CRD Manual tranny swap

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:53 am

Sir Sam has a manual in his 2.8CRD MJ. (N3550 IIRC)

The 2005 exports have the 6 speed gearbox. And 3.55 gears...

Mine has the 5 speed N3550 and 4.10 gears...

Anyway, here are some pics and partnumbers:

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=57724

toyota jeep man · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm **Posts:** 110

HugeKJ05 i know what u mean i have been thinking about this in mine but was never that serious about it but if some one eltz is doing it i have no problem doing it my crd is the first auto i have owned and it gets boring and i want a manual and was think of selling it just cuz of it but i would way rather put a manual in it so please keep us (me) up to date i will be following this thread like the bible!!!! and lots of pic i know people will appreciate it!!!!

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:25 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Sir Sam has a manual in his 2.8CRD MJ. (N3550 IIRC)

The 2005 exports have the 6 speed gearbox. And 3.55 gears...

Mine has the 5 speed N3550 and 4.10 gears...

Anyway, here are some pics and partnumbers:

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=57724

Would you rather the auto or the manual? Out of curiosity.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:46 pm

I would rather have the Auto...(and you get fulltime 4x4)

Better for off-roading, no friggin clutch to worry about, no clumsy non serviceable master&slave crap, no $700 bi-mass flywheel.

But most importantly: room for my left foot. Now the clutch pedal is in the way. (stupid design flaw. JEEP could have easily designed another A pillar lower cover and put the hood lever somewhere else)

Why in the ... did we get manuals with cruise control? Does it then automaticaly downshift when we go up a hill? (nope)

etc..

So now you know what I think.

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:23 pm

I will have to agree that running an auto off road is much easier and more efficient. In the end for right now though, I am stuck on it. I just want to have more fun all around with it. When I build my strictly off road rig, it will be an LSx backed by a 4L60-E.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:43 pm

Oh, by all means, if you have the $$ and time and tools etc go for it. It's a fun project.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:11 pm

HugeKJ05 wrote:

So, I have found many discussions on this topic but none of which ended in an actual swap taking place. Has there been a swap here in the U.S yet?

If there has not, well, I just may be the first, which isn't always fun. I have come up with a combo that may work for a while but ultimately grenade but at least it will get the ball rolling.

Parts List:
1992-2003 Dodge Dakota 3.9L bell housing. OEM mates to AX-15 and/or NV3550 (found one at a near by yard for $75
AX-15/np231
Custom flywheel
GM clutch (McLeod twin disc RST) 10 spline x 1.125"

***IF IT IS IN GREEN, THEN I HAVE ALREADY SOURCED IT***

I am going to have the fly made to except an off the shelf gm clutch since they are popular clutch diameters and I will be able to change spline dimensions later if needed. The RST is a great clutch and I have used it in many Vettes. It has great feel, good wear characteristics and is still probably cheaper then ordering in from the UK.

Now the AX-15 may not hold up for too long, but if I drive it nicely, I can at least work out the electrical bugs and by the, I can start figuring out how to get a more robust gear box in. Also,I know the nsg370 can be sourced from the uk and behind the 4.0L and the 3.7L but I have not been able to confirm the bell will bolt up in either case and ultimately, it may grenade too. The route I am taking at least gives me a bell housing that I can later adapt if need be.

The next task is to get some flex plate specs in order to make the new flywheel.
1. I need to find out if any other application uses the same bolt pattern at the crank. Any info on this?

2. I need to know ring gear diameter for the starter. Also, any info?

If I can't find this soon, then I will need to purchase an oem flex and send it to my flywheel manufacture.

Throw out bearing config should come a little later.

I cannot say if the 3.9L dakota bellhousing is what you need. But this is the correct bellhousing here:(meant to be mated to a NV3500 as it is on my engine)

Here is the part number for that bellhousing:

52104294AA - if you search for that part number on moparpartsamerica.com they show a price of $50.50 - might be worth following up on to see if they really will order it for you. My local dealer told me they could order export parts if they just had the part number - you might consider doing this for the flywheel and clutch as well.

