thermostat and coolant

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:53 am

I'm not a coolant expert, but I assumed there was some design reason that the manufacturer would require HOAT.

NJCRD · **Posted:** Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:00 pm

LOL, yeah and we have guys running regular dino oil. I wounder how they feel about upgraded computers. :pepper:

SLS · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:36 am

The new long life orange and yellow OAT-based antifreeze formulas can typically go 5 years or 150,000 miles between changes.

Aluminum is more vulnerable to electrolytic corrosion than either copper/brass or cast iron because aluminum is a highly reactive metal. When the corrosion inhibitors in the coolant are depleted and the pH of the coolant drops to 7 or below, aluminum becomes a sacrificial anode and is eaten away.

Checking the pH of the coolant with chemically-treated test strips can help you determine if the coolant is overdue for a change. The alkalinity of a typical antifreeze/water mixture will vary depending on the additives in the antifreeze and the ratio of ingredients, but is usually somewhere between 8 and 11. The average for most antifreezes is around 10.5, but when diluted 50/50 with water and added to the cooling system the pH drops to the 8.5 to 9 range. Higher is not necessarily better, though, because some of the new long-life coolants have a pH of only 8.3.

ELECTROLYTIC CORROSION

A different type of corrosion can also occur in the cooling system even if the coolant is in good condition. Electrolytic corrosion can occur if the engine does not have a good electrical ground connection. Voltage from the charging system and ignition system will flow through the coolant to ground, creating electrolysis corrosion that eats away at the metal components in the cooling system. This may eat pin holes into the radiator or heater core and cause coolant leaks. It can even eat away at the inside of rubber hoses and cause them to fail also.

This type of corrosion can sometimes be detected with a voltmeter. Place the positive test lead into the coolant, and touch the negative lead to battery negative terminal or body ground. If the voltmeter shows more than a few tenths of a volt, current is traveling through the coolant and may be attacking the cooling system. Check the engine ground straps for loose or corroded connections. If a ground strap is missing, replace it (or install an extra strap if one is not enough).

The Europeans use less silicates and rely mostly on borates to inhibit corrosion. Their antifreeze also contains no phosphates because hard water can react with phosphates to form calcium and magnesium sediments. The Asians use phosphates but no borates and low or no silicates because they say borates may actually add to the aluminum corrosion problem if the coolant is neglected. The new long life coolants use an entirely different corrosion inhibiting chemistry that uses carboxylate organic acids instead of the silicates, phosphates or borates.

Evans Waterless Coolants which are the ONLY 100% waterless automotive engine coolant available on the market.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.
Super long life fluid - 750,000 miles/7 Years of service in over-the-road trucks & 250,000 mile/7-Year service life in light-truck and auto applications. Essentially nontoxic & biodegradable. Superior performance in all climates. Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:21 am

NJCRD wrote:

Been running 50/50 mix of green prestone and water. This will be 2 years this summer and will be refilling with the same. Have had no issues.

Using non HOAT coolant in our system may require a colant flush and change sooner than when using the specified coolant.

Also you don't know what effect it may have on the aluminum parts especially the head which is known to crack or warp due to excessive heat. The head is the weak part of this engine and keeping it cool is imperative, reading many posts on here regarding cracked heads due to poor cooling I would stay with the specified coolant..

There are a few posts regarding the dangers of mixing coolants. It causes jellying in the system and poor circulation alloying aluminum heads to warp or crack from excessive heat.

One of the members here (ColoradoCRD) was able to ward off a possible engine catastrophy by checking his system.

He was experiencing poor circulation in his cooling system and found that it was due to a clogged radiator. He cut it in half and posted pictures of what he found. Jellying was the cause due to mixing of non specified coolants inour CRD degrading its 5 year life efficiency to months.

Attached is the thread where the info can be found, the pictures are no longer visible.

viewtopic.php?t=58582

NJCRD · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:44 am

Well, when I had it flushed it was pressure flushed for 8 hours with a hose going through. The amount of sand and junk that came out was quite surprising. The system was completely clean before filling so there was no mixing what so ever.
Since everything here is speculative and opinion based on why one should do one over the other while still being counter productive in other areas baffles me.
Aside from a lift pump, off road mod, and a home made provent my engine is stock.
I never towed. Have no tunes and drive the pig like a rented mule.
HOAT is used from the factory, that's great, wonderful, terrific. Google search HOATs and see what the insides of GM vehicles and other vehicles and it seems more trouble then it's worth. They're primarily used, because they're more environmentally friendly compared to the older ethylene glycol anti freezes. Also, they offer greater convenience for the owner as they don't in theory have to do anything for 100,000 miles.
These engines are great, but we've all done things we feel makes them better or will help last longer. Tunes, SEGRs, elephant hoses, etc. Other's spend $ on oil analysis even though they change their oil every 6,250 miles. Why? People like to have peace of mind. Still owners on other forums run regular Rotella 15w-40 with $3 Fram filters and have over 100,000 miles without issue.
I plan on flushing my cooling system every 24,000 miles so I'm really not worried.
I'm just reporting that I have used ethylene glycol without issues, failures, or worries.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:09 pm

