The "Ultimate" lift Discussion thread

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Yeah, yeah...... I know...... the subject has been done to death a million times.
My thought here is to TRY to cover as many questions, concerns, options, etc. in one location.

I will EVENTUALLY be lifting my Liberty.
Having seen all the options out there, & having read all the threads, PLUS the "personalization" of popular kits, well,
there are still things I think can stand some clarification.

So.... here goes.

It's apparent that the 2.5" Frankenlift (in some form or another) is by far the most popular lift out there.
Being relatively inexpensive, and easy to install, this is understandable.
However, there are quite a few personalized versions of this lift out there.
Adding "clevis lift", extra spacers, etc. I know this is done for extra height & leveling.
JBA arms are a given, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Question #1. What is the primary reason some people chose to go with 4" rear springs?

I'm not a fan of stacking spacers when it comes to suspension. Actually, I'm not a fan of spacers at all.

Question #2. Other than cost, are there any other benefits to the JBA Adjust-a-strut other than built in adjustability?

Question #3. Is there any significant gain in ride height & tire size gained by going to the 4", or 6" JBA kit over the 2.5"??

I know 32's are the upper limit for a 2.5" lift. Will the 4 or 6 inch allow for 33's.... or larger??
<EDIT> Regearing to 4.10 (or higher) with the larger tires is also a given. There comes a point when physics takes over
to keep the drive train happy. My concern with this thread is primarily the advantages / disadvantages of the lift height, and the reasoning behind them. <EDIT>
Most of us use our Liberty as a daily driver, as well as a weekend off-road warrior..... but let's face it, the cool factor always plays a part.
I like look of a lifted Liberty, and I'm only gonna do it once, so I want to do it right, and as informed as possible.

Question #4. What about Lower arms??

Like I said earlier, as far as I'm concerned, JBA uppers are a given. I'd also like to have greaseable lower ball joints as well.
Is there anyone making replacement lowers?? Or can I just replace the ball joints in the stock arms with greaseable ball joints??

<EDIT #2>
Question #5. What about the RockFather lift from RRO??? Anyone try it??

I know they don't have the best rep for customer service, but is anyone using it?

Final Question. Are there any other sources out there for me to research??

This forum is without a doubt the most complete source of information I've found regarding Liberty specific information.
I'm told the folks at JBA are ready & willing to answer questions, etc., but really don't want to start "pestering" manufacturers
until I'm actually in BUY mode for the suspension.

I would appreciate any and all input regarding this topic.
If you have a 4 or 6" JBA kit, please PM me with specifics, info, anything at all.
Same for those of you with any version of the Frankenlift, or even your own "custom" lift.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 12:57 pm

never mentioned regearing going to 32s
as to the rest
I'll let others chime in
:POPCORN:

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 5:31 pm

NewOldTimer wrote:

Yeah, yeah...... I know...... the subject has been done to death a million times.
My thought here is to TRY to cover as many questions, concerns, options, etc. in one location.

I will EVENTUALLY be lifting my Liberty.
Having seen all the options out there, & having read all the threads, PLUS the "personalization" of popular kits, well,
there are still things I think can stand some clarification.

So.... here goes.

It's apparent that the 2.5" Frankenlift (in some form or another) is by far the most popular lift out there.
Being relatively inexpensive, and easy to install, this is understandable.
However, there are quite a few personalized versions of this lift out there.
Adding "clevis lift", extra spacers, etc. I know this is done for extra height & leveling.
JBA arms are a given, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Question #1. What is the primary reason some people chose to go with 4" rear springs?

:::::::carry more weight, little more height although with two extra isolators you're the same height

I'm not a fan of stacking spacers when it comes to suspension. Actually, I'm not a fan of spacers at all.

Question #2. Other than cost, are there any other benefits to the JBA Adjust-a-strut other than built in adjustability?