Any NV3550 from an XJ, TJ, or KJ will work, as it has a separate bellhousing that shares the bolt pattern as the front of the transmission(as you already know).

The KJ NV3550 gas tranny will have the correct bellhousing. The KJ NSG370 gas tranny will have the correct bellhousing.

The TJ NSG370 will NOT have the correct bolt pattern.

IMO - get a KJ manual trans, and order a used flywheel from the UK. It's a dual mass flywheel for the diesel.

Note: the 4L bellhousing is the same, with the exception that the starter is located in the wrong place on the bellhousing.

If you use OEM parts then you need only purchase a new throwout bearing, all the other internals are the same.

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:33 pm

Sir Sam, thank you very much for the great info.

Here is a picture of the dodge dakota bell, looks very similar. From what I understand also, an AX-15 and the nv3550 has the same bolt pattern so I could use what I have now to same some coin?

I would really like to stay away from dual mass flys, in my experience, they are built for comfort and not abuse. I will am going to do some research on that bell you showed me since its new and cheaper.

Making phone calls now

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:28 pm

The dual Mass Fly Wheel is a Bean Counter Engineering trick to get away with a lower fly wheel mass. As shown in other forums that cover performance engine upgrades. Dual Mass Fly Wheel = Bell Housing I.E.D.
This may make some of the super sharp pencil knocking the electrons off the paper engineers have a cow, and I know that it is a leap of faith. And yes, you should use a accelerating mass measuring turn table or a $50K compooper program to calculate the radius of gyration and inertia, bla bla bla.
But, since most of the SunCoast owners are happier with a smoother running engine. Your single mass fly wheel (plus the clutch pressure plate) should have at least the mass of a fluid filled SunCoast (or other Billet converter) and flex plate so you don't get unwanted torsional drive line vibrations.
My gut feeling, is that if your single mass fly wheel/ clutch weighs as much or more than a fluid filled SunCoast converter, you and your KJ will be happy. My suspicion is that the Custom Fly Wheel people know this, have the data, and do it all the time. If they don't know it, run as fast as you can and find another, you want a fly wheel, not a paper weight.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:09 pm

HugeKJ05 wrote:

Sir Sam, thank you very much for the great info.

Here is a picture of the dodge dakota bell, looks very similar. From what I understand also, an AX-15 and the nv3550 has the same bolt pattern so I could use what I have now to same some coin?

I would really like to stay away from dual mass flys, in my experience, they are built for comfort and not abuse. I will am going to do some research on that bell you showed me since its new and cheaper.

Making phone calls now

Yes the front side of the transmission has the same bolt pattern between the AX-15 and the NV3550. (and in case I forgot to mention it before, the NSG370 has an integrated bellhousing, so a TJ nsg370 will not work).

The rear of all of these transmissions of course shares the same output, though I would caution you that the TJ ax-15/nv3550/nsg370 have the rear output "clocked" differently which makes the transfer case sit higher(or "rotate") higher on the drivers side. I know this is an issue with clearance to the floor on MJ's and XJ's, I do not know how it compares to the KJ floor clearance.

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:49 pm

The AX15 I have is from a XJ.

My flywheel will be about 19 lbs.

My road course car's fly was 7lbs

Didn't want to be caught in traffic with that monster.

I had a factory SVT Focus dual mass fly explode on me. That sucked. Then again, I have also had a customer come in with a LS3 GTO and the clutch was practically missing. Not sure where all the pieces went, lol.

Ordering the bell housing and flexplate in the morning.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

HugeKJ05,

Have you already ordered the custom flywheel? A solid flywheel for this engine on the London Taxi weighs in slightly under 35 pounds. What is the moment of inertia for the flywheel to be built (if in the build specs)? A large mass is critical to have smooth engine torsionals with a 4-cylinder. It may reduce reaction a bit, but the tune can help with that. pm sent

With a manual you are able to make more use of the full power/torque bands and pick the optimum gear for each situation. The fun factor is also there!

It looks like the 2 bell housings in the topic have different engine side bolt patterns...hard to tell from pics.

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:02 pm

They be different, but who knows, we haven't had them in hand. I know some LS bells have extra bosses/holes, depending on app.

35 lbs eh, seems I's showing my gasser side. I will check some factory flys tomorrow and see what they weigh. I was guessing as the 19lbs off of a few other setups off the top of my head. I will make a few calls in the morning on the topic.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:06 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

HugeKJ05,

Have you already ordered the custom flywheel? A solid flywheel for this engine on the London Taxi weighs in slightly under 35 pounds. What is the moment of inertia for the flywheel to be built (if in the build specs)? A large mass is critical to have smooth engine torsionals with a 4-cylinder. It may reduce reaction a bit, but the tune can help with that. pm sent

With a manual you are able to make more use of the full power/torque bands and pick the optimum gear for each situation. The fun factor is also there!

It looks like the 2 bell housings in the topic have different engine side bolt patterns...hard to tell from pics.

X2 Yup, a 6 cyl will run in theory with out a fly wheel, just a little rough. A 8 cyl, 10 cyl, or 12 cyl will run with out a fly wheel with little vibration. Don't ask a 4 cyl to run with out enough fly wheel. Shipping weight on my SunCoast was ~40# dry. At ~ 35# plus the clutch pressure plate sounds close, don't cheat your self or risk cracking your crank.

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:21 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

HugeKJ05,

Have you already ordered the custom flywheel? A solid flywheel for this engine on the London Taxi weighs in slightly under 35 pounds. What is the moment of inertia for the flywheel to be built (if in the build specs)? A large mass is critical to have smooth engine torsionals with a 4-cylinder. It may reduce reaction a bit, but the tune can help with that. pm sent

With a manual you are able to make more use of the full power/torque bands and pick the optimum gear for each situation. The fun factor is also there!

It looks like the 2 bell housings in the topic have different engine side bolt patterns...hard to tell from pics.

X2 Yup, a 6 cyl will run in theory with out a fly wheel, just a little rough. A 8 cyl, 10 cyl, or 12 cyl will run with out a fly wheel with little vibration. Don't ask a 4 cyl to run with out enough fly wheel. Shipping weight on my SunCoast was ~40# dry. At ~ 35# plus the clutch pressure plate sounds close, don't cheat your self or risk cracking your crank.

It wouldn't be my first cracked crank or hole through a block, lol. I lost oil pressure once going around Big Bend at Lime Rock and put an Eagle rod through my block. So this isn't my first rodeo.

Factory weight of my Duratec 2.3L fly was 28lbs and I ran a 7lb fly. They run rough but run, though this app is obviously different.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

HugeKJ05, this sounds like a fun project!

Regarding the AX15, I've been running that tranny in my YJ conversion for the last ~4.5 yrs without problem. The little 4 cylinder Cummins is modified to make more torque than a stock, but less than a GDE tuned, CRD. It also has a HEAVY flywheel combination which I agree with others is important for a 4 cylinder engine making lots of torque at low rpms.

Best wishes on your project!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:21 pm

HugeKJ05 wrote:

Ordering the bell housing and flexplate in the morning.

You going with the one I showed you or the dakota bell housing?

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:02 pm

the one you showed me. It didn't end up being cheaper, but there is less risk involved. Only reason it was not cheaper was just due to the fact I couldn't get the part number search to work on the Mopar Parts America website. I must be missing a plug in on Firefox or something.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:37 pm

Remember the pilot bearing being in the flywheel in the OEM setup.

It also has a timing hole you use to lock engine at 90º after TDC (for T belt change for example). But you can copy that from the flexplate.

What kind of clutchplate are you going to use? The OEM one doesn't have any springs....

HugeKJ05 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:50 pm

The springs in the clutch disc are for vibration, I am using a twin disc clutch setup with out springs. As for the pilot bearing, I will figure that out when I pull my trans on Monday. Thanks for the heads up on the timing hole. I have never seen it go through a fly before but it shouldn't be a big deal. I could probably even go with out it since there are other ways to determine 90 deg of rotation.

CRD Manual tranny swap

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