NJCRD wrote:

Google search HOATs and see what the insides of GM vehicles and other vehicles and it seems more trouble then it's worth. They're primarily used, because they're more environmentally friendly compared to the older ethylene glycol anti freezes.

I'm just reporting that I have used ethylene glycol without issues, failures, or worries.

GM uses the OAT coolant Dexcool(just a name) and all Prestone coolants regardless of color are also OAT coolants.Need to get your facts straight as you have not used Ethylene Glycol at all.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:13 pm

SLS wrote:

Evans Waterless Coolants which are the ONLY 100% waterless automotive engine coolant available on the market.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.
Super long life fluid - 750,000 miles/7 Years of service in over-the-road trucks & 250,000 mile/7-Year service life in light-truck and auto applications. Essentially nontoxic & biodegradable. Superior performance in all climates. Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion.

Never use amsoil coolant,does not protect your engine properly and is less effective(lower boiling point,higher freeze point).Also never use that evans junk,same as amsoil coolant.

Ford has a TSB stating that junk is never to be used in there engines and they spec the same HOAT coolant Chrysler does.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:38 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

NJCRD wrote:

Google search HOATs and see what the insides of GM vehicles and other vehicles and it seems more trouble then it's worth. They're primarily used, because they're more environmentally friendly compared to the older ethylene glycol anti freezes.

I'm just reporting that I have used ethylene glycol without issues, failures, or worries.

GM uses the OAT coolant Dexcool(just a name) and all Prestone coolants regardless of color are also OAT coolants.Need to get your facts straight as you have not used Ethylene Glycol at all.

Once again Troy, you are pulling "Facts" out of your poop chute. Prestone makes or sells all common varieties of coolants, not just OAT. http://www.prestone.com/products/antifr ... oduct_list

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:39 am

nursecosmo wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

NJCRD wrote:

Google search HOATs and see what the insides of GM vehicles and other vehicles and it seems more trouble then it's worth. They're primarily used, because they're more environmentally friendly compared to the older ethylene glycol anti freezes.

I'm just reporting that I have used ethylene glycol without issues, failures, or worries.

GM uses the OAT coolant Dexcool(just a name) and all Prestone coolants regardless of color are also OAT coolants.Need to get your facts straight as you have not used Ethylene Glycol at all.

Once again Troy, you are pulling "Facts" out of your poop chute. Prestone makes or sells all common varieties of coolants, not just OAT. http://www.prestone.com/products/antifr ... oduct_list

Read the MDS,all are OAT.

NJCRD · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:08 am

That's funny, didn't know you were there when I filled it up.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:08 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Read the MDS,all are OAT.

Dude, you must love making yourself look foolish all the time.

No oat here http://www.shamrockchicago.com/MSDSPrestLTAf.html

Only a minor ingredient in this one http://www.shamrockchicago.com/MSDSPrestELAf.html

Same as above, ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol are the main ingredients in this one as well. http://www.shamrockchicago.com/MSDSPrestELAf.html

oops, None in this one either http://www.shamrockchicago.com/MSDSPrestHDAf.html

Please stop pulling "facts" out from where the sun don't shine.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:01 am

You're IAT, you're OAT and you don't give a HOAT

...and I use G12...

nick2,5crd · **Posted:** Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:48 pm

finally i replaced the thermostat i bought from vm motori(jnl engineering.uk) for
75€(incl.shipping) but it was a behr(#c88780) thing.also i replaced the coolant
with the draining-filling "method" with distilled water for 7 times.
now everything is o.k.
:BANANA:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:13 am

nick2,5crd wrote:

finally i replaced the thermostat i bought from vm motori(jnl engineering.uk) for
75€(incl.shipping) but it was a behr(#c88780) thing.also i replaced the coolant
with the draining-filling "method" with distilled water for 7 times.
now everything is o.k.
:BANANA:

I have been thinking about another way to 2nd flush without having to worry about running out of distilled water.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:50 pm

The trucks/engines are important to all of us. Use what it recommended!

thermostat and coolant

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