CRD Misfire

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

I wasn't feeling terribly patient, so I went by the dealer and picked up the 2nd gen filter head. I was planning on doing both that and the MAP sensor, but when I lost one of the nuts that holds the filter head on, I decided that maybe I should wait until I was less tired, and had better light before trying something where a part could fall into the intake.

So, I put the new filter head on, filling it mostly with diesel, but probably 1/3 with PS Diesel Kleene. I bled it. I hooked the unhappy injector back up, fired the engine up. I ran the engine at 3,000 RPM for about 2 minutes. It actually seems to run reasonably well at a high RPM. Back at idle, it's unhappy. It seems happier than it was, but it is clearly not in a good way.

I decided to take a look at the old filter. It was surprisingly dirty. When I changed it the two previous times, the filter material looked like that day I put it in, clean and white -- this is why I hadn't stressed out about being 6,000 miles behind on changing it. On the filter I took off it was clearly dirty -- basically a dingy gray-brown.

I'll have the injector tested tomorrow, and when I get it back I'll clean the MAP sensor. Reading around the list it looks like I have plenty of winter projects to get this monster in top shape.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Oh, one question. If I do have to replace the injector, the FSM mentions having to "program" the computer with the injector details. Is this true? Am I stuck going to a dealer?

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:32 am

mtgstuber wrote:

Oh, one question. If I do have to replace the injector, the FSM mentions having to "program" the computer with the injector details. Is this true? Am I stuck going to a dealer?

Yes, or have Keith at Green Diesel Engineering reprogram it.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:06 am

Sorry about the stupid comment, now fixed, regarding reversed wiring which is on glow plugs not injectors.

Anyway; per GDE injectors are designed to last the life of the engine but injectors really don't like dirty fuel which is what may have caused your current problem given the condition of your filter. That said as I noted injectors can be cleaned and serviced by a good diesel shop, which may or may not include the dealer although a good dealer would send the injector(s) out for service if they don't do it on site. Give that some consideration before purchasing new injector(s) which run like $700-800 each depending on the source.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

So I dropped my CRD off to have the injectors pulled / checked etc. I was talking to the tech about the dirty fuel filter. He noted that the fuel tank is plastic, so it shouldn't be a source of dirt. He mentioned that the tank is vented, and wondered if that might be the source of the contamination. Having just dropped it off, I haven't had a chance to check it out, but it made sense to me.

Has anybody else run into a fuel contamination problem? I'm specifically thinking about the doohickey on the fuel filler. (See figure 14-210, page 239 of the 2006 parts fiche). I live on 5 miles of graded road out in eastern Washington, where it's rained twice since June. Clouds of dust follow us every time we drive into town, so if there is a leak in the system, it wouldn't take much to get grime into the system. Thoughts?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:51 pm

I strongly doubt it although it's not absolutely impossible. Most crud in fuel (gas or diesel), especially in a plastic tank, comes from the fillling station often from 1) bad fuel they got, 2) poor filtration on their storage tank, 3) pumping your fill-up from the dregs of their tank, or 4) just because the diesel sat their long enough to grow things. Several of these reasons are why folks recommend buying diesel from places that sell a lot so what you get is fresh but even that's not a guarantee.

I've never gotten really bad diesel but I've sure gotten bad gas.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:25 pm

Dirt. DIRT.

Check the turbo to air filter hose, that hose is known to tare due to oil contamination from the CCV.

A broken, deteriorated or ripped hose at that location can suck in lot's of dirt.

The rip occurs near the turbo at the metal srew strap.

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:58 pm

I think you have more than one problem.

I have a hard time with the search function on this site so I usually do a site-specific search on Google. If you search for the glow plug wiring harness you will get two major discussions that took place here:
1.) The old harness was not always installed correctly (so it reads the wrong glow plug, hence your confusion)
2.) The new harness, before hooking it to the new glow plugs, requires the ECM to be updated.
3.) Surefire way to detect rotten plug is by checking the resistance of the plug:
ATXKJ posted on 5/4/201:
"You can also trace a wire up to the 4:1 connector - pull that and you can measure all 4 glow plugs - to ground - you should have ~ .5 to 1 ohm (note: that's really low make sure your meter can read it) - bad ones are typically 50-100+ ohms.
pull the cap off of the plug you think is bad - remeasure the resistance - it should now be open."

If it is a plug, you will have replace four (due to the changeover to stainless GP's), install the new harness and then have the ECM reflashed. I feel your pain, I will literally start and hopefully end this next week. Then I will have to pay Keith to get my ECM flashed again...maybe he'll through in a turbo for free :SOMBRERO:

That said, my second glow plug from the front of the engine is out again and has been out since July. On my first cool (50 deg) morning, it runs rougher than it should for about 1 minutes but then it smoothes out. Since this is the third time its happened, my panties just refuse to wad up anymore. If we all get together, my toast will be that all future diesel Jeeps parts be as dependable as the d n CEL light! It was off for a year thanks to Keith and the good folks at GDE but has been on again since July until I get the GP's replaced.

While I'm at it. I will replace the fuel head. Its been unplugged since before last winter (yes, you read that right but I was lucky a fuel times and it is not worth the worry to go through another winter without the heater) due to the plug being burnt and melted. I'll need to remove it anyway to get the real (not reader-based) GP #4 up near the firewall.

