Is it worth it?

EZLiberty · **Joined:** Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:46 pm **Posts:** 84

I searched for some time and most decent crd's sell for about $12k-$14k under 100k miles, lately it is hard to make the switch if You add $3.5 for a gallon of diesel. I really like the liberty and would like to have a diesel one but the mpg gain isn't much to brag about. I would appreciate some real city/highway MPG #'s just to see if what I gather so far is correct.

Thank You.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:01 pm

The average person drives 15,000 miles per year.

The average person with a CRD has an annual average of about 23 MPG (real numbers posted by real owners).

The average person with a gas KJ has an annual average of about 16 MPG (real numbers posted by real owners).

The math is simple IF you are only looking at fuel economy. Diesel destroys gasoline hands down. Even with a $.50 per gallon premium, you are still saving $75 per month in fuel alone with the diesel.

Now... having said that you must consider the overall package. Maintenance costs more on the diesel so it offsets the fuel savings some. On the flip side, resale value is MUCH higher with the diesel. And people can debate it all they want but the gas models are starting to show a serious string of failures around 150,000 miles. There are only a handful of diesel failures that we've heard of. So if you are somebody who keeps a vehicle until it literally falls apart, the diesel may save money in the long run.

METCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:20 pm

0ne thing that I have found to be useful when comparing gas to diesel vehicles is finding out the cost per mile to drive said vehicle. If you estimate diesel on the high side and say $3.50 a gallon and divide that by 23 mpg average it would look like this. $3.50/23 mpg = $ 0.152157 per mile to drive the diesel. And if you took the gas engine with a gas price of $3.35 a gallon and 16 mpg it would look like this $3.35/16 mpg = $0.209375 per mile to drive. These prices may not be typical of your local area and if they are not you can always adjust the price accordingly and then compare the two. Comparing the cost per mile to drive you can really then compare apples to apples. If you really wanted to you could also look into the cost of maintenance to further compare the cost to drive, but that may be beyond the scope of your question. For me I was getting about 13 mpg with my Cherokee with gas, and now I am getting around 20 with my diesel liberty. It is still cheaper to drive the diesel but I have not stopped looking into increasing my fuel economy with the diesel. Good luck deciding and let us know what you come up with.

jmoomaw · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:58 am

I believe the total cost of ownership for the CRD is higher. If you add in purchase price, price/gal, insurance and maintenance. You can estimate the purchase price and other factors over 10 years to see what you get.

The total cost per gallon really goes up when you consider all of the expenses. If you are looking to save on the financial side and compare to other vehicles with the same abilities then we are ahead.

Maybe the question is.....is what I want my vehicle to do worth the cost? For me, I am not sure a gasser would handle what I need as well and for as long. Sometimes I get caught up in the cost, and others I am grateful for the traction, power, towing capabilities, plow pushing (she is doing a great job on my parking lots this year..already paid for 2/3 of the plow), and room to carry what i need for work.

mungewell · **Joined:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:04 pm **Posts:** 48

We purchased ours with an eye to running bio-diesel in the future, now we're off warrentee we'll probably try it out this summer.

Simon.

changingtime · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:03 pm

i've owned multiple jeeps and have had nothing but issues with them (gassers) when i was able to get my hands on the crd i was pretty happy. i'm hoping the engine last long, etc...

EZLiberty · **Joined:** Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:46 pm **Posts:** 84

The only major problem I had with the liberty so far is the torque converter, then the vacuum leak and the oxygen sensors. I would really like the diesel liberty but I can't justify buying one to save a few bucks in fuel then pay twice as much for it. If I find one for the right price I will jump on it.

Thank You.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:10 pm

I bought mine because I like the way it drives
- any mileage stuff is extra.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:58 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

I bought mine because I like the way it drives
- any mileage stuff is extra.

X2

Want mileage and to factor cost of ownership per mile out to six digits? Buy a Hyundai Elantra.

EZLiberty · **Joined:** Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:46 pm **Posts:** 84

AZ CRD wrote:

ATXKJ wrote:

I bought mine because I like the way it drives
- any mileage stuff is extra.

X2

Want mileage and to factor cost of ownership per mile out to six digits? Buy a Hyundai Elantra.

No, I don't want a hyundai. I like My jeep and possibly a diesel one if I can justify buying another one.

METCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:57 pm

You are indeed correct AZ CRD, if I wanted a very high mpg car I could go with a hyundai elantra. I was giving the OP the tools to see the actual difference in cost between a gasser liberty and a crd. Many look and see the $0.20 difference and think it is always cheaper to drive a gasser which is why I suggested a cost per mile analysis. Believe me I love my diesel for more reasons than fuel economy but that is a plus.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:59 pm

What maintenance is more expensive? Oil changes are EXACTLY THE SAME, especially if you are the type of person who wants your engine to last, you will be using synthetic oils no matter what engine they go in. So the cost is the same.

Alternator? I believe it is the same part, or very similar. Regardless, the auto stores DESTROY the dealer's prices for these. $150 with a lifetime warranty from AutoZone or Advance Auto for example. No question this is a fantastic deal over the $300 "You leave the dealership with it, the warranty is gone" stealership version.

Water pump? Every car is different, yet they all have the same procedure for this: Open your wallet or your toolbox and prepare for an extra-large helping of SUCK. These are becoming more of a long-term part replacement anyway, not like oil changes or belts that really are a "maintenance" item you do constantly.

Battery, accessory belt? Replace as needed. Same as any other.
Antifreeze, transfer case oil, differential oils? If you have a vehicle with these fluids, you have to change them. Gas or diesel is irrelevant.
Fuel filters? Yea, the filter might be a little more expensive, but it lasts longer and does more functions. The cost isn't much more in comparison.

Timing belt... Ok, this is the big scary monster that everyone is afraid of. HOWEVER, more and more vehicles are coming with belts these days, so that really isn't a huge cost difference either. If you have a timing belt in your gasser, you are up for the same levels of suck as the CRD or TDI owners are.
There are alternatives however: The belt is available from the original manufacturer (NOT MOPAR) for about $70, and the group here (or GDE) can get you the tools and knowledge to do it yourself. Even with that, you are in about the same position as with most any other vehicle even if you paid someone to have it done, and the belt only gets changed every 100k miles.

So what maintenance is so big and scary different than a gasser? Does anyone here own an RV or boat, and have you seen the prices for a "Generator" oil change or the "diesel oil change" from the places that service these vehicles?

RV Generator oil change: $50
RV Diesel Generator oil change: $90

So... Perpetuating and feasting off that myth much?

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:39 am

geordi wrote:

What maintenance is more expensive? Oil changes are EXACTLY THE SAME, especially if you are the type of person who wants your engine to last, you will be using synthetic oils no matter what engine they go in. So the cost is the same.

Alternator? I believe it is the same part, or very similar. Regardless, the auto stores DESTROY the dealer's prices for these. $150 with a lifetime warranty from AutoZone or Advance Auto for example. No question this is a fantastic deal over the $300 "You leave the dealership with it, the warranty is gone" stealership version.

Water pump? Every car is different, yet they all have the same procedure for this: Open your wallet or your toolbox and prepare for an extra-large helping of SUCK. These are becoming more of a long-term part replacement anyway, not like oil changes or belts that really are a "maintenance" item you do constantly.

Battery, accessory belt? Replace as needed. Same as any other.
Antifreeze, transfer case oil, differential oils? If you have a vehicle with these fluids, you have to change them. Gas or diesel is irrelevant.
Fuel filters? Yea, the filter might be a little more expensive, but it lasts longer and does more functions. The cost isn't much more in comparison.

Timing belt... Ok, this is the big scary monster that everyone is afraid of. HOWEVER, more and more vehicles are coming with belts these days, so that really isn't a huge cost difference either. If you have a timing belt in your gasser, you are up for the same levels of suck as the CRD or TDI owners are.
There are alternatives however: The belt is available from the original manufacturer (NOT MOPAR) for about $70, and the group here (or GDE) can get you the tools and knowledge to do it yourself. Even with that, you are in about the same position as with most any other vehicle even if you paid someone to have it done, and the belt only gets changed every 100k miles.

So what maintenance is so big and scary different than a gasser? Does anyone here own an RV or boat, and have you seen the prices for a "Generator" oil change or the "diesel oil change" from the places that service these vehicles?

RV Generator oil change: $50
RV Diesel Generator oil change: $90

So... Perpetuating and feasting off that myth much?

