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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:41 pm 
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We couldn't find coolant in the oil.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Did you do a uoa?

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:52 pm 
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no, the mechaninc did a visual and said that no foam in oil so no coolant.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Worth the money to do one. Just because you can't see coolant in the oil doesn't mean that it isn't present. $30 is cheap if you can confirm no coolant in the oil. If you do not have coolant in the oil I would not be looking for an internal leak.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:14 pm 
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I emailed Keith to see what he thinks about the possibilty of an EGR related failure causing this.

DOC

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:23 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
Worth the money to do one. Just because you can't see coolant in the oil doesn't mean that it isn't present. $30 is cheap if you can confirm no coolant in the oil. If you do not have coolant in the oil I would not be looking for an internal leak.


Ok I will get one done.

But couldn't the combustion gases be escaping from some other area that wouldn't be affecting the oil at all?

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:30 pm 
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At this point, I'm with OnTheHunt - Its time for a chemical test of the oil, just to be absolutely certain. I think you are right that it isn't a head gasket or oil into the water... But that water is going somewhere. Maybe a crack near a glowplug and water is getting into a cylinder directly? It might also be worth pulling the plugs and see if any show anything other than sooty blackness on them.

You definitely have a tiny tiny leak somewhere... The problem is where.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:04 pm 
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I can check the plugs, and while I'm at it I can remove the EGR valve.

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Last edited by racertracer on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Keith thinks it is unlikely that combustion gas could be leaking through the EGR valve/EGR cooler and overwhelming the pressure cap. He suspects that your installation of a thermostat that did not open properly caused hot spots in the head and cracked it.

If Keith is right, keep going with the K-seal. Nothing to lose and it just might work if it is not a long, wide crack.

DOC

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Last edited by DOC4444 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:21 pm 
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OK

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:39 pm 
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If you are burning coolant in the combustion process you will see it on uoa.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:48 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
K-seal has not cured the problem... the leak is back with a vengence.

The combustion test kit arrived today and it proved that combustion gases were present in the coolant.

Head gasket problem, cracked head, warped head, anything else it could be?


Not CRD specific but in general for aluminum head engines, head gasket goes first, and head warping second. A cracked head is generally from pushing the temp gauge way up too high and not having any coolant in the head. I have had many aluminum heads straightened (including diesels) by competent repair shops that would bolt the head down onto a heave plate and place the head into an oven, heat it up and let it cool down.
When it comes to cracked heads, some are easy and others are impossible, depending upon the crack. Since manufacturers do not make any money off a repaired cylinder head, they will use all kinds of fear tactics to scare shops and owners into buying a new head.
I strongly suspect Chrysler/VM are going to follow the same fear tactics all other manufacturers do to sell more parts to make money. Unless they do it in their repair center and if their cash register goes Cha Ching, it is then an approved practice.
In the era of the Ford Escort, cylinder head repair shops would weld an Escort cylinder head that was cracked in half back together, just to prove they could. Of course the structure of the Escort head was an open design that could be done.
If I had a CRD head that was warped, I would not hesitate to send it to a competent shop to see if it could be straightened. Cracked, it would depend on where it was cracked, but very unlikely.
Chemical sealants would only work if something like an intake runner or EGR cooler was cracked, if the wonder goo works, you better buy a lottery ticket while your luck holds out.
For the EGR cooler, plate the EGR and bypass the EGR cooler, problem solved.

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Last edited by warp2diesel on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:55 pm 
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One of my dissapointments of this engine. Aluminum head. Doesn't make sense when you look at the rest of the engine. Weight savings I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Are you getting white smoke out the tail pipe on the first few minutes of running the vehicle?

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:53 pm 
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WolverineFW wrote:
Are you getting white smoke out the tail pipe on the first few minutes of running the vehicle?


No I am not...no smoke at all and the motor runs and sounds great.

The K-seal doesn't hold up.

The Jeep is scheduled to go in the shop tomorrow at 8:00 am for exploratory surgery.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:56 pm 
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So, did the patient expire on the table?

DOC

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:10 pm 
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The mechanic said he had an emergency to take care of prior to working on mine so the surgery has been pstponed till tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:18 pm 
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It's a warped head, the problem is near cylinder number four.

According to chrysler parts, factory new cylinder heads are no longer available for our engines, remanufactured ones are.

There is a $300.00 core charge and tomorrow i find out if the rebuilt head comes with valves attached.

Lead time is 7 days.

The mechanic working on my Liberty is a local Chrysler qualified diesel mechanic who has succefully done 6 TB on our CRD, and rebuilt a few of them. Head gasket problems, I guess this area is flooded with CRD's, I've only seen a few.

The engine is in pieces the injectors looked very dirty and the rubber gasket around the injectors is in poor condition and needs to be replaced along with the crush washers.

Shall I have the injectors cleaned by a qualified injector cleaning facility or shall I leave well enough alone? Advice appreciated here.

The K-seal has settled at the bottom of the radiator and the radiator needs replacing becasue of it. Yes I followed directions and shoock the K-seal bottle for a minute before putting it in.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"


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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:12 pm 
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Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that.

I'd be interested to see what Mopar comes back with as an answer on the valve question, you already know about mine and I want to help if I can.

With regard to the injectors, I would have them professionally evaluated by an ADS shop. I wouldn't necessarily take a mechanic's visual inspection of something like them... They DO exist in a rather hostile environment, y'know? A little dirt and charcoal on them is probably normal. :mrgreen:

There are so many trucks up there, you probably have a Bosch shop nearby and don't even know it. An ADS shop will have the ability to completely process and pop-test the injectors so they all fire at the same pressure, and are back to factory spec. They should also have the washers... But that is less of an issue. I had a set done on my Jetta (ok, upsized the nozzles at the same time) and when they came back... WOO Momma! Definitely worth it.

If you get my head, I'd be interested to know if there are any shops in your area that could do that oven-cooking thing that Warp talked about, that way you get back up and running... And there is still a spare head available to the board, with valves.

--Jim

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Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Solv-Tec disagrees that your radiator needs to be replaced due to using K-Seal. If you think about it, if this was the case, you would need to replace the block and head as well.

Get a measurement of how warped the head is (i.e flat plate and feeler gauge). It would be useful for everyone to know along with how hot you got the motor and for how long before you shut it down.

If you decide to toss your radiator, please throw it in my direction so I have a spare.

DOC

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