::::::::::adjustability is the main thing also if you add a aftermarket bumper later then you just crank it back up, also smaller diameter so the UCA will not hit the spring

Question #3. Is there any significant gain in ride height & tire size gained by going to the 4", or 6" JBA kit over the 2.5"??

::::::::With a "REAL" 2.5 inch lift you have the option of 254-75-16s, with a 4 to 6 inch you can more easliy run a 32 inch tire

I know 32's are the upper limit for a 2.5" lift. Will the 4 or 6 inch allow for 33's.... or larger??

::::::::::::::You need more than 2.5 inches to run 32s period, some have tired to run 33s but hard on the front diff and plus the fact with 4.10s you'll be loosing power, not worth it for maybe a 1/2 inch of height, unless you like looking at it since it is a DD

<EDIT> Regearing to 4.10 (or higher) with the larger tires is also a given. There comes a point when physics takes over
to keep the drive train happy. My concern with this thread is primarily the advantages / disadvantages of the lift height, and the reasoning behind them. <EDIT>
Most of us use our Liberty as a daily driver, as well as a weekend off-road warrior..... but let's face it, the cool factor always plays a part.
I like look of a lifted Liberty, and I'm only gonna do it once, so I want to do it right, and as informed as possible.

Question #4. What about Lower arms??

Like I said earlier, as far as I'm concerned, JBA uppers are a given. I'd also like to have greaseable lower ball joints as well.
Is there anyone making replacement lowers?? Or can I just replace the ball joints in the stock arms with greaseable ball joints??

:::::::::::::::::::No one makes replecemnet lowers replace LBJs with Moog greaseable

<EDIT #2>
Question #5. What about the RockFather lift from RRO??? Anyone try it??

I know they don't have the best rep for customer service, but is anyone using it?

::::::::::Some have used it BUT they only use OME front springs and shocks, the rear shocks and springs are of their own design or who knows from where, not worth it as you can buy a full OME kit for less money and less hassle

Final Question. Are there any other sources out there for me to research??

::::::::::::For what springs? shocks? other suggestions? Where ever you go regarding lifts you're going to get the same basic info

This forum is without a doubt the most complete source of information I've found regarding Liberty specific information.
I'm told the folks at JBA are ready & willing to answer questions, etc., but really don't want to start "pestering" manufacturers
until I'm actually in BUY mode for the suspension.

I would appreciate any and all input regarding this topic.
If you have a 4 or 6" JBA kit, please PM me with specifics, info, anything at all.
Same for those of you with any version of the Frankenlift, or even your own "custom" lift.

If you're going to install an aftermarket bumper and / or winch right away there are some other options but only then due to the fact the ride would be way to hard for most without.

answers highlighted
Thank you for your time :wink:

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Mon May 02, 2011 1:31 am

tommudd wrote:

NewOldTimer wrote:

<SNIP>

Question #1. What is the primary reason some people chose to go with 4" rear springs?

:::::::carry more weight, little more height although with two extra isolators you're the same height

:::: Since "I'm not a fan of stacking spacers when it comes to suspension." it sound like the longer springs may be for me.:::::::

Question #2. Other than cost, are there any other benefits to the JBA Adjust-a-strut other than built in adjustability?

::::::::::adjustability is the main thing also if you add a aftermarket bumper later then you just crank it back up, also smaller diameter so the UCA will not hit the spring

Question #3. Is there any significant gain in ride height & tire size gained by going to the 4", or 6" JBA kit over the 2.5"??

::::::::With a "REAL" 2.5 inch lift you have the option of 245-75-16s, with a 4 to 6 inch you can more easliy run a 32 inch tire

::::What about wheel / suspension travel with the 4 or 6 inch compared to the 2.5??:::::::::::

I know 32's are the upper limit for a 2.5" lift. Will the 4 or 6 inch allow for 33's.... or larger??

::::::::::::::You need more than 2.5 inches to run 32s period, some have tired to run 33s but hard on the front diff and plus the fact with 4.10s you'll be loosing power, not worth it for maybe a 1/2 inch of height, unless you like looking at it since it is a DD

<EDIT> Regearing to 4.10 (or higher) with the larger tires is also a given. There comes a point when physics takes over
to keep the drive train happy. My concern with this thread is primarily the advantages / disadvantages of the lift height, and the reasoning behind them. <EDIT>
Most of us use our Liberty as a daily driver, as well as a weekend off-road warrior..... but let's face it, the cool factor always plays a part.
I like look of a lifted Liberty, and I'm only gonna do it once, so I want to do it right, and as informed as possible.

::::: Just kinda throwing the question out there..... For a DD, 245's are my target tire.... to go significantly larger, I'd be discussing an SFA conversion.:::::

Question #4. What about Lower arms??

Like I said earlier, as far as I'm concerned, JBA uppers are a given. I'd also like to have greaseable lower ball joints as well.
Is there anyone making replacement lowers?? Or can I just replace the ball joints in the stock arms with greaseable ball joints??

:::::::::::::::::::No one makes replecemnet lowers replace LBJs with Moog greaseable

<SNIP>
Final Question. Are there any other sources out there for me to research??

::::::::::::For what springs? shocks? other suggestions? Where ever you go regarding lifts you're going to get the same basic info

::::::: Other suggestions mostly. Regarding the 4 or 6 inch JBA, since there seems to be so little info on either. Things folks have tried that worked, didn't work. I don't want to reinvent the wheel.:::::

This forum is without a doubt the most complete source of information I've found regarding Liberty specific information.
I'm told the folks at JBA are ready & willing to answer questions, etc., but really don't want to start "pestering" manufacturers
until I'm actually in BUY mode for the suspension.

I would appreciate any and all input regarding this topic.
If you have a 4 or 6" JBA kit, please PM me with specifics, info, anything at all.
Same for those of you with any version of the Frankenlift, or even your own "custom" lift.

If you're going to install an aftermarket bumper and / or winch right away there are some other options but only then due to the fact the ride would be way to hard for most without.

answers highlighted
Thank you for your time :wink:

Additional questions & comments highlighted....... :wink:

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon May 02, 2011 8:56 am

Since you are going for a 245-75-16 tire why are you even thinking about 4-6 inch lifts, normal OME lift will do ya great
Also 4 inch springs in the rear with a normal OME lift even with a clevis and top plate may sit the rear up too high,
remember OME 927s with 1/4 inch top plate from JBA, 1/8 inch clevis in front and one extra upper iso in the rear sits you level and at a good height.
Little confused as to where you want to be height wise or what you are trying to do. Or are you one of those "overthinkers" :jester:

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Mon May 02, 2011 10:49 am

tommudd wrote:

Since you are going for a 245-75-16 tire why are you even thinking about 4-6 inch lifts, normal OME lift will do ya great
Also 4 inch springs in the rear with a normal OME lift even with a clevis and top plate may sit the rear up too high,
remember OME 927s with 1/4 inch top plate from JBA, 1/8 inch clevis in front and one extra upper iso in the rear sits you level and at a good height.
Little confused as to where you want to be height wise or what you are trying to do. Or are you one of those "overthinkers" :jester:

I don't know that any major expense can be over thought.
I just like to get all the info I can to make the most informed decision as possible.

Tire size is not as important to me as wheel / suspension travel.
The more movement, the better the tire contact when on the trail.
Keeping all four tires on the ground as much as possible is the important thing.

On my last vehicle, I spent nearly a year going over all the "popular" lifts, studied the pros & cons, and came up with
a "hybrid" of sorts that suited my needs and vehicle.
I discovered by adding longer trailing arms and air bags to the coils, I could (and did) increase the
wheel travel of the front suspension from 8 inches to 15 inches. The air bags also allowed adjustability to the
ride height of the front when I added the heavier front bumper.
I had greater suspension travel from a 4 inch lift than most people with the same vehicle had with a 6 inch lift, and I spent less money doing it.
Couple this with a dual shock system at all four corners (lighter valving = faster response), an I had a suspension that worked as well
crawling over rock as it did in deep mud, or heavily rutted trails.

