Convince me that a CRD is worth it.

doughboyea · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:43 am

Hello Everyone,

I realize that most posting here are fanatics and love the diesel. I've been a fan of diesel ever since learning to drive on my mom's 1982 MB 240D (which weighed around 4000 lbs and received 28+ mpg from a 4 cylinder). So the noise and clatter don't bother me.

I work in a construction field and deal with plenty of mud, curbs, steep hills and tracking pads. I also commute 60 miles a day (aside from on site mileage). The diesel seems to make sense where it has V8 level torque (with 4x4) and can handle upwards of 30 mpg.

I am currently using an Acura TSX and she's getting beaten up.

So, with the given maintenance costs and huge price difference of $0.30 per gallon between premium (TSX) and diesel, I need convincing that a diesel is truly worth the cost.

I am a serious buyer...

Thank you,

Dough

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:50 am

Do your own convincing...... we are not here to convince you.

Spend a few months and do some reading.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:59 am

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:18 am

A CRD would be a perfect vehicle for you if it weren't for:
They are all at least 5 years old.
More then a couple have been butchered up by previous owners and you would be getting their problems.
At 100k miles they require a timing belt$$
The CRD in the US was a Chrysler marketing test and they were not serious about maintaining them.
Bean counters helped engineer them :dead:

Now if you think they are still for you then there are a few low mileage ones showing up every now and then :SOMBRERO:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:32 am

Are you competent with a wrench and do you maintain your own vehicle? If the answer is no then I wouldn't even consider the CRD. With many high ticket and single source parts, maintaining this beast is not cheap at best and worst case a potential money pit.

As for fuel economy, 30mpg is a myth. OK some hyper-milers are getting it with great care and exclusively highway driving but any winter, city, off road, site or even what most would consider "normal" driving habits will knock a good 20% off this for starters. Switch to harsh winter city driving and you can half this figure.

Add the mediocre fuel economy to the high maintenance costs and you end up with something that's really quite expensive to run with a very real risk of having a huge repair bill if something major fails. And don't expect any support from Chrysler, we're on our own!

There you go! Are you convinced?

Scott Langohr · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:13 am

Man! These previous guys paint a pretty bad picture. For myself, I love this truck and am scared to death that some idiot or a deer will run into me and I will not have it anymore. I have done a lot of things to mine to head off problems that others found and worked out a fix for. I may not have been so happy with mine if I did not have these guys on this site. This site is full of the most knowledgeable and inventive people of any site I have ever visited. That being said, expect to keep up with the fixes for problems and do not expect a lot of help anywhere but here. There is not another vehicle out there like it and I am keeping mine until there is. To bad we have an EPA keeping us from the benifits of diesel and the great vehicles that competition and experience would have produced. I am sure the guys on this site could have taken this experimental vehicle and fixed everything that it was lacking for a few dollars more and given us a near perfect product. I am getting there with this one thanks to these guys. I am down to the GDE TCM tune and a torque converter update and I will be sailing along confident in this truck. The timing belt will be coming up but the Libby will be paid for by then. Normal maintenace after that. Read this site before you buy one and keep looking for these guys to sell theirs. They will have fixed some of the problems already. Keep in mind that people that post here are having a problem or sovling a problem. You seldom see posts of the guys that are not having problems. If you are not willing or can't afford to do the fixes, buy something else. Mine is not for sale.

PS I get between 25 and 28 MPG driving local roads and expect the TCM tune to improve that.

secondechomatt · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:17 am

as far as the mpg's go, I get 27 combined. The only things I have done are contained within our own noob guide. ORM, EHM and cleaned the map and cac tubes.

I am going to get a tune from GDE that should push me over the 30mpg barrier.

Also, there are not a ton of high dollar parts. other than the engine and related electronics, this is a liberty. There were a few of those made. parts are easy to come by. Everyday, there are those of us that are willing to try out new things, to further eliminate the high dollar items like the thermostat (inline, in hose are a couple of options), the fuel head (cat conversion). Timing belts have to be done on many modern vehicles, this shouldn't be a surprise and should be factored into the monthly cost of the vehicle.

