Thought I could squeak by... (timing belt)

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:33 pm

Got the new lifters from Eurocam today.

Height wise they are the same as the new design OEM lifters, about 1.365" - 1.385".

UPDATE: Actually, they are sprung like the new OEM lifters; they were so stiff that it took a little working to get them moving. The seller sent me a note.

Sure enough, they just needed more pressure and a little working. Thx, W!

DELETED: Unlike the OEM (new) lifters, they aren't internally sprung - so in that regard they're like the OEM (original/2005) versions.

So, both new OEM and Eurocam lifters are sprung and seem to operate the same way.

Gen-1 (unsprung?) design seems to use the lifters as a fulcrum and use a little slack in the valve-spring to take up valve lash.
Gen-2 (sprung) lifters seem to also add internal springs to the lifter to assist with taking up slack.

I don't know how to account for the reduced height of the original lifters that came out of the engine - whether it is due to compression when they failed, wear, or design. That'll remain a mystery I suppose, but I'm also speculating there's enough room in the design to accommodate the difference without the lifters rattling around; The difference appears to be only 0.03" or so.

Left is a new OEM lifter, right is a new Eurocam lifter:

Now, just waiting on a missing gasket to begin reassembly of the top-end.

FYI - Mark

SBrooks · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:30 pm **Posts:** 85

SLS wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

papaindigo wrote:

I know this may be heresy to some but the only "required" part for a TB job is the belt,.

While that is true Murphy always shows his face soon after just doing the belt,even if everything else looked good.

I can't tell you how many waterpumps and hydrualic tensioners I've had to replace within 5k-20k of a timing belt change where the customer was to cheap to buy the whole kit,now they get to pay all that labor again when.There are some real nice kits out there that come complete with everything including the WP and hydrualic tensioner(if it uses one) for a good price(generally less then $200).

I would be real interested in you source of those good prices you mentioned.......

Yea, I'd like to know more about these sources as well. Can anybody comment about them?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:02 pm

Update - I just got confirmation and a tracking number from GDE for the tools - scheduled to arrive Wednesday. The parts are scheduled to arrive via UPS on Thursday. Great timing... ; ' )

The libby is disassembled and awaiting the parts - the fun soon begins.

Mark

SBrooks · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:30 pm **Posts:** 85

I'm going to replace my Libby's timing belt/water pump/etc when I get back this fall from being deployed overseas. I'd greatly appreciate if anybody who's done this before can comment on where the best place(es) is to get the parts from and perhaps even a part number list for everything needed to do the job.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:05 pm

From day to day there is no best place to get the OEM items. Best to shop around and pay attention to shipping costs to see where you can get the best bottom line. The exception is belts where you can save a small bundle going the after market ones like Gates (serpentine Gates K061130 and timing Gates T336) which are just as good as OEM and in many cases the same as OEM just with a different label. I've found Amazon usually has a good price on these with free shipping.

If you want a parts # list drop me an email or check out viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54092 . My list is based on that list but organized a bit differently and has a modest number of other or alternative part #s.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:06 pm

I picked up radiator hoses and belts from Amazon.com:

Qty Item Cost
1 Gates 22022 Upper Radiator Hose $12.46
1 Gates K061130 Multi V-Groove Belt $35.17
1 Gates 23071 Radiator Hose $33.68
1 Gates T336 Timing Belt $71.80

Found a lot of the OEM parts here: http://www.mmaautoparts.com/

Qty Item Cost
1 Mopar Part 5142798AA BELT TENSIONER $86.83
2 Mopar Part 5142573AA IDLER PULLEY $86.60
1 Mopar Part 5066921AA TIMING COVER GASKET $13.74
1 Mopar Part 5142985AA WATER PUMP $184.00
1 Mopar Part 4864575 WATER PUMP GASKET $2.65
1 Mopar Part 5142601AA ENGINE COOLANT THERMSTAT $106.78
2 Mopar Part 5066806AA THERMOSTAT GASKET $4.26
1 Mopar Part 55038729AA CHARGE AIR COOLER HOSE $132.25
1 Mopar Part 55037730AD CHARGE AIR COOLER HOSE $92.00

The kit and parts arrived the last few days, so I'll be putting things back together this week.

Mark

SBrooks · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:30 pm **Posts:** 85

Thanks, guys, for the responses. The info will definitely come in handy later. If anybody else has info to post to advise me on this subj, I'd sure appreciate reading your posts.

Steve

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:16 am

Pulled the last trouble-maker today (water pump), that little :furious:

can be quite the bear to remove. Turns out, it's a lot easier if you pull the item on the left (three holes) that bolts to the back of the pump - clearing the way to reach the back two 13MM nuts/studs that attach the pump to the block.

The three bolts on back, securing the manifold to the pump, are 8mm - and a 1/4 inch ratchet, universal joint, and 8mm 6-point socket worked well enough to pull them. Used a short extension to get a good angle on the top-rear bolt. Took a little juggling to get the right angles. I'd left the hose to the oil cooler connected on the bottom - if I'd pulled it the bottom bolt would've been easier to reach.

