Cylinder Head Cover Removal Questions

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

I finally got back to working on my wife's liberty. Good thing she's patient. I ordered all the locking pins (1052, 1053, & 1089), as well as getting the sprocket locking tool (1085). Placed my order the end of November. The last tool didn't come in until January.

I currently have all the pins set, have torn down the front of the engine, including removing the camshaft sprockets, and the inner timing belt cover. I'm now at the point where I can start removing the wiring harness, hoses, etc from the top of the engine so that I can remove the cylinder head cover. I have a few questions:

(1) The FSM has the very helpful phrase: "28. Disconnect the main engine harness connectors at the right inner fender well and position the harness over the left side of the engine and aside." Is that right when facing the engine from the front of the vehicle? I've traced the harness both ways. On the passenger side, it snakes behind the coolant reservoir. On the driver side, it snakes behind the fuel head. It would appear the getting it disconnected and over the side of the vehicle is going to require removal of one of them. I'd prefer not to do both.

(2) When I do get to the point where I can remove the cylinder head cover, do I leave the locking pins in? I assume the answer is yes, but I don't want to screw something up.

As always, I'll take any advice I can get from anyone who's gone this deep before. I've done timing belts on previous vehicles, but this is the first time I've gone this deep into an engine.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:12 am

mtgstuber wrote:

I finally got back to working on my wife's liberty. Good thing she's patient. I ordered all the locking pins (1052, 1053, & 1089), as well as getting the sprocket locking tool (1085). Placed my order the end of November. The last tool didn't come in until January.

Which was the last tool to come? The 1085?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 am

mtgstuber wrote:

... I have a few questions:

(1) The FSM has the very helpful phrase: "28. Disconnect the main engine harness connectors at the right inner fender well and position the harness over the left side of the engine and aside." Is that right when facing the engine from the front of the vehicle? I've traced the harness both ways.

They're speaking of passenger side. Pull the coolant reservoir - it's not difficult. There's a bolt going through the center of the big connecter (box on passenger side wheel-well), and then a bunch of smaller connectors in front of it. I think there's a bolt holding the whole shebang down between the two, down into the sheet metal.

Then you disconnect everything from the engine. I pulled the whole fuel filter head/assy so I could pull the wiring away and hang it over the driver's side fender and out of the way.

mtgstuber wrote:

...(2) When I do get to the point where I can remove the cylinder head cover, do I leave the locking pins in? I assume the answer is yes, but I don't want to screw something up.

Sure. In my case I put them on after I'd taken the cover off (belt teeth broke off so no timing to preserve).

I'll pull the skid plate and put the pin into the flywheel from underneath, then put the rockers/lifters back in, put cam lube on everything, drop the gasket on, install the alignment pins for the cover, and then drop it all back on. Probably be working on that Monday or Tuesday.

Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:05 am

I also have the cover off. I am looking for the place to put the Allen key in the flywheel. It is on the passenger side correct?
I have also made these little caps that go over the egr ports on the exhaust and intake manifold and removed all the egr equipment along with the hoses. I also tapped the port that was the return from the egr cooler so that I could plug it with a bolt. Then I took a coupler and removed the y shaped water fitting. I am also planning on removing the VH. And bypassing those waterlines as well and removing the relay. Something else I am going to try is not putting the metal fan back on. If it gets hot. Well ill go-ahead and put it back on.
tell you what. I rebuilt all those lifters. Just need to get the cash to buy the rockers. Hope to have it back together in the next two weeks!
I do have some extra lifters that I will pass on. I did loose one and some parts were bad in another. Probably have 6 or 5 of them.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:52 am

mtgstuber wrote:

I finally got back to working on my wife's liberty. Good thing she's patient. I ordered all the locking pins (1052, 1053, & 1089), as well as getting the sprocket locking tool (1085). Placed my order the end of November. The last tool didn't come in until January.

I currently have all the pins set, have torn down the front of the engine, including removing the camshaft sprockets, and the inner timing belt cover. I'm now at the point where I can start removing the wiring harness, hoses, etc from the top of the engine so that I can remove the cylinder head cover. I have a few questions:

(1) The FSM has the very helpful phrase: "28. Disconnect the main engine harness connectors at the right inner fender well and position the harness over the left side of the engine and aside." Is that right when facing the engine from the front of the vehicle? I've traced the harness both ways. On the passenger side, it snakes behind the coolant reservoir. On the driver side, it snakes behind the fuel head. It would appear the getting it disconnected and over the side of the vehicle is going to require removal of one of them. I'd prefer not to do both.