It is my goal to achieve the same functionality from whatever system I install on my Liberty.
I understand there are fewer options than even a Wrangler, and many will just scratch their head wondering why I
don't just follow what works for others.

My response: I have time. Most likely, over a year before I can save the funds to purchase the lift.
So why not spend that time gathering as much data as possible, so in the end I have exactly what I want.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon May 02, 2011 12:03 pm

Well Ok but still over thinking a simple thing when it comes to KJ lifts...just my :2cents:

WAY different than a SFA equipped whatever brand
Biggest thing holding us back is the amount of travel we can get unless you also go into cut CVs then not gaining really that much anyways. Doesn't matter which lift you go with as long as its a good full spring replacement type lift.
I've had mine torn apart, changed this and that, ran it for a day or two and swapped things back out all the time looking for what I like best and I'm finally at a good compromise for me and what I use mine for.
Over a year planning huh.....wow this is going to be a long thread :ROTFL:

so for the ultimate,.... using your term, not mine
think about this setup
JBA 4 inch with cut CVs , 245-75-16 tires and steel front diff , 4.10 gears ARB lockers front and rear
just point , lock, and go

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Mon May 02, 2011 5:26 pm

OME lift
235/85R16
done.

Above has be MOAB tested continually and often since 2007. I do acknowledge that UT is not known for it's off highway opportunities like other states however.

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Tue May 03, 2011 12:40 am

tommudd wrote:

so for the ultimate,.... using your term, not mine

I was hoping to start the "ultimate" discussion on lifts available for the Liberty.

I'm still hoping someone with any of the JBA systems chimes in......
... as well as someone who actually installed a RockFather from RRO.
Hell, I even want to hear the good & bad about the Daystar, even though I'd never install
a spacer lift of any kind on any vehicle I own.

I'd really like to know what people think of what they have......
What they wish they'd done differently......
What they would change & why......

I spent allot of time around desert racers in the late 80's & early 90's, and allot of whats
"standard" now was trial & error then. I've even seen experimental suspension systems
progress to full aftermarket production.

Who knows, when the time comes, I may very well throw a Frankenlift Premium II
under the KJ and be perfectly happy with it.
But we won't know that until it actually happens.

Like I said...... I've got nothing but time right now.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue May 03, 2011 11:14 am

I had a Daystar spacer lift:

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=29217

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:43 pm

Time to resurrect this thread!!! :ROTFL:

Please note the name change of the thread for clarification......

My timetable for lifting the KJ has improved somewhat, as I'm now looking
to have everything completed before Thanksgiving.

Although the Frankenlift II is still the front runner, I'm hoping some of you will chime in
with answers to a few more questions.

I was reading another thread recently in which someone had gotten the JBA 2.5" lift.
From the jist of the discussion, it appears the JBA struts offer "up to" 2.5" of lift.
I know we're talking semantics here, but ....

What is the difference between a 2.5 and a 4 inch JBA strut??
(I'll smack the first person that says 1.5"... :ROTFL:

)

I mean, I'd really hate to lay down the extra cash for JBA's only to find I can't crank them
any higher to level the Jeep once all the other add ons are in place.
Can I use 4 inch struts, and only crank them "half way"??
Is this something I should be talking with Marlon about??

Is there any difference in ride quality (on and off road) between the Franky and JBA???

My Libby is currently at 46K miles on the stock springs, and I've promised the Mrs. the ride will be
improved with the new lift / springs. Which offers the better ride and handling characteristics???

I REALLY want to avoid stacking ISO's, etc. in the back to level everything.
Will 4" rear springs yeild the same ride height, or will I be to high in the back??

I'll be back to pester everyone again with more "over thought" questions later.. :mrgreen:

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves. :pepper:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:59 pm

Batter Up
Tom on deck
Come on guys, lets see some hustle out there !

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:27 am

I didn't see the answers to 2 questions I personally would have asked you

These are not pass or fail questions :p

Q1 : do you plan to add steel bumpers to front or rear in the near conceivable future

If no, 927's w/ 948's or JBA25s
if yes, 790s w/ 948's or JBA25s

Info:
My JBA25's have held up superbly with my rear bumper and ridiculous amount of cargo weight - they're excellent coils
My 927's have NOT, held up to my front bumper

Had i had it to do over, i would have gone with 790s in the front and JBA25, 948s or BDS rear coils, OR.. 4" JBA's with out extra iso's but that's with adding 210lbs-ish of steel to the rear

with no expectation of rear steel I would have stuck with the JBA25's as well as they've held up with the rear steel I have

running 245-75's you'll have no stuffing issues with 2.5-3" of lift and pushing closer to 4 just accelerates issues with the CV's

no steel, 927's w/ 2-3 conduits in the clevis or a 3/8ths top plate with JBA25/948/BDS rear coils and one or two extra top isos will be adequate lift for 245's, cheaper, and room to grow

--
Q&A
What is the difference between a 2.5 and a 4 inch JBA strut??
about 1600 bucks

the 4" uses 4" rear coils and a different front
includes front UCA's
the tri link extension to help relieve stress on the rear UCA/pinion angle 0_o
brake line extensions
and i think the front coils are a little longer

Can I use 4 inch struts, and only crank them "half way"??
Is this something I should be talking with Marlon about??
i suppose it's possible, but your rear coils are non-adjustable on the 4" and youll be raked ~2"
I honestly think he'd advise you if you want 2.5 to go with the 2.5

Will 4" rear springs yeild the same ride height, or will I be to high in the back??
the 4" rear coils will be about 0.75" higher than 948/jba25's with 3 iso's - unless you have something to weigh it down, IMO will ride high and put more strain than necessary, to run 245-75s, on the rear UCA

if you want to run 245-75's the solutions pretty simple and painless, you'll have a lot less headache maintenance wise with the 2.5 range of products regardless

not sure why you'd be worried about stacking iso's in the rear, the upper lip on the rear coil seats is more than adequate to stack 3 total top iso's, they aren't going ANYWHERE

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:32 pm

Been away this weekend but
how are you going to use the KJ
what tire size do you want to run
are you willing to regear
again asked above but after market bumpers etc?

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:48 pm

tommudd wrote:

Been away this weekend but
how are you going to use the KJ?

Daily driver / weekend off roader. Mostly wooded trails, but the occasional trip to Badlands & Cliffs are on the agenda

tommudd wrote:

what tire size do you want to run?

245-75-16. Looking to pick up some "Moab" rims or aftermarket with appropriate backspacing.

tommudd wrote:

are you willing to regear?

Regearing is not out of the question, just won't be happening right away, as I've gotta wear out my 235-70-16 Destination ATs first.
The current tires have less than 10K on them, and if I drop $$$ on new rubber, the "boss" will kill me dead.

tommudd wrote:

again asked above but after market bumpers etc?

I'd like to add a front bumper, but haven't seen anything I like, ......unless I can get the specs to Jeepin Jarheads TR.
I'd like to try to duplicate that, but this also won't be happening right away

Answers to questions in bold.

I'm starting out slowly, and will be adding things as I go.
(Much as I did with my last 4X4.... took me 7 years to "finish" the build.)

To me, the suspension is the most important element, and I want to do it right the first time.
I know allot of folks have stacked iso's out back with no problems.... I'd just rather not stack spacers.
Never liked it, from an asthetic or safety standpoint.

I will be adding skid plates soon after the lift. I may be going custom here, as Skid Row is a bit pricey, and stockers are a bit weak.

Still kicking around whether to go OME or JBA in the front.........

Anyone out there with a JBA lift care to chime in here?!?

