2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of America!

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:04 pm

OldSkull wrote:

A V6 Cummins! Ho you turn me on baby! Gosh...this is wonderful! Ford it's suppose to offer a V6 version of the power stroke in is F150 for 2012, if GM do the same in 2012 can we presume it's a conspiracy and they got no more option for 2012 certification? :shock:

Sorry OldSkull, I made an error. The Ram 1500 had a V8 and the Grand Cherokee had the V6.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:05 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

If you compare the same vehicle one with diesel and the other with gas, the diesel will have an overall smaller emission footprint. However, there are 5 core emission constituents the EPA looks at: CO, HC, NOx, PM and CO2

Diesels are generally lower in CO2 by 20-30%, lower in HC by 30%, lower in CO by 50% and higher in PM by 50% (without a particulate filter) and roughly double the NOx. NOx is the killer for diesels in the states as this requires a lean NOx trap or selective catalytic reduction (SCR and urea injection). These systems are very costly at the moment and the hardware life is less than the engine life. If the EPA allowed higher NOx emissions for diesels the overall emission output would drop since the diesel will have lower emissions for the other 4 measured emissions than a gasoline counter part. Just a note, all new diesel vehicles are equipped with a particulate filter, which virtually eliminates PM emissions.

Man, your preaching to the choir. Every time someone goes "but diesels are so dirty" I'm about ready to go off emissions species but your average joe just doesn't get that. :furious:

I've said it before, but NOx is the big bad boogy man here.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:31 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

OldSkull wrote:

A V6 Cummins! Ho you turn me on baby! Gosh...this is wonderful! Ford it's suppose to offer a V6 version of the power stroke in is F150 for 2012, if GM do the same in 2012 can we presume it's a conspiracy and they got no more option for 2012 certification? :shock:

Sorry OldSkull, I made an error. The Ram 1500 had a V8 and the Grand Cherokee had the V6.

I was joking about the conspiracy in case you didn't notice it! :mrgreen:

You started this thread about a Jeep Wrangler Fiat Diesel engine and this story is base on a guy from a Dodge Cummins forum "suppose" to have full access to the reseach and developement center of DC and he finaly drove a Dodge Ram with a V8 not a V6 Cummins but he saw a Cherokee with a V6 Diesel...A bit confusing...

It's probably the V6 from Vancini/Martelli (RA 630 DOHC) they drop in the Cherokee but if they "supposed" testing a "Fiat" Diesel in a Wrangler why they use a VM in the GC? Make no sense at all, They are not going to paid certification for 2 engines if they can use any of those in both plateform, it's just plain stupid! A Logic explanation? They test both engine in the 2 plateform for 2012 new regulation and the best result got the contract?

Finaly dieselenthusiast just between you and me...and the rest of Lost Jeep readers......
Your "Scoop" start to look like TMZ B/S :ROTFL:

Sorry have to let it go :mrgreen:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:56 pm

OldSkull, let me make this more simple for you. Allpar has heard rumblings from Chrysler that there could be a 2012 diesel Wrangler for North America. The guy on the Cummins Forum who works in Logistics has full access to the R&R department at Chrysler. I asked him if he had seen any evidence of a diesel Wrangler. He said, “NO”, but he did see a V6 diesel being tested in the Cherokee. His statement would make sense based on this quote by Sergio Marchionne: “The Jeep Grand Cherokee is available with a 3-liter diesel in Europe, it takes me nothing to move it over here, we have to adapt it for the emissions standards, but is it going to sell here with a 3-liter diesel?“ Then he goes on to say, “The Wrangler is available, that’s something I think we need to take a hard look at, because certainly the core performance of that machine would be... there are great attributes of having diesel in a car, that's why they are popular as they are on the heavy duty side of trucks.”

Another (Chrysler insider) on the forum said that since Sergio Marchionne took over, there has been very little information on new vehicles that will be publicly shared prior to actual launch dates. “Case in point was the new Grand Cherokee. Very little information about true specifics were available until Chrysler made formal announcements.”

It is my conclusion, based on very little information, that Chrysler could most likely take a Euro Wrangler diesel engine and adapt it to meet North American emission standards without too much trouble. Even Sergio Marchionne (as quoted this month) seems to believe that a North American diesel Wrangler would be a good move from a sales perspective.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:36 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

OldSkull, let me make this more simple for you.....
It is my conclusion, based on very little information.

In conclusion and "Simple words" dont old your breath on this! I'm happy you tell us it was your conclusion based on what you read. My last post offended you for sure and I give you my apology for it. I should have writen "Just Kidding you" in capital...

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:24 pm

OldSkull wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

OldSkull, let me make this more simple for you.....
It is my conclusion, based on very little information.

In conclusion and "Simple words" dont old your breath on this! I'm happy you tell us it was your conclusion based on what you read. My last post offended you for sure and I give you my apology for it. I should have writen "Just Kidding you" in capital...

No, I wasn’t offended. You seemed a little confused, so I tried to put all the pieces of the puzzle into one post. I’m hopeful for a 2012/2013 Wrangler, but I understand that the overall global economy is the biggest factor. Once the American economy seems stable, then perhaps Chrysler will see fit to bring more diesels into the U.S. I’m also hopeful that the future for diesel will be an economic advantage as well as a consumer advantage.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:38 pm

I will believe it when I see it at a dealership.

That is the ONLY sentiment that anyone needs to have. For how many years have we been hearing "[ Ford / Mopar / GM ] have a diesel entering final testing in their [ light duty midsize pickup ] and it will be available on the market in just TWO model years from [ The current year ] !!!

So now Ford has a F150 diesel for the 2012 model year? Yea... And I'm a penguin.

Consumers and the consumer's advantage or desires have NOTHING to do with what they will design or sell. GM's motto has always been "We build crap, you'll buy it anyway."

Until its on the lot, it doesn't exist.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:07 pm

geordi wrote:

I will believe it when I see it at a dealership.

A good example is the Mahindra small diesel pickup. It's even been certified by the EPA and still didn't make it :dizzy:

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:59 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

geordi wrote:

I will believe it when I see it at a dealership.

A good example is the Mahindra small diesel pickup. It's even been certified by the EPA and still didn't make it :dizzy:

I thought they were still making noises that it was "coming soon" and would actually be on sale sometime this epoch?

edit: Never mind, I found the article talking about their pissing war with Global Vehicles USA. So they are fighting with their distributor. Wonderful for the consumer... Oh wait, it was never about servicing a consumer.

Hey VW.... How about bringing some more of your proven and certified TDI engines to the states? Maybe in that Amarok truck body? I'd rock that in a heartbeat. Even a Routan minivan if it was a diesel.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:26 pm

And if VW built a TDI powered Amarok in their new plant in Tennesse they wouldn't have to pay the 20% chicken tax :goink:

woodtick · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:05 pm

no advertising + poor sales for the diesels+ lack of support=. :dead:

I would like to see more ads for the diesels. never saw one for the CRD liberty or the diesel grand when they were available

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

A 2012 Wrangler is not feasible based on a normal development cycle. The Euro Wrangler CRD is currently released meeting Euro 5 emission standards. To meet emissions in the states will require and SCR (urea injection) to meet the NOx requirements. This component needs a complete reliability and durability test schedule, typically about 12-18 months of solid testing.

In 2014 The Wrangler will need to meet Euro 6 emission standards and will require SCR. When this happens it would be a no-brainer to bring it to the US. Before that time it would be a miracle.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 pm

Is Chrysler 100% SCR vested?? Who are they using for diesel? Fiat or VM??

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:31 pm

I'm sure that by 2014, the idiot hippies of the EPA will have decided to change the diesel regs AGAIN, reducing NoX by another 30% below atmospheric norms. They can't POSSIBLY ever let the regulations equal those of the bastage Europeans. Then diesels might suddenly invade and pollute this gloriously clean countryside that isn't polluted AT ALL by over 300 coal-fired power plants!

:roll:

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

All the Jeep products are using the VM engine. VM and Fiat have a good working relationship. Fiat's diesels are a little small for the vast majority of Chrysler vehicles.

SCR will be required on the Jeeps. They weigh too much for lean NOx technology (what VW uses on the Jetta).

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:07 am

Lean NOx works on semi's. Weight be damned.
Are all the light duty diesel's going with SCA tech?? Is this the future of passenger diesel?

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

VW is adding a diesel (or rather bringing it back) to their US lineup:

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-buying/di ... sel-models

If VW can do it, etc....

dieseldoesit · **Posted:** Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:17 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

A 2012 Wrangler is not feasible based on a normal development cycle. The Euro Wrangler CRD is currently released meeting Euro 5 emission standards. To meet emissions in the states will require and SCR (urea injection) to meet the NOx requirements. This component needs a complete reliability and durability test schedule, typically about 12-18 months of solid testing.

In 2014 The Wrangler will need to meet Euro 6 emission standards and will require SCR. When this happens it would be a no-brainer to bring it to the US. Before that time it would be a miracle.

GDE, Do you have a link or anything that shows or compares the different emissions requirements for Euro Vs US?

That is good to here that the 2014 Euro emissions will be catching up with the US. It has to be a huge wast of money and time / energy to make large changes to vehicles depending on the market location.

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

http://mahindraplanet.blogspot.com/2011/12/revealed-us-mahindra-pickups-to-be-made.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Looks like they might be coming in 2013.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:19 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

geordi wrote:

<<--- Is not holding his breath waiting for Mopar/Fiat to pull their collective heads out of their tailpipes on this one.

Color me VERY VERY dubious that something like this will ever see the light of day. Kinda like the perennially available "in 2 years" diesel option for the Ford Ranger / F150 / Chevy 1500. They only keep saying that so they haven't completely closed the door on the possibility, and someone else doesn't swoop in and catch them unawares. The other reason to keep spinning the rumor mill about diesel options is to keep sucke... Enthusiasts, reading their press releases and articles.

Well count out Ford since they started putting the 3.6 EcoBoost V6's in the F150's(rangers are no more),and count out GM since the bailout the baby Max is long gone.

3.5L GDI TT...bought one for my gf to replace her Nissan Sentra skateboard

2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of America!

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