OBD system not communicating with scanner

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:13 pm

Anyone know what would cause the OBD system to stop working?

I've got two Liberty CRD's - a 2005 with 94,000 miles and a 2006 with 97,000 miles. During the process of trying to diagnose some overheating / no-cabin-heat problems on the 2005 - I've been repeatedly running the Jeep up a local mountain after doing various repairs, with scanner attached, reading "live data" to watch the engine coolant temp under varying conditions. (Still no real solution, but that's another topic)

So, then I go to do the same run in the 2006 to see how the ECT should be behaving - and the scanner won't communicate. When first turning on, it says that it's "detecting protocol", then almost immediately "Linked to J1850 VPW" (it takes considerably longer in the 2005), then the scanner reports "No DTC's or Freeze Frame Data Stored..." (even though the CEL is on because I've got the MAF sensor unplugged). Pressing the "Live Data" button - the scanner shows ONLY engine rpm and TPS%, instead of the usual 10 items that it shows when linked to the 2005.

The scanner is an Innova CanOBD2 model 3130. I've installed new batteries in it.

I've checked fuse 33, it's good. If I attempt to link with fuse 33 pulled, I get nothing on the scanner - so I know that it's getting power to the DLC when the fuse is in place.

In my travels yesterday - I stopped at two different Autozones to see if their scanners would connect. At the first - the scanner immediately retrieved code P0102 (MAF Sensor). But then, at the second store - their scanner behaved just like mine. Said it was connected, but then - no codes, no live data, unable to erase DTC's, etc... (Same scanner at both stores - I have no earthly idea why one would connect, but not the other)

I know that the OBD system has worked properly in the past. I've used this same scanner and others to diagnose various hiccups, reset codes and monitor live data.

So, my question is this - I've 3000 miles left on my Maximum Care factory warranty. Before I take the vehicle to the local dealer and let them start randomly hacking into the wiring, computers, etc - I'd like to have an idea of what might be wrong so I can tell them (they're not real sharp). Has anyone else had a similar problem, or can someone possibly point me in the right direction?

Also, in the process of composing this post - I find that when linking to the two different Jeeps, after detecting the protocol, when connected to the 2005 the scanner displays "Linked to ISO 9141" while the 2006 displays "Linked to J1850 VPW"... does this mean anything significant?

I hope someone can help.
Thanks
Doug

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:47 pm

The OBD system in the CRD is a kludge... many threads on the subject here and probably in the tech section.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:59 pm

The 05 and 06 ECM's speak a different procol so they will not operate the same. The 06 uses CAN BUS for engine communications.
Don't know why the scanner does not see the CEL code. Did yor scanner ever work o both jeeps?

No scanner will sucessfully monitor live data for more then 15 or 20 minutes if that long before locking up. Also it can cause the transmission drop out of overdrive.

andersoncol · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:38 am

I just got a brand new OTC Genisys EVO, but mine won't tell me much. I hooked mine up and went through the steps normally, and it won't connect. I have to go in using Global OBD2 which doesn't give me much information. Talked to OTC and they said they just don't have the programming for my 2.8 diesel. Some things work normally that are the same as a gas model, but the important stuff is really lacking. Kinda was second guessing having spent the money on the scanner, but I'll use it down the road on other things. To properly do all the stuff with my Jeep, OTC told me 'd have to get a Chrysler DRB scanner. Looks like $3-5000, so I guess Dodge will have to do some of my diagnosing.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:53 am

andersoncol wrote:

I just got a brand new OTC Genisys EVO, but mine won't tell me much. I hooked mine up and went through the steps normally, and it won't connect. I have to go in using Global OBD2 which doesn't give me much information. Talked to OTC and they said they just don't have the programming for my 2.8 diesel. Some things work normally that are the same as a gas model, but the important stuff is really lacking. Kinda was second guessing having spent the money on the scanner, but I'll use it down the road on other things. To properly do all the stuff with my Jeep, OTC told me 'd have to get a Chrysler DRB scanner. Looks like $3-5000, so I guess Dodge will have to do some of my diagnosing.

Well see now your in a bind.......................

For your '05 you will need the DRBIII and for your '06 you will need the StarScan as the protocol changed from '05 to '06.So that would be about $9000 for both.

The app chart for Chryslers and what OEM scanner is needed..................
http://www.oemtools.com/images/VehicleDiagnosticToolRefChart.pdf

http://www.oemtools.com/homeproducts/chrysler.html

andersoncol · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:22 pm

Ha ha i see that apparently I am. I'm sure its like anyone, $9000 is obviously not feasable. If there were more around, and I could make the majority of my money back I'd consider it, but that's a wee bit too much money to fork out.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:14 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

andersoncol wrote:

I just got a brand new OTC Genisys EVO, but mine won't tell me much. I hooked mine up and went through the steps normally, and it won't connect. I have to go in using Global OBD2 which doesn't give me much information. Talked to OTC and they said they just don't have the programming for my 2.8 diesel. Some things work normally that are the same as a gas model, but the important stuff is really lacking. Kinda was second guessing having spent the money on the scanner, but I'll use it down the road on other things. To properly do all the stuff with my Jeep, OTC told me 'd have to get a Chrysler DRB scanner. Looks like $3-5000, so I guess Dodge will have to do some of my diagnosing.

Well see now your in a bind.......................

For your '05 you will need the DRBIII and for your '06 you will need the StarScan as the protocol changed from '05 to '06.So that would be about $9000 for both.

The app chart for Chryslers and what OEM scanner is needed..................
http://www.oemtools.com/images/VehicleDiagnosticToolRefChart.pdf

http://www.oemtools.com/homeproducts/chrysler.html

Are you saying that the CAN StarScan is not backwards compatible with the VPW/SCI systems? I thought that the '06 has all three.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:39 pm

ColoCRDx2 wrote:

Also, in the process of composing this post - I find that when linking to the two different Jeeps, after detecting the protocol, when connected to the 2005 the scanner displays "Linked to ISO 9141" while the 2006 displays "Linked to J1850 VPW"... does this mean anything significant?

I hope someone can help.
Thanks
Doug

I think I indicated above the 05 and 06 engine computers communicate differently and that's what your seeing. There are a number of computers in the car and they all speak different langues. For a better explaniation send GMCTD a email and ask him.

Here's a site that might help you understand why they are different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_bus

Here's a page that explaines the J1850 and J9141 and what pins on the obdii plug they use. If you want to do something look for a pin pushed out of the obdii plug.
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Auto ... I_Bus.html

Since your near the end of your warranty reconnect your maf and take it to the dealer before the code clears and play dumb and see what they find

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:27 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

The 05 and 06 ECM's speak a different protocol so they will not operate the same. The 06 uses CAN BUS for engine communications.
Don't know why the scanner does not see the CEL code. Did your scanner ever work on both jeeps?

OK, so you guys have me wondering. Even though I've had this scanner almost as long as I've had the '06 CRD, this vehicle has been (relatively) trouble free and I can't say with 100% certainty that I can remember any specific instances in which I've actually used the scanner on it, until just recently. So, maybe it's never communicated properly.

But, that still doesn't explain why the code scanner at one of the Autozones that I went to seemed to link properly, and the other didn't. The guy at the second store (the one that wouldn't link) said that all the Autozones in the area should have the same scanner. I'm going to be making the same route tomorrow and will stop again at both stores to see if I get the same result(s). I'll also get the make and model numbers of the scanners and report back which one worked, which one didn't. I know that there's a thread here for users to report such info.

Also - some of the info I'm reading here makes me think that my scanner should still see the DTC's, MIL status, etc.... even if it's not able to report Live Data. Is that right?

Thanks for all the input
Doug

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:35 pm

It could be just a simple matter of a pin getting pushed out of the obdii connector :lol:

The second link I posted tells you what pins are used with different protocols.

It might be worth your time to check

jnw010 · **Joined:** Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:51 pm **Posts:** 9

I have an 06 CRD and communicating with the scanner is hit and miss. The most reliable method I've found is as follows:

Ignition off.
Connect scanner.
Start scan.
Wait until scan is part way through (my scanner has a status bar that shows it's "loading").
At a certain point (try it at different points into scan) switch ignition on (don't start engine).
Voila! The scanner picks up the codes.

It took some trial and error of when to turn on the ignition, but on my scangauge I now know to do it when the status bar is at a certain point and it'll read.

Might work for you.

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:24 pm

I've checked all the pins in my DLC and the connector on the scanner itself. Everything looks intact.

I'm now not able to get any scanners to report DTC's, live data, etc. - even though I could once before at one of the Autozone's that I stopped at.

The next step is to take the Jeep to my dealer and see if their scanner will work properly. Hopefully I can get them to hook it up without charging me the diagnostic fee or the deductible on my service agreement. I've their scanner won't link - then I'll leave it with them to figure out.

I read somewhere on the board here that there was a F31 reflash to correct this OBD2 problem, but can't seem to find anything specific about that now.

Also - is there any way to tell which neutering reflashes have been done to my Jeep? There's no stickers under the hood to that effect.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:40 pm

ColoCRDx2 wrote:

I read somewhere on the board here that there was a F31 reflash to correct this OBD2 problem, but can't seem to find anything specific about that now.

Also - is there any way to tell which neutering reflashes have been done to my Jeep? There's no stickers under the hood to that effect.

I remember this too. That would be a free fix. :BANANA:

Try this:
http://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/jeep/index.jsp

Select RECALL OR CUSTOMER SATISFACTION NOTIFICATION INFORMATION and enter your VIN at the bottom.