Tried to find a way to reach the 13mm nuts without pulling that back piece. I think the only alternative there would've been to remove the bolts on the front of the pump itself and put the new front w/impeller on the old back. It's got an o-ring so I think that'd save a lot of grief if you were brave enough to try.

Tomorrow I'll be putting the top back on..

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:27 am

After pic on the water pump - much nicer.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:38 am

Mark, How did the intake turn out after it was cleaned and what solvent did you use to clean it?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:18 am

racertracer wrote:

Mark, How did the intake turn out after it was cleaned and what solvent did you use to clean it?

Not sure I'm done yet, but I just used kerosene. The primary purpose was to rinse off anything abrasive without completely flushing out the cam bearings (not wanting them to start dry). It really wasn't bad in the first place - as it's had the SEGR for 135k of it's 165k life.

I'll be taking pictures as it goes together.

Mark

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:45 pm

Part of getting the engine cover to drop without knocking the rocker arms off is tying the dipstick and tubes out of the way so that the FCV hanging off the intake doesn't hit them on the way down. Also tied off the transmission dipstick tube, same reason - clearance when dropping on the cover.

What seemed to work was to rotate the cover CCW (rear to left) slightly while setting the cover down to the alignment pins, dipping the left edge slightly to clear the transmission dipstick tube... once it's lined up over the pins it goes straight down. The turning helps get the FCV and associated intake extension to drop into it's place without hanging up.

Mark

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:57 pm

With the top of the engine cleaned and ready...

Install alignment pins (holes 1 & 3 center row)
Drop some assembly lube into the lifter holes
Drop the engine cover gasket over the pins
Install rocker-arm & lifters (16X)
Liberal application of assembly lube

Ready to drop the cover.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:00 pm

Woke up to snow this morning... glad to be working in the garage!

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:21 pm

Water pump, then exhaust manifold heat shield, then thermostat. Used a little Permatex grey on the thermostat gasket (3x - 10mm bolts), and also the gasket on the back of the water pump (3x - 8mm bolts).

The top outside 8mm bolt is the easiest to reach using a standard 1/4" 8mm socket and ratchet.
The top inside 8mm bolt is more challenging - mainly used an 8mm closed wrench (12pt so I could use short arcs); takes a while.
The bottom center 8mm required the 1/4" 8mm deep socket and ratchet with the handle vertical (up).

I'd be interested to hear if anyone just pulled the bolts off the water pump front and swapped the impeller front only, leaving the back with mounts and that manifold intact (lot less work, fewer skinned knuckles, less blue haze in the air... :furious:

)?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:31 pm

Engine cover just dropped over the pins...

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:46 pm

Mark, are those ARP bolts on the head?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:59 pm

Next up, page 9 - 204 of the 2005 Service Manual:

CYLINDER HEAD COVER/INTAKE MANIFOLD
TIGHTENING PROCEDURE
² Alternate between bolts #11 and #16 to seat cylinder
head cover/intake manifold on cylinder head
(Fig. 57). Torque bolts to 7 N·m.
² Torque all cylinder head cover/intake manifold
retaining bolts to 25 N·m in numerical order starting
with #1 and ending with #16 (Fig. 57).
(9) Connect the fuel return junction block to the
intake manifold/cylinder head cover (Fig. 58).
(10) Install the oil separator and outlet hose (Refer
to 9 - ENGINE/LUBRICATION/OIL - INSTALLATION).
(11) Install the fuel rail (Refer to 14 - FUEL SYSTEM/
FUEL DELIVERY/FUEL RAIL - INSTALLATION).
(12) Install fuel injectors and fuel injector supply
lines (Refer to 14 - FUEL SYSTEM/FUEL INJECTION/
FUEL INJECTOR - INSTALLATION)...

Mark

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:01 am

racertracer wrote:

Mark, are those ARP bolts on the head?

They're stock - whatever that is. I didn't mess with them.. as they seem to be one-use torque to yield type.

Mark

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:20 am

Got the torque wrench I was waiting for today, and made some progress. Got the top back on and torqued, following the FSM sequence for the engine cover... installed the rail, injectors, high-pressure lines, oil separator, fuel return line.

Yellow arrows are the bolts the FSM calls for removing to release the oil dipstick tube, EGR coolant return, and vacuum booster lines. Red circled (1) stays on the intake, red circled (2) came off by removing the four screws (red arrows). Once that is off there's a special hose clamp for the metal tube that brings exhaust up from the EGR. It unscrews like a regular hose clamp to release the FCV.

At that point you can lift off the engine cover. I'd had the EGR/FCV replaced at 30k miles, and noticed this time that they'd used high-temp silicone to seal the tube where it mates at that clamp. Judging from the crud around the EGR it appeared to be leaking a tad - but I couldn't tell if it was 'before' or 'after' the 30k replacement. I put fresh high-temp sealant on it just in case.

I saw someone else's recent post where they just undid the four bolts closest to the intake - but they're rather hard to reach - perhaps why the FSM steps call for doing what I'm depicting here.

Mark

Thought I could squeak by... (timing belt)

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