Can I Block off the EGR?

rayamash · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:52 am

I want to put a block in front of the EGR, sandwiched between the egr and incomming pipe, and block of the EGR. Will this cause problems?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

That will not eliminate the CEL for EGR as the MAF will be reading an incorrect flow.

cerich · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:04 pm

yeah it wont work so the SEGR was developed a few years back, just search segr and you will find a TON of stuff.

The Green Engineering tunes also pretty much disable the EGR

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:37 pm

Green Diesel Engineering's tune and other products are amazing things, and I highly suggest them. For the ultimate in I-know-the-egr-is-dead knowledge, WITHOUT a CEL ever again... Use both the SEGR device AND the GDE tune.

The SEGR electrically unplugs the EGR, it cannot open. Why do that, instead of a simple block-off plate? B/c the programmers thought of that already and installed a nanny-system into the EGR program. The computer activates the EGR, then looks for a corresponding drop in the airflow across that stupid MAF sensor. No change... The CEL is set into "bring-your-CRD-back-to-the-dealer-for-$$$-insufficient-EGR-flow code.

Nasty little buggers, those programmers. The SEGR device registers the request for the EGR, and passes the MAF signal through a small circuit that changes the reading just enough to keep the computer happy - no CEL.

GDE's tune, meanwhile, offers LOTS of other benefits such as removing the MAF sensor from bothering the engine's performance (it CAN make the engine run strangely with low power or limp mode if it is sending garbage readings) as well as GDE's tune kills the need for the OTHER airbox sensor (also part of the nanny system) while making your CRD a LOT more fun to drive. The way it was ORIGINALLY before Chrysler de-tuned all of them in a "recall" reprogram which offered zero increases in functionality.

Do both, your CRD will be very happy.

camo · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:24 pm

Yep.... you will still get the light. That is what i have and I call it PEGR (Plate EGR) LOL :mrgreen:

I have a 1/8" steel plate at the egr inlet and it fits perfect, now my engine is dinner table clean but I still get the p0410 code (low flow egr). If you have the money you will be better off getting the GDE tune.
It would be interesting to know what is the sensor that detects the lowflow..... so we can try to trick it some how. does anyone know???

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:01 pm

SEGR and the plate is the only 100% way to do it.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:34 pm

camo wrote:

Yep.... you will still get the light. That is what i have and I call it PEGR (Plate EGR) LOL :mrgreen:

I have a 1/8" steel plate at the egr inlet and it fits perfect, now my engine is dinner table clean but I still get the p0410 code (low flow egr). If you have the money you will be better off getting the GDE tune.
It would be interesting to know what is the sensor that detects the lowflow..... so we can try to trick it some how. does anyone know???

The sensor is the MAF sensor, and the only way to "trick" it is by using the SEGR device circuit.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The Green Diesel tunes negate the need for an SEGR. We have not had a single customer with any EGR issues after a tune installation and several customers have been running our tunes for 2+ years now. There is no additional soot build up in the intake with a tune and your oil quality will be much improved...it will will stay clean for several thousand miles. Customers with oil analysis have shown the change intervals can be extended up to 12,000 miles and the soot loading is less than a stock jeep after 2,000 miles. Soot does not do any favors to your bearing life.

Additionally, our tunes are the only aftermarket modification that is proven to pay for itself at the pump within 30,000 miles at current fuel prices. Hard to beat better performance, improved fuel economy, reduced engine wear, much more lively drive ability and extra cash in the pocketbook.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:53 pm

I can second that. I have had an SEGR installed for three years. It was needed with the InMotion Stage II tune which was the best available before GDE came on the scene. I completed all my back to back dyno testing between GDE and IM with SEGR enabled, then disabled it when I decided go with GDE. No problems with EGR. Oil goes about 3K before showing ANY color at all. Jeep has over 100K on it.

DOC

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:46 am

It might still take time (somehow) for my oil to remain clean, but mine is black again within 100 miles. Always has been.

I have the EHM, not a chance of EGR b/c the pipes "mysteriously" fell off the back of the engine and were plugged. With that said, nothing seems to keep the oil clean for much time at all.

The requirements of the EPA are that any on-road vehicle have a certain level of environmental controls, as dictated by the design. Companies sell products tagged as "for off road use only" as a way to avoid being hassled for enabling the individual vehicle owner to disable those same controls. I do believe that GDE has done an amazing job of preventing damage to our systems while still remaining within the bounds of "legal" vehicle emissions system operations. IF this observation is incorrect, and the operation is completely eliminated, then yes, the SEGR is not needed anymore.