It is easy to maintain yourself. On a scale of 1-10 for mechanics, I'm like a 2. There is a ton of room underhood.

For me, the pros of having a reliable solid axle 4x4 with a REAL transfer case that gets the same mpgs that my focus did, all while being a much better assembled vehicle made the decision easy. Overall, I don't know that I have ever been this satisfied with a vehicle purchase. Even if it is 6 years old!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:06 pm

30 is entirely possible but it depends on your driving. Last month on a 2k mile trip with three adults and luggage I got 30.9 MPG driving at a GPS indicated 70 mph (the speedometer is about 6% high) on a tank of good fuel and several other tanks were in the very high twenties. My summertime in town driving is between 23-25 mpg but I like the AC and the go pedal :BANANA:

I also average 18-20 towing our 3000-3500# camping trailer :JEEPIN:

And again I enjoy the skinny pedal :jester:

tregrrr · **Joined:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:37 pm **Posts:** 59

mileage is also VERY dependant on how FAR you go before letting it cool off!! I may be looking at a t-stat soon, but I do about 4 miles before its warmed up and 8 miles total each way. I watch the EVIC (trip computer) go down for the first half and come back up on the second half. When I do longer running around, I find the numbers go up further, so the OP with his 60 mile commute would not affected so much.

If you can keep away from the skinny pedal (and I can't) 30 is not un realistic on 60 Mile @ 60MPH commuting... so long as you get up to 63 first and lock up the tranny before hitting the cruise control.

You may be tempted to play with it though, particularly if you find a nice low mile unit and fix (GDE tune, Sam's Noob Guide) it, the easy maintenance is not onerous, just important!

I have only had mine for two months now and am still over the moon but YMMV

:JEEPIN:

naturist · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:40 pm

Why I God's name would I want to convince a single other person to go diesel? There's already a worldwide shortage of diesel fuel. PLEASE stick to gas.

doughboyea · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:00 pm

Thank you to all those that had a meaningful reply. I do appreciate your candor and your time in responding. I've been reading through several posts prior to posting this thread and was looking at problems that people have reported. Like poster Scott Langohr stated in his reply, there are others who do not post if they do not have problems. So, hence why I labeled this thread "Convince me..." hoping to entice those loving their diesel libbys to reply.

I hope that other's would chime in their respective opinions whether it be pros, cons or wishes.

Just of note, I am willing to do work on my own vehicle. I am not afraid of tools or hard work. I read the noob guide and can honestly say that not only am I impressed with the wealth of information contained in that thread, but also that all of those maintenance fixes are quite within my abilities.

Dough

Greasey Bob · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am **Posts:** 228

If it is not going to be run on mostly free fuel, i.e.---wvo. Then get a gas vehicle. Of course--That requires lots of work also, and usually a part time job in a restaurant to get free grease. But we average 160-180 mpg of diesel fuel purchased. The grease costs $.04 for each gallon to filter. The Jeep is the greatest SVO vehicle I have ever seen. And the only reason I would own it is to run on veg oil. Otherwise get a GMC Terrain, or a Jeep gas or some American vehicle the economy sure could use it.

doughboyea · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:51 am

Greasey Bob wrote:

...Otherwise get a GMC Terrain, or a Jeep gas or some American vehicle the economy sure could use it.

In regards to the economy, as I am buying used, it doesn't really matter which vehicle I purchase. Profits from used vehicle purchases go into the pockets of the dealer selling the car, not the manufacturer.

Restoring an antique home plus a "bun in the oven", as worthwhile as it may be to cultivate veggie oil, I will just not have the time to do so. However, that will change in the distant future and with a little more research, could become a viable task. Thank you for reminding me of this aspect.

Dough

ibHenry · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:12 am

If it wasn't a diesel we would be driving something else. 30 MPG average The only things I have done were in the Noob section, but for a 4 cylinder 4x4 it can't be beat. :pepper:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:02 am

doughboyea wrote:

Greasey Bob wrote:

...Otherwise get a GMC Terrain, or a Jeep gas or some American vehicle the economy sure could use it.