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:45 pm

Squeeto wrote:

Select RECALL OR CUSTOMER SATISFACTION NOTIFICATION INFORMATION and enter your VIN at the bottom.

Checked the website - no outstanding recalls.

Also - I've done a little more reading on this, and I'm still confused if F31 was a recall, a TSB or a Customer Satisfaction Notice.... sounds like I need the dealer's help to see if this has even been done.

If it hasn't been done (and I really want to be able to use my scanner) - is this something that I need to beg for? And it's not a warranty item - they shouldn't charge the plan deductible, right?

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:03 pm

Check with your dealer. I don't think that this was charged to the customer because DC needed to be OBD compliant.

I would worry that the dealer may roll in the F37 as well though.

Dealers are usually happy to tell you what you need over the phone for free because it means possible business for them. I requested a service printout when I bought the truck (2nd owner); they didn't charge me for that.

Hopefully, someone here will remember that recall number for the OBD problem too.

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:21 pm

jnw010 wrote:

I have an 06 CRD and communicating with the scanner is hit and miss. The most reliable method I've found is as follows:

Ignition off.
Connect scanner.
Start scan.
Wait until scan is part way through (my scanner has a status bar that shows it's "loading").
At a certain point (try it at different points into scan) switch ignition on (don't start engine).
Voila! The scanner picks up the codes.

OK, so I've tried some different timing combinations of plugging in the scanner, turning on the key, etc...

Depending on the exact procedure the results vary. Using one procedure, I've been able to get the scanner to connect and report DTC's when the engine is off. Through a different set of steps, I've also been able to get Live Data once the engine is running. It's still kinda hit and miss though.

What's interesting is this:

When left to it's own devices - the scanner links to J1850 VPW and reports nothing. No DTC's, no data except TPS & RPM. Or, at least it claims to be linked.

When I jump through all the hoops - the scanner links to ISO 9141 and does everything it should.

So I guess that the 06 uses the same protocol as the 05 afterall? I mean, it should be using ISO 9141, but doesn't quite make the connection for some reason.

I've checked the DLC connectors in both cars against the pin out diagrams that Joe Romas pointed me to, and all the pins for both protocols are present in both the 05 and the 06.

Does anyone out there have a scanner that works properly on an '06? If so, could you possibly tell me which protocol it's using when it's working?

I'm headed to the dealer on Monday. Gotta get this licked before my warranty runs out in 1,800 miles.

ColoCRDx2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:27 pm

Squeeto wrote:

I would worry that the dealer may roll in the F37 as well though.

Unfortunately - I think the F37 was already done early on. It was just a re-flash, right? I'll have to check my records.

And - regarding the F37 - once done, can it be undone? As soon as my warranty runs out I'm planning on doing some serious improvements to the car. The GDE tunes get rid of the F37, don't they?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:43 pm

ColoCRDx2 wrote:

Unfortunately - I think the F37 was already done early on. It was just a re-flash, right? I'll have to check my records.

And - regarding the F37 - once done, can it be undone? As soon as my warranty runs out I'm planning on doing some serious improvements to the car. The GDE tunes get rid of the F37, don't they?

Here's the deal on F31, it was a pre F37 that did what F37 does but also made crd's out of epa specs because it would not talk to third party scanners So if you needed F31 you would already have gotten the neutering of F37 just in a earlier flash. And it would have never worked with any third party scanner if you needed F31.

Any reversal of the ECM and TCM, yes F37 flashed them both, will have to come from a third party. SunCoast will reflash your TCM to pre f37 condition and GDE's will flash their TCM tune. Their eco tune will give you as much power back that the torque converter can handle. But if you've got a Euro or other brand of TC then their "full torque" eco tune will give it all back and then some :BANANA:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:26 pm

ColoCRDx2
I thought that the Innova 3130 was one of the scanners that actually works with our trucks.

Why don't you invite a bunch of buddies over and see if you can read their vehicles. If you have troubles with theirs, maybe it is time for a new scanner.

edit: Actually better to check for a scanner flash upgrade before replacing it.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:20 am

Squeeto wrote:

ColoCRDx2
I thought that the Innova 3130 was one of the scanners that actually works with our trucks.

Why don't you invite a bunch of buddies over and see if you can read their vehicles. If you have troubles with theirs, maybe it is time for a new scanner.

edit: Actually better to check for a scanner flash upgrade before replacing it.

And if you have any VW buddies that have VAG-COM invite them too :SOMBRERO:

My vag-com links up every time with no problems on my 06. But like all third party scanners it will drop off after 15 to 20 minutes of driving.

To clearify, F31 was a RECALL but only those that got the problem causing flash that was only available for a short time, June of 06, needed it. I got it and vag-com would never connect at all untill F31 was done.

OBD system not communicating with scanner

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