ok as long as the heater ports are not stealing some of the flow. But who runs heat in the summer?

I don't know, it may be more complex than this but when the question was asked about flow, I thought that I should mention the smaller than port size thermostat. Sorry, again I stick fingers in.

I will take some pics to explain my math, all is not as it seems. The original thermostat was basically in a tube w/less than a 1/16" around its diameter as it starts to open. To the sides of it when open it had just over 1/8" where it was barely out of its "tube" at full open. It is true that the new thermostat spec it self when full open has a smaller area than the old thermostat appeared to at full open if you only look at the thermostat, but with the original thermostat the whole device moved by pushing on the housing with its piston and it moved the whole thing down basically a tube and there is not much room around the tstat in the tube until it reaches the very end of its travel and begins to get out of the tube area and into the more open area of the housing below. So I do not believe, based on some calculations I made, that the old thermostat flowed more than the new one. So hard to put this in words...lol Hopefully this helps you understand, but I don't blame you if you don't quite believe me until I put up pics to explain this better.

*EDIT*

Here's some pics:

Factory thermostat at full open - barely any room on the outside diameter for coolant flow (shown by the green arrows - CLICK TO ZOOM)


Most coolant flow is through here, still fairly narrow opening (shown by green arrows)


Annother shot of factory thermostat full open


Here's the new thermostat - Plastic caps are holding at just over where it would be at full open, but very close


Side shot


From the bottom


Here is the bypass plate when not in contact with bypass port


Here is the bypass plate showing how much safety travel is built into the spring mechanism so things aren't damaged after the port is blocked if the thermostat expands further


Hope this helps explain - as they say: A picture is worth a thousand words.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Up all night doing machining and other thermostat work. Got the new bypass port insert machined and pressed into the housing for geordi, got his all assembled with newly designed gasket. After assembly I did the 5gal bucket test and it was leaking from two spots - the small plastic port and the large plastic port. Barely leaked air, so probably wouldn't leak fluid out, but I didn't want to chance it so I unscrewed the large port (have to do this first to gain clearance to remove the small one) and then the small one...very carefully. To my amazement the plastic held up and nothing cracked or shattered. Then It was all downhill from there. I resealed and screwed the plastic ports back in and it is curing right now. Also had time to machine 2 more bypass insert pieces and get them pressed in some units and cut one more gasket. Then since one of the units I am sending out is the 1st prototype I was using I had to remove the studs from that one since they would now be too short. I jammed 2 nuts against each other and then to my amazement and with a little bit of effort the studs backed out with no problems. This is good to know since if you have been following this thread for awhile we decided to JB weld them in because JB Weld had the best resistence to glycol and heat, etc - better than any thread sealant available. Now w/the studs out I can re-JB Weld new ones of the correct length in and reuse the housing. Here's some pics from the night of work.

Machining one side of the bypass insert


What it looks like to use a cutoff wheel w/ a grinder w/ the lathe turning in the opposite direction to cut off the part


Here's the part, this gets flipped around in the lathe and machined down further on this end for a nice finish and the proper length


Here is the newly designed bypass insert next to the old design - just under 1/8" thicker than the old design


As mentioned before the factory sealant on the threads for both of these plastic ports had failed and they were both leaking so they had to be removed (now we know we can! lol).


After removal I reapplied sealant and reinstalled


All finished, just waiting to cure so I can reassemble the whole unit and pressure test again.


This is a perfect example of why I quality test ^^^^^^^, imagine how sad geordi would have been if he installed this and it leaked!!! It would have been a HUGE inconvenience for both of us and extra shipping costs, time, etc. Glad I found the leaks before sending it off so I could fix them before they could ever be an issue for him!

Well, I work again tonight and tomorrow night from 7pm to 7am and I've been up all night so I need catch some Zzz's before I have to get up again for work tonight.

I hope you all enjoyed the photos, it was nice to find out that the little plastic port was threaded in and is replaceable if it ever snaps off. A little peace of mind. Would probably go brass if this ever happens. I may end up going to the parts store and looking around sometime...I could possibly offer nice strong brass ports as an option for a small aditional cost.

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Merry Christmas to you too, Mark.............HJ

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☀lllllll☀Black 05 CRD Splimited, Track Lock, Select Track, Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit
GDE Hot Tune & Trans Tune, K&N Filter minder, Green Air Filter, Magnaflow 1226
LT245/75/16 BFG AT, EVIC, INPro LED 3rd Brake Light, V6 Airbox
LED Courtesy Lts & Rear floor Lts, Halo Key Light
02 Radio Bezel with ashtray & LED light ☀lllllll☀

If you find a good fit in brass, I'd pay that cost. Merry Christmas to you

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2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

X-2

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Dark Blue 2006 Liberty CRD
Eurekaboy airbox mod w/Anti-mouse mod
CCV to airbox mod
SEGR
GDE ECO Tune
Cherry Bomb glass pack muffler (sounds great)
TRANSGO Shift Kit
Full OEM skid plates + Boiler's radiator skid plate
Manik rock sliders and grill guard

X3

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Curius as to why use brass and not aluminum like the housing itself?

I've never heard of fittings like this in AL which is a very soft metal and easily galls. Most all plumbing fittings are plastic or brass so if one is ugrading from plastic the easy choice is brass. Works well but of course you have to be careful screwing brass into AL as brass is harder. My bet is these are standard fittings and brass upgrades can be easily obtained unless we are dealing with metric threads that do not match US type threads.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs