can't take it anymore - anyone want a CRD?

thegn · **Joined:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:49 pm **Posts:** 4

Hi! I hope this is an ok spot in the forum to post this.

I've got an 07 CRD - and have had 3 months of problems with the EGR/MAF/BPV combination: power loss, stuttering, even blew a hose on road trip and was stuck in OKC for $2600 in repair and cleaning.

Now the dealer group here Lawrence/Topeka (KS) says that there is an "oil leak and problem somewhere in the engine. Also, that they can not get parts for the Motori even if they could determine what the problem is.

I wish I had found this forum sooner...however I need to get rid of my CRD...I love it - but I can't deal with the lack of parts and anyone to repair it.

I'm off to push on the dealer to give me something for the amount of money I've spent trying to have the issue resolved. I'd be happy to get this vehicle to someone who has the time/expertise/desire to maintain it...I just need to do it in the next day or so.

Please contact me via email if you are interested in more details! 77K miles - interior is in great condition. I'd like to pay off what owe - $14K.

Thanks and I appreciate your patience in advance with a n00b post....

Snowy · **Joined:** Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:00 am **Posts:** 42

Sorry to hear about your travails. I have had an ongoing discussion & correspondence with the folks at VM Motori, in Detroit, about parts availability, present and future. The lady there assures me (as recently as this morning) that parts availability is not nearly the issue we seem to think it is. VM Motori has a long-standing relationship with Chrysler and it continues to this day. Remember, the Liberty CRD is still built here for sale overseas. What does seem to be a problem (she contends) is that Chrysler has the parts sent to the States by boat and that adds about 45 days to the shipping process.

My dealer, here in Los Angeles, has not had an issue in getting parts overnight (alternator, water pump, turbo hoses & timing belt) and the CRD was not even sold in this state. Even I was able to order some specialized tools for the motor, right from a supplier in a Detroit suburb.

Try the Chrysler Customer Assistance line and rattle their cage (1-800-992-1997). If you can afford the time it will take, you may get some satisfaction from them, as I did just over this past couple of weeks. They are buying the majority of my premature timing belt replacement and that's only 'cause it's so time consuming to diagnose a timing belt issue. (as it turns out, there was no problem, just a chirping noise) Those folks are in a position to help with the parts, even when your dealer may be ignorant about such issues.

BTW, are you sure you have an '07? Chrysler only built them for the U.S. for Model Years 2005 & 2006.

And finally, there are countless stories about your kinds of symptoms being misdiagnosed and fellow owners being taken to the proverbial "cleaners" because mechanics do not understand the vehicle and the motor. I even had some guys tell me that I had a major engine issue as I was waiting in line, in the Service aisle. They did not realize I had a diesel.

You might want to read some more of the postings around here, just to see what I mean, especially one entitled "Sam's noob guide."

Hope this is of some help.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:10 pm

'07 with a VM diesel? That's a rare bird. I would ask for more if I were you.

changingtime · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:22 pm

call Chrysler, call Chrysler...if you "bother" a large company (even though you shouldn't have to), they will help. Trust me. i work for a fortune 50 company...I see it all the time.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Where did the CRD come from? Jeep did not produce a 2007 KJ CRD in the domestic market.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:42 pm

He must be talking about an '06. There werent any 2007 CRD KJ's. WJ's yes KJ's no.

KYMidnight · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:42 am

He didn't actually say it was a KJ. It might be an 07 WJ.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:51 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Where did the CRD come from? Jeep did not produce a 2007 KJ CRD in the domestic market.

Nigeria?

thegn · **Joined:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:49 pm **Posts:** 4

Hi all!

Thanks for the advice and info. I scanned the n00b guide last night - which gave some great advice and insight to the EGR issues (wish I had found you guys sooner!)

It is an '06, KJ I mistyped - apologies!

I have a call into Chrysler (expected response time = within 24 hours), and the dealer is "willing to help with trade-in"...and I'm waiting on his response.

So - the MAF was replaced at least once prior to this past October, base don the CEL coming on. In October - the CEL came on again, and I took it to the dealer (pretty much everything has been serviced at the dealer here in Lawrence). they said it was throwing the "p101" code - which is, I gather, an MAF error. I was leaving for a several day trip to Santa Fe - and was assured it would be no problem and I could either take care of it upon return, or have the dealer there deal with it. Dealer in Santa Fe couldn't get the part in before we left - so we came back.

Heading home to KS, 11:30pm outside of OKC, I lose all power, and the Jeep starts bucking. We limp to a hotel (1-2 miles) - and I get it towed to the dealer in OKC. The dealer in OKC indicated the boost pressure sensor had failed, causing a turbo hose to blow out (not sure the part name), and there was oil all inside the intake system. So - 5 days, a couple grand in cleaning labor, parts later...I have to fly back to OKC to pick up the Jeep.

Within 2 days of arriving back to Lawrence - check engine light comes on. I now being a sequence of having the Jeep into the dealer for X days, getting it back, CEL coming on. This repeats multiple times. Finally, the dealer here says: "We've exhausted our knowledge and troubleshooting capabilities. We are under new ownership, and can not contact Chrysler for support. Take the Jeep to our parent dealership in Topeka - they have a CRD "expert" there, and can call Chrysler for support."

So - off to Topeka we go. the guys there hold it for 5 days or so, and replace the boost pressure valve this time. I pick it up, and 5 days later (last Thursday), the CEL light comes on again. I take it back to Topeka yesterday, and thats when they tell me: "There was no oil in it when you brought it in, tere is an internal problem with the engine. The only to diagnose the problem is to tear into the head, cylinders, etc. *If* we find the problem, however, we cannot fix it, as we can not get parts for the Motori, as they are on over a year backorder."

Those are the essential components of the story. My frustration is - even if Chrysler's willing to deal with this repair (and if they say they have parts as Snowy indicates) - I have zero confidence that I can find someone to work on it in the future who has: 1) the expertise, 2) access to parts, 3) access to Chrysler for engineering support.

Its a shame as I really love this Jeep! I've really had no other problems with the engine or vehicle. I just do not have the time, money, skill, patience to work on it myself.

Hopefully the dealer and Chrysler can give me a reasonable deal on trade-in or something....

Thanks again for your willingness to listen and offer suggestions!

rich

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:54 pm

Sounds like another dealer misdiagnosed turbo failure.

KYMidnight · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:57 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Sounds like another dealer misdiagnosed turbo failure.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

dkenny · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:38 pm

what are the current list of codes? do you know?

some things are real cheap/easy to fix even for some one who doesn't normally work on cars..

for example,
if you remove the oil fill cap and then pull the big cover off..its just pretty decoration anyway.
standing in front..looking back..
toward the left rear of the engine you'll see something that looks like a hockey puck, but with hoses..
remove the hose to the front plug this. then add another hose that leads away from the engine..its 3/4" in size..ID dia.
sure you might piss off some tree huggers but you help keep the oil out of the intake.

you mentioned replacing the MAF..what about cleaning the MAP!
while you have the engine cover off..you find a long cylinder like shape on the right side.. toward the back, but not on this cylinder..you'll find the map. remove this..you'll need a 4mm allen wrench. clean with care..

something I haven't figured out.
if your loosing oil out the turbo, possible.., where's the smoke?
my thinking isn't base on the EGT of this engine since I don't what they actually are. but in my 6BT cummins..it runs 300-1100F..if oil was dumped into the exhaust..i think it would make a bunch of smoke..in the intake..you'd loose control of the engine RPM..this is possible..think about a run-a-way diesel.. oh I should the mention the 300F is coasting down hill..otherwise more like 500F

I think its a shame the Jeep didn't keep selling this in the US, BUT thanks to the EPA!! we're all screwed!! yet again..but we might have clean air..but not based on solid science..

the mechanic in me would love to have this to figure out the problems..but I cannot pay 14k..we bought my wifes for under 16k...not counting $$$ put in..

-dkenny

thegn · **Joined:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:49 pm **Posts:** 4

I don't have all the specific codes - but it was really only one - P101 - MAF error. It never changed what code was being thrown. I'll double check the text.

The dealer is currently offering $6500 on the trade-in value, and Chrysler is "researching" what restitution can be made (if anything). I have the number at Chrysler to call for researching what factory-dealer incentives may be available as well (800.227.0757).

Toby (Chrysler Case Manager in Customer Assistance) repeated the dealer's stance: Parts for the Motori have been unavailable for a year or more - and it is unknown when they will become available.

Gah. :banghead:

WRT the other questions - there is clearly excessive smoke out of the exhaust on acceleration, and (newly) some smoke coming from under the engine - though I have no idea if it's spilled oil or something else.

The MAP - everything in the intake system has been cleaned and/or replaced.

$14K is obviously waaaay out of the picture. but I was hoping for better - otherwise I'm hosed for my next vehicle as well...! >;->

I'll search around the forum - but how could I tell if it's a misdiagnosed turbo failure? What could the dealer techs have missed, or should be checking?

rich

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

So there is only one code P0101? Was the engine run for a while very low on oil? The the turbo still make boost and is the engine sounding normal, i.e. no bad knocking, etc.

We have a tune that might help your situation. Give us a call at 248-977-9531. We have a guaranttee and can refund you if the issues do not magically disappear. No sense losing $7000 on this vehicle if not necessary. Hopefully it works out for you.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:13 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

So there is only one code P0101? Was the engine run for a while very low on oil? The the turbo still make boost and is the engine sounding normal, i.e. no bad knocking, etc.

We have a tune that might help your situation. Give us a call at 248-977-9531. We have a guaranttee and can refund you if the issues do not magically disappear. No sense losing $7000 on this vehicle if not necessary. Hopefully it works out for you.

Keith is a very busy guy...don't mind his spelling,etc errors ^^^ "The the turbo still make boost" :ROTFL:

I personally had his tune on my Jeep and loved it. It fixes alot of issues the KJ CRD's are known for like dumping to much soot back in the turbo system through the EGR, etc. It fixes other things also like the horribly proportioned fuel gauge, etc.

The P0101 is a MAF sensor code right? Just so you know the MAF sensor on the KJ has NOTHING to do with the engine other than to tell it how much and when to open the EGR. The fuel rate is not determined by the MAF sensor on this jeep like most other cars. Most cars have EITHER a MAF or a MAP sensor, the CRD has BOTH and only the MAP is used for the fuel/engine running stuff and the MAF is only for emissions/EGR stuff. The GDE tune will eliminate this code completely (did I get that right Keith? Feel free to correct if i get anything wrong.

) and reduce how much the EGR is used so it will prevent the soot from building up on the sensors inthe intake which also causes alot of the known CRD issues. It's not "magic", just alot of good engineering that went into the tune (he doesn't like to brag). If that is the only code you are throwing now, then it could fix your current issue and prevent future issues. Here's their website:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=home

Browse around and read up on the tune and how it helps. Keith has done great things for the CRD community, knows a wealth of knowledge about the CRD engine, and he has personally taken my phone calls several times when I had CRD questions and even rented the tools to do my timing belt change for only $20.

Not trying to brag too much about him or his tune, just trying to give you enough background about him so you can make an educated decision (Call him and pick his brain for help

).

- Mark

onthehunt · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:06 pm

If it really does have engine damage I would contact a lawyer. Lots of $$ at stake.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:20 pm

thegn,

The lowest common denominator in your situation is the dealership. My first and foremost suggestion is to get it out of their hands yesterday. This will be a long post, so bear with me.

Boost hoses do not burst from overpressure by the turbo. They burst from oil, coming from the "hockey puck" dkenny described. The solvents in the motor oil weaken the hoses, which eventually leak or burst. Then, the Jeep will have no power, it will smoke a lot upon acceleration, and display many of the other symptoms you described.

If, at idle with the shifter in park, the engine does not knock or make any noises that are obviously way wrong, then it DOES NOT need to be torn into.

To check for turbo failure, there are a few simple steps to diagnose it. Make sure the engine is off and cool, then with the hood open and standing facing the engine, put your hand on the airbox close on your left. There is a tube that runs from the top of the box to the turbo. Loosen the hose clamp at the turbo and pull the hose off. (it will be kind of cramped in there, but it saves you $$$) Shine a flashlight in there, and you will see the fan part of the turbo that pulls in air. (technical name, impeller) Put your finger on the shaft in the middle of the fan and try to push it in and pull it out, and wiggle it left and right. (not just turning it, it should spin freely) If it has a noticable amount of movement, then the turbo is gone, and you will need to replace it. For that, I would recommend purchasing a turbo kit from GDE and having a local diesel shop do the install. Might as well upgrade if it's broken, right? And it would still be cheaper than the dealer replacing it with a stock unit. (Which IS available - further evidence of the dealership rooking you with that line about parts not being available for over a year now. They just want to lowball you on the trade, sell you another vehicle, then repair your Jeep, send it to auction, and make $$$. They wouldn't offer you $6500 for a Jeep that is catastrophically damaged; they look like they're trying to help you but they are just trying to profit off of you.)

But I digress.

If the turbo shaft has minimal to no play in it, NOW it's time to spend money. Go to Wal Mart and buy a $100 Innova OBDII scanner to pull and clear codes from the engine computer. Follow the instructions, pull the codes, and post here. Most likely you will get a code related to the MAP sensor described by dkenny. At that point, it is time to check to see if it needs cleaning - even though the dealership "cleaned" your intake, I doubt that they took any notice whatsoever of the MAP. Here is a link to instructions for that step: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=22630

Once you've done that and put everything back together, take it for a drive and see how it's working. If my guess is correct, it will drive much more like it did before all of this came up. If that is the case, it's time for the next expenditure.

Get the Green Diesel Engineering tune that dkenny mentioned; it will be the most expensive part of this process, $450. That will make your engine computer as up-to-date as possible, as well as giving you better performance, fuel economy, and driveability. If money is an issue, you can take a free and simple step that will help, but cause you to have a persistent check engine light on. Link here: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=22631 That is another reason to have the scanner I first mentioned.

Provided that there really was no major mechanical damage, (It's hard to diagnose things long-distance) by this time in the process you should be driving a Jeep that performs even better than it did brand new.

Many problems that are common to the CRD Liberty have been solved by this community - many times in response to dealer incompetence. The dealer tends to look for the most expensive and labor-intensive fix for your problem, due to the way their pay-scale and reimburseable rates are fixed. Many a turbo has been replaced that was not broken, but because it was more profitable for the dealer to replace a turbo than to replace boost hoses. (And they say it is because of the turbo overpressuring the hoses, so it must be replaced)

If you are willing to get your hands dirty and not let yourself be taken advantage of, follow the advice in my post and of several posters here, and take matters into your own (dirty and sooty) hands. Here's a link to a post I created a while back that goes into the causes and reasons for these systemic failures: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50930

KYMidnight · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:33 pm

$6500 for an 06 KJ?!?! I'll give you more than that! I'll take the chance on the motor, because I'm pretty darn sure there is nothing wrong with it. I don't have 14k (I only paid 12500 for my 06 kj w/ 58k miles) but I'm pretty sure you're getting buggered there, mate.
MAYBE something screwy with the turbo, but the motor is very probably good.
My guess is your dealer is gonna take you for a ride on this if you are not careful.
I don't have the tune from keith myself yet, (But am ordering it next week sometime) but by all accounts, his tune with the EHM pretty much solve the problems of the vehicle.
If you've got turbo shaft play, then that's a done deal, but if not, I'd see about getting new turbo hoses (if you haven't already), clean your MAP sensor, a GDE tune, and I'd bet your problems would be done and gone.

DynoPax · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:23 pm

X2 with everyone, and especially with linewarbr... The wisdom and knowledge available on this forum is priceless :google:

Take control, educate yourself and do your own work. You will not regret it one bit and will enjoy the little beast!

can't take it anymore - anyone want a CRD?

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