My point is, unless you live up in Alaska or central Canada, your glow plug is likely not why your jeep is running rough but it may still need to be replaced as colder weather comes in. If your plug is burnt on your fuel heater, you may as well replace it when digging in to get to the GP's. Good luck.
:5SHOTS:

B2

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

racertracer -- I can totally see how a damaged hose would suck things into the intake manifold, and then into the cylinders, but how would it end up getting in the fuel filter? Or am I misunderstanding your comment?

boilermaker -- I agree I have multiple problems. Of course, at the moment it's not starting it that's a problem, it's how it runs.

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:20 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

racertracer -- I can totally see how a damaged hose would suck things into the intake manifold, and then into the cylinders, but how would it end up getting in the fuel filter? Or am I misunderstanding your comment?

boilermaker -- I agree I have multiple problems. Of course, at the moment it's not starting it that's a problem, it's how it runs.

Yes, and my long-winded answer pointed out why I thought that the glow-plug, though you were thrown a code, was not th reason your Jeep was running rough (unless of course it was in 40's and probably needed to be even cooler to for it run rough for an extended period).

Good luck,
B2

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:39 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

racertracer -- I can totally see how a damaged hose would suck things into the intake manifold, and then into the cylinders, but how would it end up getting in the fuel filter? Or am I misunderstanding your comment?

boilermaker -- I agree I have multiple problems. Of course, at the moment it's not starting it that's a problem, it's how it runs.

It was a word of warning. You mentioned excessive dust, well dust deteriorates the turbo and engine parts and is the reason for the existance of an air filter. I would check that hose on your next time around. Dust destroy mechanical parts quickly it is like sand paper in there.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Well, I just talked to the shop. They noted that when injector for the problematic cylinder is hooked up, it's exhausting out the intake through the turbo.

They are going to put a scope down into the cylinder and investigate, but based on the behavior they're thinking a bent valve or a worn cam shaft. (I may have this last bit wrong).

It seems like a serious engine overhaul is in my future. So . . . I'm at 81k miles. If I'm paying somebody to tear this thing down and fix it, what else should I have done at the same time? At a minimum I'm thinking the timing belt, and replacing the intake hoses. Other things I should consider?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:13 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

Well, I just talked to the shop. They noted that when injector for the problematic cylinder is hooked up, it's exhausting out the intake through the turbo.

They are going to put a scope down into the cylinder and investigate, but based on the behavior they're thinking a bent valve or a worn cam shaft. (I may have this last bit wrong).

It seems like a serious engine overhaul is in my future. So . . . I'm at 81k miles. If I'm paying somebody to tear this thing down and fix it, what else should I have done at the same time? At a minimum I'm thinking the timing belt, and replacing the intake hoses. Other things I should consider?

Have them pull the front cover and check the timing belt. When Sam's belt skipped a tooth and trashed the rockers it was backfiring out the intake.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Thanks CATCRD. I'll talk with the techs in the AM. Am I correct in thinking -- assuming this is the root problem -- that they'll have to pull the belt to correct it, such that I should just have them change it?

Any other thoughts on stuff I should have done while they are in there?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:11 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

Well, I just talked to the shop. They noted that when injector for the problematic cylinder is hooked up, it's exhausting out the intake through the turbo.

They are going to put a scope down into the cylinder and investigate, but based on the behavior they're thinking a bent valve or a worn cam shaft. (I may have this last bit wrong).

It seems like a serious engine overhaul is in my future. So . . . I'm at 81k miles. If I'm paying somebody to tear this thing down and fix it, what else should I have done at the same time? At a minimum I'm thinking the timing belt, and replacing the intake hoses. Other things I should consider?

Like CATCRD said I had a timing belt that skipped and trashed the rockers, when the belt skips and the valves impact the piston the rockers are designed to fail so the valves are not damaged. For whatever reason pulling the #3 injector connector made it smooth out a little and the backfiring to get better, this is what it sounded like with all the injectors hooked up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5v4mJb31sA

Then with the injector disconnected(little less of a "POP" noise to it).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMv4zLtBzM

So if it really is backfiring through the intake you may have a messed up valve or a problem similar to mine.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Ugh. That sounds really similar to the way mine does.

Did you farm it out or do the repairs yourself?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:23 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

Ugh. That sounds really similar to the way mine does.

Did you farm it out or do the repairs yourself?

I did the repairs myself. pulled the front cover and timing belt off the engine, the cam gears and front cover, then the intake manifold, found the rockers damaged, replaced those, retimed the engine, but it back together and it ran.

Why did yours do what it did....I don't know, your below the TB change interval and mine was above, I suppose its possible a intake valve is sticking open, which was my initial assesment on mine, which turned out to be the opposite, the exhaust valves were not opening, rather than an intake valve not closing.

If you dig around a little and look at the links in the noob guide in the timing belt section(at the end) you will see my comments on the whole thing as well as pictures.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:12 pm

$700-$800 for an injector, ugh. :dizzy:

Dealer service, ugh.
Last time the dealer gave me 11 scratches and a dent. :banghead:

Hey, what happens in the parking lot over-night is not their legal responsibility.

I don't know if this would work to clean our injectors but this is what I recently used for my gasser.

Pressurize the 10cc syringe with the carb cleaner and then release via the injector with short bursts by the push button. Note the spray pattern.

Note the hole punched into the plunger seal to make this work.
You may want to keep the white plastic syringe plunger to retrieve the rubber seal every so often.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 am

Looks like it may work.

What is it connected to, what is the power supply?

Squeeto · **Posted:** Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:56 pm

Just a hobby variable power supply set to 5v.
I think 5v would be safe for our trucks too.

CRD Misfire

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