Wrong.

Not only does the CRD take MORE oil, but it takes a more EXPENSIVE oil too. Read your owners manual.

CRD has a timing belt that is VERY expensive to change unless you do it yourself. 3.7L does not.

CRD parts are many times more expensive. Take the thermostat for example. $125 for the CRD, $9.89 for the 3.7L.

Fuel filters need to be changed regularly at $25-$40 a pop on the CRD. NO such thing on the 3.7L

CRD trans. hold more fluid and has TWO filters.

CRD sensors need to be removed for cleaning regulary... 3.7 has none of this.

In cold climates, CRD needs additives for the fuel in Winter. 3.7 doesn't.

Want me to keep going?

Are you sure you own a diesel?? Maybe we are seeing why you've had the issues you've had.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:03 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

geordi wrote:

What maintenance is more expensive? Oil changes are EXACTLY THE SAME, especially if you are the type of person who wants your engine to last, you will be using synthetic oils no matter what engine they go in. So the cost is the same.

Alternator? I believe it is the same part, or very similar. Regardless, the auto stores DESTROY the dealer's prices for these. $150 with a lifetime warranty from AutoZone or Advance Auto for example. No question this is a fantastic deal over the $300 "You leave the dealership with it, the warranty is gone" stealership version.

Water pump? Every car is different, yet they all have the same procedure for this: Open your wallet or your toolbox and prepare for an extra-large helping of SUCK. These are becoming more of a long-term part replacement anyway, not like oil changes or belts that really are a "maintenance" item you do constantly.

Battery, accessory belt? Replace as needed. Same as any other.
Antifreeze, transfer case oil, differential oils? If you have a vehicle with these fluids, you have to change them. Gas or diesel is irrelevant.
Fuel filters? Yea, the filter might be a little more expensive, but it lasts longer and does more functions. The cost isn't much more in comparison.

Timing belt... Ok, this is the big scary monster that everyone is afraid of. HOWEVER, more and more vehicles are coming with belts these days, so that really isn't a huge cost difference either. If you have a timing belt in your gasser, you are up for the same levels of suck as the CRD or TDI owners are.
There are alternatives however: The belt is available from the original manufacturer (NOT MOPAR) for about $70, and the group here (or GDE) can get you the tools and knowledge to do it yourself. Even with that, you are in about the same position as with most any other vehicle even if you paid someone to have it done, and the belt only gets changed every 100k miles.

So what maintenance is so big and scary different than a gasser? Does anyone here own an RV or boat, and have you seen the prices for a "Generator" oil change or the "diesel oil change" from the places that service these vehicles?

RV Generator oil change: $50
RV Diesel Generator oil change: $90

So... Perpetuating and feasting off that myth much?

Wrong.

Not only does the CRD take MORE oil, but it takes a more EXPENSIVE oil too. Read your owners manual.

CRD has a timing belt that is VERY expensive to change unless you do it yourself. 3.7L does not.

CRD parts are many times more expensive. Take the thermostat for example. $125 for the CRD, $9.89 for the 3.7L.

Fuel filters need to be changed regularly at $25-$40 a pop on the CRD. NO such thing on the 3.7L

CRD trans. hold more fluid and has TWO filters.

CRD sensors need to be removed for cleaning regulary... 3.7 has none of this.

In cold climates, CRD needs additives for the fuel in Winter. 3.7 doesn't.

Want me to keep going?

Are you sure you own a diesel?? Maybe we are seeing why you've had the issues you've had.

For once I agree with you LibertyCRD.For ownership costs a gas will be cheaper,there is no doubt about that in the US(read "US").You own a diesel in the US because you want to and nothing more and must be willing to accept the higher costs and more maintenance involved.

When comparing a 3.7 KJ to a 2.8 CRD KJ there is a huge price difference for "cost of ownership" in which the clear winner in the 3.7 gas KJ.No fight intended and no I don't have diesel envy,the facts and cold hard #'s back it up.