(2) When I do get to the point where I can remove the cylinder head cover, do I leave the locking pins in? I assume the answer is yes, but I don't want to screw something up.

As always, I'll take any advice I can get from anyone who's gone this deep before. I've done timing belts on previous vehicles, but this is the first time I've gone this deep into an engine.

Glad to be of help. I'm soon to take off my Cylinder Head Cover as well. Thanks for the headsup on the time it takes to get the special tools.

Let's see if I can answer these in order:

1) The "right" side of the engine compartment is also the passenger side. Left and right is determined to be such when one is looking at/facing the vehicle from the back. That said, you need to remove most anything that is in the way of good access to wiring harness connections. That is one connection you don't want to guess at being right. That radiator reservoir should not be that tough to get out.

2) My opinion is also "Yes"--leave the camshaft locking pins in place. After the cover is removed you don't want things moving around on you. The pins and cams are under no stress at this point. It's worth noting that you do not want to stress these pins at any point. That is why you also have the cam gear locking tool.

Hope things continue to go well. Post pics of that intake when you get time.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

It was the 1085 that took the longest. It's also the most expensive. On after thought, it seems I would have done better (financially) with a generic pulley/sprocket holder: http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4754-Universal-Pulley-Holder/dp/B000Q8GVPY. I might still buy one. Seems like it might be useful to have for other projects. I can't count the number of unexpected times I've used my gear pullers . . .

Thanks for setting me straight on the left/right thing. Now I know what to attack next. Unfortunately, I'm headed out of town for the week, so it'll be next weekend before I get a chance to do more. That said, I'll make a point to take some pictures.

Galatron, what did you make the caps out of?

One other question: Alignment pins. This is something I haven't gotten. Is there a ready substitute, or do I need to get them on order so I'll be able to put everything back together?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:26 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

... One other question: Alignment pins. This is something I haven't gotten. Is there a ready substitute, or do I need to get them on order so I'll be able to put everything back together?

If you can find two bolts that fit the threads for the engine cover, cut off the heads - perhaps use a hacksaw to give yourself a place to turn it with a screwdriver (if you want) - finger tight is fine. They just guide the cover down and keep it aligned so that you don't knock off the rocker arms while placing the cover back on the head.

They're inexpensive: MILLER TOOL 9673 2.8 L CRD DIESEL CYLINDER COVER PINS - $10-$12 depending upon where you find them.

They are 1.9" total length, of which 1" is threaded. The unthreaded portion is 0.31" in diameter.

Mark

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Well, I got the whole monster torn down. Now I'm truly mystified. I was expecting to see a set of broken rockers on the second cylinder. Instead, the top of the engine looks just fine. (Well, other than the intake manifold looking like it's been smoking 20 packs a day for 20 or 30 years.) Note in particular the intake on cylinder two. Rather than the nice dusting of soot, it is coated in oily sludge. I pulled the glow plug too. It has the same coating, but is fully intact.

In am not a diesel mechanic, nor do I play one on TV, what does this mean? My guess is that the sludge is there because the cylinder has been getting lubricated, but isn't firing. The dealer did a compression test and found that all of the cylinders had appropriate compression. The independent guy switched injectors, and found that the problem stayed with the second cylinder. Given that you need compression, air, and fuel in this engine, I'm wondering whether I don't have an electrical problem in the harness for the second cylinder, and I wasted a bunch of time tearing this poor thing apart -- :banghead:

Alternatively, are things much worse than I feared, and I have to tear it down further? -- :cry:

Help!!!

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Oh, one other note: When I pulled the injector for cylinder two, a gush of diesel came out with it. (Which I suppose pushes me aware from "wiring" and towards "dig deeper").

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:19 pm

mtgstuber wrote:

Oh, one other note: When I pulled the injector for cylinder two, a gush of diesel came out with it. (Which I suppose pushes me aware from "wiring" and towards "dig deeper").

Sounds like you may have an injector that is sticking open. While you have the engine is apart, I highly suggest you take the injectors (all of them) to a diesel shop for bench testing. Should cost around $50 each. They will give you results regarding flow, return, etc., and tell you if they are still useable.

Tell me where you're located and I'll do some searching for you.

