I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:31 pm

geordi wrote:

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that.

I'd be interested to see what Mopar comes back with as an answer on the valve question, you already know about mine and I want to help if I can.

Jim, I am considering it.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:32 pm

What price were you quoted for a new head? I'm thinking I might potentially be replacing a head on my KJ and while I haven't bothered looking up the price of a new head it cannot be cheap.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:39 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

What price were you quoted for a new head? I'm thinking I might potentially be replacing a head on my KJ and while I haven't bothered looking up the price of a new head it cannot be cheap.

I will let you know as soon as the order goes through.

List is $1200 for the head alone and the parts guy and mechanic both believe that it comes complete with the valves attached, this will be determined tomorrow. I will let you know what I come up with.

The mechanic noticed something ... he said that the motor had been tampred with previously. He said that the timing tensioner had been replaced, he said that the original tensioner had a black nylon seal..... the one he removed had a new blue seal indicating that it was replaced. Also there is an old rusty colored water stain just below the water pump running down the engine he said an indication that there was a problem and may have been repaired.

I remember that from day one I had the coolant light on and filled the coolant bottle with a small amount of coolant while driving the CRD on my first drive home back in 10/2009 but I didn't experience another episode till 3 months later and more episodes after that. This small leak may have been the cause of the failure or the added problem casued by my Thermostat installation may have worsend the problem.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:02 pm

If it does come with the valves and rockers for that price... The head is basically being given away for free.

I know from expensive experience that the rocker assemblies are $60 EACH, and of course... You need 16 of them. Yuck. In my case, that did not include the valves themselves, JUST the rockers and springs... Plus install. So if that is $1200 for a reman head with all the moving parts as well... You should buy a lottery ticket. I'm skeptical that Mopar would sell anything like that as a complete unit either, since complete units of multiple parts are usually tagged as "assembly" and this isn't.

On the tensioner and the discovery of that water trail... Oog. Sounds like this has been building for some time, sorry to hear that.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:21 pm

Both my original tensiors have a blue seal around them:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:24 pm

racertracer wrote:

I will let you know as soon as the order goes through.

List is $1200 for the head alone and the parts guy and mechanic both believe that it comes complete with the valves attached, this will be determined tomorrow. I will let you know what I come up with.

Thats about what I remembered from previous discussions, that would be nice if it included all the valves and rockers etc, look forward to hearing back on that.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

Both my original tensiors have a blue seal around them:

Mine too... But I can't claim "original" b/c I wasn't the first one to open the front of the engine. While I have 2 tensioners from the two engines... I know the one that is in use is blue, can't remember about the other one. I wouldn't think that a seal color would matter much anyway. Either it has spring tension, or it doesn't. Keith from GDE is of the opinion that the spring will probably never wear out b/c it is so huge, but if any of the pulleys or the tensioner are dirty from grease expulsion - Replace them PRONTO, that is the failure mode.

FYI: I had to replace my first-ever failed accessory idler pulley on my 97 Grand Cherokee last week - The bearing came apart and expelled all the balls after 250k miles. At the same time, the power steering pulley exploded AGAIN (stupid f-ing plastic pulley!) for the third time since we bought this thing.

Not a bad run for a bearing tho, which tells me I am fine with leaving my TB pulleys alone until the next interval. 85k miles from now.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:06 pm

No word yet from Chrysler parts as to wether or not the remanufatured cylinder head has the valves already installed.

What do you all think about using a used cylinder head? I can get one delivered at a great price.

Anyone know the part numbers for the head gasket?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The head gasket has three sizes available. There is a tab on the intake side of the gasket (per recollection) with either 0,1, or 2 holes with the following part numbers and thicknesses:

0 holes 5166481AA 1.32mm
1 hole 5166482AA 1.42mm
2 holes 5166483AA 1.52mm

The thickness used in the factory is determined by the cylinder liner protrusion, so do not use a thinner gasket than required or the sealing surface could be compromised. A thicker gasket will slightly reduce the compression ratio...very slight as we are talking about a tenth of a millimeter.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:34 pm

You never indicated the amount of warpage. Perhaps GDE can comment on whether resurfacing up to what point is viable. With the cams in the head, I assume it is minimal.

A used head should be easy to pull the valves from to check guide/stem wear and then lap in if good. Unless you need to replace the guides, a valve job should not be too bad.

DOC

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:51 pm

geordi wrote:

Mine too... But I can't claim "original" b/c I wasn't the first one to open the front of the engine.

I've had the one CRD since it was a few years old with 30k on it, I would say its fair to say that it was original, blue = original in my book.

racertracer wrote:

No word yet from Chrysler parts as to wether or not the remanufatured cylinder head has the valves already installed.

What do you all think about using a used cylinder head? I can get one delivered at a great price.

Dang I really wanted to know if it came with valves.

I think a used cylinder head would be fine, heck I would buy it myself if Mr Laforge had not already offered it to you.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:00 pm

Well Sam, nothing is carved in stone until the cash changes hands and the Fedex guy starts complaining about the weight!