Where my belief that the SEGR can still be beneficial is based is from observation of the electronic commands to the EGR from the computer, scanned using the AutoEnginuity system. Whenever the go-pedal is released while in gear, the EGR signal shifts from closed to open for approximately half a second. The problem I see with this, is that while the computer is commanding it this fast, the motor is most likely not fast enough to respond to it before being commanded to move in the other direction. This could lead to a "vibrating" back-and-forth of the motor, causing its eventual burnout. I prefer to avoid this possibility, and I had already installed the SEGR, so I run both. Would I get a code by installing the SEGR bypass plug? I honestly do not know. That would be something I will try eventually.

As for everyone else, obviously by selecting the ECO tune, you are making a choice for better engine life, and your CRD will thank you for it. There is no better solution available (except for the hot tune!) so if you already have the SEGR, don't worry about using both. If you have nothing... Get the GDE tune, your will LOVE it.

camo · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:47 pm

ok, I just took my plate off the egr, it was causing a p0299 code (low boost). so, as far as im concern, im donr with the plate on the egr, i'm gonna try the orm now untill i get the money for a GDE tune.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:36 pm

EGR plate should have NOTHING to do with low boost, unless the plate was on the intake elbow, and was leaking boost out.

If the plate was located somewhere else, I would suggest pulling off the intake hoses and checking thoroughly for holes / cracks. Something else is going on.

camo · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:34 pm

@ geordi. will the ORM prevent egr from opening 100%?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:05 am

Yes, but you will get a CEL for it. The MAF sensor is needed by the nanny system to detect whether the EGR has opened or not, as the electric actuator has no feedback indicator. As such, if the MAF is "not working" then the engine cannot correctly determine EGR operation, so defaults to not using it at all.

camo · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:11 pm

geordi wrote:

Yes, but you will get a CEL for it. The MAF sensor is needed by the nanny system to detect whether the EGR has opened or not, as the electric actuator has no feedback indicator. As such, if the MAF is "not working" then the engine cannot correctly determine EGR operation, so defaults to not using it at all.

got it. so will the ecm still detect high or low boost situations?

graycenphil · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:17 pm

Besides the CEL, is there any downside to the ORM? I mean, can I just unplug the MAF, enjoy the better mpg and cleaner engine then plug it back in and clear the code for the emissions test in two years?

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:30 pm

graycenphil wrote:

Besides the CEL, is there any downside to the ORM? I mean, can I just unplug the MAF, enjoy the better mpg and cleaner engine then plug it back in and clear the code for the emissions test in two years?

Before the Tune, I ran with the MAF sensor unplugged, I reattached it a year later for an inspection and the light wouldn't go off. The MAF failed for some unknown reason during the time it was unplugged and needed replacing.

graycenphil · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:45 pm

But replacing it fixed it? I would guess perhaps the MAF was just ready to fail, and would have if it was plugged in too?

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:56 am

camo wrote:

geordi wrote:

Yes, but you will get a CEL for it. The MAF sensor is needed by the nanny system to detect whether the EGR has opened or not, as the electric actuator has no feedback indicator. As such, if the MAF is "not working" then the engine cannot correctly determine EGR operation, so defaults to not using it at all.

got it. so will the ecm still detect high or low boost situations?

It should - That is controlled entirely by the MAP sensor located on the back of the intake, under a 4mm hex socket cap screw. If (when) that MAP gets filled with filthy gunk from the combination of CCV oil (do the EHM to fix) and EGR soot (ORM, SEGR, or GDE Eco-tune to fix) you end up with a wonderful carbon-based MUD that just coats everything in sticky filth.

As the MAP is a pressure-based sensor, you can imagine how being completely insulated in gook would prevent proper readings. The downside to this (assuming all else is working properly) is that your turbo can actually be OVERBOOSTING, which is the same as over-speeding!

This is NOT something to ignore. I have had now two turbo failures, of the stock design and NOT being driven excessively hard. I have an EGT gauge and boost gauge (after the first failure) so I know that this second unit has been treated properly. It failed with approximately 112k miles on it, by developing a wobble and striking the housing... Causing an oil leak that thankfully I caught before it did anything catastrophic.

I do not trust this choice of turbo, but it is what we are all stuck with. So running the turbo, the ONLY things regulating the speed / boost are the MAP sensor and the vacuum controller solenoid on the passenger side of the engine. Keep that MAP sensor clean, and I would strongly suggest a boost gauge for backup - NOT connected to the computer. If you see boost above 25 - That is BAD and indicates a problem in either the sensor or the controller.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:00 am

graycenphil wrote:

But replacing it fixed it? I would guess perhaps the MAF was just ready to fail, and would have if it was plugged in too?

That is a good possibility, the MAF is actually a little heater circuit, that is "cooled" by the incoming airflow, and the amount of cooling changes the resistance, which determines the total airflow across the calibrated gap. Its science beyond me.

The other possibility of a failed MAF is that the wires on that plug and the OTHER airbox sensor are crap and a common failure point. (both are only part of the EGR nanny system, but cause havoc in performance if they are partially-failed and still connected, sending garbage data intermittently.)

Can I Block off the EGR?

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