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:58 am

If money is no object the 4 inch JBA is a great setup, I would never go 2.5 inches as you may want taller tires some day
BUT also the Frankenlift gives you almost the same height as the JBA 4 inch for less money and no adjustments down the road unless you add a top plate etc
With the JBAs you do away with any spring/UCA hitting when going max height as well.
For the money the OME 927s do great, my first setup went 100,000 miles (and its now on Wildmans, of course it does nothing but sit there on his)!
If you're thinking of adding aftermarket bumpers then the 790s up front is the way to go, BUT would be way too rough of a ride until you do get them.
So from the sounds of it, I would say the best for you is the JBA 4 inch setup, good ride and handling now and after you install bumpers, able to adjust the height you want, plus longer springs in the rear so you will not have to use or stack spacers ( which by the way you can't see or do they come out)

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:44 pm

OK..... here's where I'm at right now:

2.5 - 3 inch lift is the target.... as I don't have an unlimited budget, and cost is a concern.

Frankenlift II in the front. (Saw you can buy a kit for the front only on their site.)
with JBA upper control arms.

JBA 2.5" coils & Bilstein shocks in the rear.

No clevis or plates up front for now.
I will pick up a set of upper iso's for the rear, just in case it's sits low in the back.
I do need to find new bump stops front & rear, as I couldn't locate them on either site.

Cost wise, this comes in at about $100 less than a full Frankenlift, and about $500
less than going full JBA.

However, I'm still kicking around the full JBA 2.5 as I like the idea of the extra clearance for the UCA's,
and the adjustability when accessories are added.

:roll:

UGH! Someone needs to make up my mind..... :ROTFL:

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:02 pm

NewOldTimer wrote:

OK..... here's where I'm at right now:

2.5 - 3 inch lift is the target.... as I don't have an unlimited budget, and cost is a concern.

Frankenlift II in the front. (Saw you can buy a kit for the front only on their site.)
with JBA upper control arms.

JBA 2.5" coils & Bilstein shocks in the rear.

No clevis or plates up front for now.
I will pick up a set of upper iso's for the rear, just in case it's sits low in the back.
I do need to find new bump stops front & rear, as I couldn't locate them on either site.

Cost wise, this comes in at about $100 less than a full Frankenlift, and about $500
less than going full JBA.

However, I'm still kicking around the full JBA 2.5 as I like the idea of the extra clearance for the UCA's,
and the adjustability when accessories are added.

:roll:

UGH! Someone needs to make up my mind..... :ROTFL:

OR-R-R-R-R-R-R-R........................

After speaking to "The Boss", looks like I may just pop on the extra cost and go full JBA 2.5.
If this is gonna be a one time thing, we want to make certain we get the best ride possible, on and off
road. If that means spending a little more up front, so be it.

Gotta love it when the Mrs. gives her blessing on spending additional money on the Jeep. :BANANA:

RED_KJ_666 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:54 pm

Do Her up with a 6" 33's make you look like a Boss, CV's will hate you but you'll get good at changing them. :frankie:

This Ultimate thread also appears to make no mention of doing a SFA swap..... I feel like we've been left out in the cold :ROTFL:

NewOldTimer · **Posted:** Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:15 pm

RED_KJ_666 wrote:

:frankie: Do Her up with a 6" 33's make you look like a Boss, CV's will hate you but you'll get good at changing them.

This Ultimate thread also appears to make no mention of doing a SFA swap..... I feel like we've been left out in the cold :ROTFL:

I don't have approximately $15,000 to invest in my Liberty.........

Besides, if I wanted that..... I'd go all nostalgic and find an '84 Ford F150 shortbed with TTB front suspension......
..... and proceed to install a 6 - 8 inch long arm kit, dual gas shocks on all four corners, full skids including axles,
4.88 gears with ARB locker in the Dana 44 up from, and a Detroit Locker in the 9 inch rear, 37 inch MT tires,
and custom bumpers front & rear.

That is...... IF I wanted to invest $15,000 in a trail rig....... :lol:

The "Ultimate" lift Discussion thread

Who is online