I'll keep you in mind depending on how this goes. I don't know yet either what Rafael's dealer said about the head and valves... But interestingly enough, all the online usual suspects for parts are now showing "N/A" for the cylinder head. This is a change from just a couple days ago, I don't know what has happened... But I don't think its good for us.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:20 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

heck I would buy it myself if Mr Laforge had not already offered it to you.

Who is he?

So here is the question:

Shall I purchase the remanufactured cylinder head with the gasket and bolts from Chrysler with a guarantee and a price tag that is over 1500 dollars plus labor, or buy a used cylinder head with no guarantee at 1/4 of the price including the new gasket and bolts but no guarantee plus labor?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:27 pm

racertracer wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

heck I would buy it myself if Mr Laforge had not already offered it to you.

Who is he?

Mr Geordi Laforge.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:30 pm

Hey Raf - If that is a bare head for $375, and they are going to move all your valves and hardware into it (so there's your labor) rather than just dropping it into the engine complete... No hard feelings. I'd have to consider that seriously too, if the situation was reversed.

My concern in either option (dealer or this other guy) is that if this is a bare head and for whatever reason your hardware can't transfer over (and that is a BIG unknown for me personally, I don't know anything about that stuff) then you are staring down the barrel of $1200 for the hardware / rockers / spring assemblies... And then the cost of the valves on top of that.

That can be a deep money pit very quickly, but if you can get out of it for $375 plus the grease work... I'd probably have to chance it too.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:55 pm

It's a complete head w 68K, $450 including whichever gasket i need and brand new bolts.

The seller had it inspected and the machine shop said that it is straignt with no leaks, he has papers. $475 delivered.

My local machine shop can check both heads and install new guides and whatever parts it may need, labor is minimal.

Jim, i just don't see spending $1050 plus shipping for your used cylinder head when I can get a remanufactured one with a garantee from the dealer for 1450 dollars with everything installed.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:34 am

That wasn't plus shipping, that was complete. But I understand your position, as I said - no hard feelings. My opinion of dealer "guarantee" claims isn't worth the paper they (usually won't) give you the guarantee written on. Maybe I just keep finding the bad ones here in the South where enforcement of better business practices tends to not amount to much.

I do think you are getting a great deal if this is truly complete, but I highly doubt the shipping is going to be just $25 unless he doesn't insure it at all. That is a bad idea, which is why I quoted it for Fedex and insured for $1200. I'm shocked that it came up with ground shipping for only $46, but there it is.

I'm willing to negotiate for a fair deal based on known provenance of a part and the related value of a new component... But I still think the dealer would have been completely reusing your hardware and valves for their "guaranteed" head. Mine wouldn't require anything other than bolting it to the top of the block. Hopefully you are getting the same thing, time will tell.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:59 am

Jim,

The only reason I would consider your cylinder head is that it has 10k less miles on it, but for $650 more I don't see the justification.

Update: Just got back from the dealer and the Chrysler remanufactured cylinder head does come fully assembled, the cost is approx 1000 dollars including the head gasket and bolts.

I have decided that I want the Chrysler cylinder head and warrantee, so I will be ordering all the parts directly from Chrysler and paying for them myself without getting the service department involved. Doing it this way allows me to get a discount on the parts. The service manager and mechanics are Ok with that and are directing me.

On a good note, the cylinder head replacement work includes swapping out all the parts needed for the timing belt service (103,000 miles) and the new glow plugs with an ECU update. I will be contacting Keith at GDE to reprogram my hot tune soon after.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:23 pm

Still waiting for the remanufactured cylinder head to arrive, parts guy is checking to see if it is coming directly from Italy.

The mechanic says that the engine was worked on in the past.

I looked through all the maintenance paper work that the previous owner gave me during the transfer and no where did it say that it had major work done, so I decided to call the service department listed on the paperwork to see.

And here is what I found, the service manager at Lustine Dodge in VA said that the CRD had a coolant leak that was determined to be from a leaky head gasket and that the previous owner was made aware of the problem.

The previous owner failed to inform me when asked prior to purchasing the vehicle if there was any leaks or any major work or problems that i should be aware of, he said that there were none.

Hence the reason why I had a coolant leak on the 500 mile drive home the day I took possession of the vehicle. Once I got it home the coolant leak was minimal or non existant, I didn't drive it on long trips much so it didn't have much of a chance to leak. A major coolant leak was undetectable until recently.

It's been 2 years since I purchased the vehicle, anybody have any legal advice on this? Any attorneys out there that can answer this question?

Do I have enough reason or legal cause to take the previous owner to small claims court?

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:47 pm

You could try... At the very least, you would force him to respond to the complaint in court, and possibly get the cost of this repair job as a judgement. Compelling him to cough up for it... That I don't know anything about. Can they garnish him or make it a compulsory thing and you get paid directly so he is just reimbursing the court? Don't know.

I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak

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