Now to put more gas on the fire just from this section I have heard of one,maybe 2,CRD's getting past 100k before a major repair is needed(not counting timing belt).Heard of more 2.8 engine failures then the 3.7.Sure your going to see plenty of 3.7 engine failures,most seen on 150k+ engines and the fact there are much more 3.7's around then the 2.8 in the US,something like 700,000 gassers compared to 15,000 or so 2.8's.With those #'s the CRD engine failure rate far surpasses the 3.7 engine failures by a wide margin.Personally seen many 3.7 KJ's with 200k+ miles with original engine and trans(no major failures),can't say that about any CRD's.

bhc04 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:33 pm

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:26 pm

You can't run biodiesel in a 3.7l. You're still hopelessly dependent on Al Qaeda oil.

Torque, torque, torque.

Pleasant popcorn popper sounds eminanating from under the hood.

Turbo whine.

Did I mention biodiesel?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:42 pm

Synthetic oil is the same price for either the Mobil One gasser oil, or the Mobil One Turbo Diesel Truck (Delvac 1) products.

The CRD might have a timing belt where the 3.7 doesn't, so I guess that means that NO other vehicles have ever had timing belts. Interesting, I'm sure that there are a fair number of Honda, VW, and Toyota gasser owners that would be surprised to learn that. Modern car buyers are looking for vehicles that don't make any noise apparently, and belts are quieter than chains.

CRD parts might be more expensive, but that is because they last longer. Not all parts are more expensive.
The sensors need to be taken out and cleaned too often? This is an argument against a vehicle, that it might need maintenance (free) to deal with an EPA-mandated design?

I guess you've never looked under the hood of your gasser then Liberty, and seen that there are more than a few sensors in there that SHOULD be cleaned or replaced regularly to maintain a high efficiency operation. MAF sensors need cleaning just as frequently on a gas engine as on a diesel.

I don't use additives in my fuel in winter, and I have had no starting issues or operating issues. The problem I DID have with my engine was caused by a lack of oil after a turbo failure, which is JUST as likely a failure to happen to ANY ENGINE that has a turbo attached. Gas or diesel doesn't matter, and more and more gassers are starting to be delivered with turbochargers b/c the manufacturers have figured out that they increase the efficiency.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:58 pm

geordi wrote:

Synthetic oil is the same price for either the Mobil One gasser oil, or the Mobil One Turbo Diesel Truck (Delvac 1) products.

The CRD might have a timing belt where the 3.7 doesn't, so I guess that means that NO other vehicles have ever had timing belts. Interesting, I'm sure that there are a fair number of Honda, VW, and Toyota gasser owners that would be surprised to learn that. Modern car buyers are looking for vehicles that don't make any noise apparently, and belts are quieter than chains.

CRD parts might be more expensive, but that is because they last longer. Not all parts are more expensive.
The sensors need to be taken out and cleaned too often? This is an argument against a vehicle, that it might need maintenance (free) to deal with an EPA-mandated design?

I guess you've never looked under the hood of your gasser then Liberty, and seen that there are more than a few sensors in there that SHOULD be cleaned or replaced regularly to maintain a high efficiency operation. MAF sensors need cleaning just as frequently on a gas engine as on a diesel.

I don't use additives in my fuel in winter, and I have had no starting issues or operating issues. The problem I DID have with my engine was caused by a lack of oil after a turbo failure, which is JUST as likely a failure to happen to ANY ENGINE that has a turbo attached. Gas or diesel doesn't matter, and more and more gassers are starting to be delivered with turbochargers b/c the manufacturers have figured out that they increase the efficiency.

No MAF sensor on a 3.7 V6.It does have a MAP sensor and on a gas KJ it's good or bad,no cleaning needed and it's $20 for a new one and takes less then 2 mins to change.Oddly most company's are switching back to timing chains which now are much quieter then timing belts and will usually outlast the engine.

irollgen4s · **Posted:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:02 pm

148xxx on my CRD with the timing belt changed at 120ish k. Absolutely no issues. Lifted it at 145k and put bigger tires on at around the same time and no shudder trans engine or any other issues. I think my Thermostat went bad, but thats basically every car so i dont really count that.

edit: and also with the winters here in NY, never needs any fuel additives to start, turn the key wait about 10 seconds on the coldest morning and it starts right up without being plugged in.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:29 pm

AZ CRD wrote:

Turbo whine.

Turbo's are way overrated.Superchargers is where it's at,and nothing sounds better then a 14/71 blower whining on a BB with Pete Jackson's "noisy" gear drive.

Is it worth it?

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