In regards to the economy, as I am buying used, it doesn't really matter which vehicle I purchase. Profits from used vehicle purchases go into the pockets of the dealer selling the car, not the manufacturer.

Actually, I think it does matter. Putting quality, service and support issues aside one of the main justifications I hear from the buyer of an import vehicle is "yes it cost more up front but it retains it's resale value so I get that back when I sell it". By increasing demand for used domestic vehicles you will increase their resale value. This will impact the demand for new domestic vehicles.

nissanfrontier · **Joined:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:09 pm **Posts:** 145

Do not get it, if your the kind guy that likes Mercedes turbo diesels then maybe. Get a CRD if you like tinkering,oil changes,getting 30mpg,rumble of 300 plus pound tourqe,real rear axle,4 wheel disc brakes, HD automatic 5speed, have boat to pull CRD rocks. In all fairness I should have got new Toyota CREW cab 4x4,auto however they were even more money go figure. Think I paid $26,800 for jeep new. Right now I have mine for sale think I am going to get new Wrangler Unlimted. My initial thought was CRD liberty would hold it's value like Wrangler or Toyota 4runner. I am still seeing $20k 2005 4runners for sale. I would be hard pressed to get that kind money out mine. Maybe the value of CRD will go up if there is problem with oil shortages, maybe war with Iran.

doughboyea · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:29 pm

nissanfrontier wrote:

Do not get it, if your the kind guy that likes Mercedes turbo diesels then maybe. Get a CRD if you like tinkering,oil changes,getting 30mpg,rumble of 300 plus pound tourqe,real rear axle,4 wheel disc brakes, HD automatic 5speed, have boat to pull CRD rocks. In all fairness I should have got new Toyota CREW cab 4x4,auto however they were even more money go figure. Think I paid $26,800 for jeep new. Right now I have mine for sale think I am going to get new Wrangler Unlimted. My initial thought was CRD liberty would hold it's value like Wrangler or Toyota 4runner. I am still seeing $20k 2005 4runners for sale. I would be hard pressed to get that kind money out mine. Maybe the value of CRD will go up if there is problem with oil shortages, maybe war with Iran.

I was thinking of the Tacoma crew cab with the TRD off road package prior to looking at this Liberty. But at nearly $25,000 starting for a used one with low mileage, it is at least $10,000 more than the CRD. At that price, I might as well buy a brand new vehicle with a warranty. Like many others, money is tight and buying a new car is out of the question.

Dough

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

For work commuting, buy a AWD Honda CRV, Toyota Rav 4, etc. with some cosmetic issues and never look back; I passed on a hail damaged CRV before diving wallet-first into CRD and wish I had a do over, LOL! The CRD is neat but not worth the hassle if you are buying fuel at the station and if you pay someone to work on your vehicles RUN from the CRD! You mentioned construction, if a CRD is accidentally filled with off-road regularly, you have your own shop/wrench where it can be upgraded/maintained AND you have a taste for the unusual then it may make sense...

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:16 pm

nissanfrontier

I read in Automotive weekly that Jeep Wranglers are tops in holding their value even above toyota :jester:

CRD's are not doing too bad :JEEPIN:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:43 pm

nissanfrontier wrote:

Do not get it, if your the kind guy that likes Mercedes turbo diesels then maybe. Get a CRD if you like tinkering,oil changes,getting 30mpg,rumble of 300 plus pound tourqe,real rear axle,4 wheel disc brakes, HD automatic 5speed, have boat to pull CRD rocks. In all fairness I should have got new Toyota CREW cab 4x4,auto however they were even more money go figure. Think I paid $26,800 for jeep new. Right now I have mine for sale think I am going to get new Wrangler Unlimted. My initial thought was CRD liberty would hold it's value like Wrangler or Toyota 4runner. I am still seeing $20k 2005 4runners for sale. I would be hard pressed to get that kind money out mine. Maybe the value of CRD will go up if there is problem with oil shortages, maybe war with Iran.

Most US CRD's were bought for less then $25,000 so $10,000-$13,000 for a CRD is real good considering most 4 runners are over $40,000 to start.

Convince me that a CRD is worth it.

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