FWIW

Hoosier CRD

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Thanks Hooiser. I'm in Eastern Washington State, between Spokane, WA and Couer d'Alene Idaho.

So, let's assume for the moment it is an injector:
(1) Do I need to do anything about the sludge on the 2nd cylinder intake holes, or will it take care of itself once the engine is running properly.
(2) Why would the problem stick with the cylinder? (Or do you think that was a misdiagnosis? )

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:14 am

mtgstuber wrote:

Thanks Hooiser. I'm in Eastern Washington State, between Spokane, WA and Couer d'Alene Idaho.

So, let's assume for the moment it is an injector:
(1) Do I need to do anything about the sludge on the 2nd cylinder intake holes, or will it take care of itself once the engine is running properly.
(2) Why would the problem stick with the cylinder? (Or do you think that was a misdiagnosis? )

1) Yes, I would clean out the sludge as best as you can. Brake Parts cleaner, carb cleaner, etc. and those disposable blue shop towels should be all that you need. Oh, I also use medical exam gloves from Target, etc. That black ick is nasty stuff.
2) You may in fact have an issue with the wiring harness. Do you have a multimeter? Check for voltage/signals and compare between the cylinders (I'm not sure what you should see)

Try Advanced Diesel & Supply 2929 E Sprague Avenue, Spokane, WA. 509-535-0336

Hope this helps.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:28 am

In the interest of full disclosure take anything I suggest regarding injectors with caution as the electronics of injectors are largely beyond me. I do know that they get "told" to inject by an electrical signal which I assume comes from the ECU so a bad wire or ECU is possible and to the extent I can read today's wiring diagrams it appears each injector is wired separately so checking for a bad wire should not be too difficult if you can figure out the pinouts. I also know that the ECU has to be "told" the code of each injector but how that plays out with respect to diagnosing by switching injectors I don't have a clue.

What I do know is some of the timing stuff. 1) it's easy enough to tell if the engine is in time, other than the obvious horrible sounds if it's not, without tearing anything apart by simply manually rotating the engine (may need to pull the fan and fan shroud to do so) and seeing if the 3 pins (intake and exhaust cam pins and flywheel pin) can all be inserted at the same time - if yes you are ok as far as I know - if no you are not ok. 2) if the engine is run while out of time, for whatever reason, the rockers are designed to fail, BUT not to obviously break although that has been known to happen, by the roller collapsing which is not that obvious without a close look. Good illustrations of collapsed vs. not collapsed rollers are available at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64603&p=713873&hilit=lifter#p713873

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

I've got several multimeters. It seems to me I could ohm out the cables, but that's about it, as computer isn't going to want to do its thing when the engine isn't running. Any notion where in the bundle of cables the injector connectors run off to?

Regarding how it sounded -- before I tore it down. It ran rough, but there weren't any metal on metal sort of sounds. It ran smoother when I disconnected the injector on the second cylinder, but it didn't have any power. Not that it had much power when it was connected, but when it was connected I could limp it up onto my flatbed trailer, when it wasn't I couldn't.

When I was tearing it down I went through the process of putting the three locking pins in (one for each cam, one for the flywheel). What I found was that all three could go in together, though it was tricky getting them set 'just so.' I'm not sure I ever got the flywheel pin all the way set, but the crankshaft is definitely held tight, and there's no play in it. I rotated the engine by hand through at least nine revolutions when I was fussing with getting the pins set. Never did I hear anything go crunch, but I don't know that I would of moving it that slowly.

I'll take the injectors in tomorrow to get them checked. I'll pull out some of the rockers and look at them very carefully.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:54 pm

Well at my level of expertise I was thinking something simple like a chaffed or broken wire so a simply continuity test might do. As for routing check section 8W-30 of the 06 FSM if wiring diagrams make any sense to you.

The running smoother with #2 injector disconnected makes me wonder if it's injecting but too much/not enough/at the wrong time. As noted I have no clue what swapping injectors would do.

If you have the Miller pins there is zero doubt when those 2 are in and fully seated in the cams and I imagine it's the same with the Miller flywheel pin. When I helped with a TB job we have all the Miller pins but the threads were so dirty down by the flywheel that the Miller pin would not go in so we used the Allen key trick from the 05 FSM. With the right length allen key you can easily "feel" the flywheel surface around the flywheel hole and the pin then goes right in so definitely take a close look at those rockers compared to the linked pictures.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:11 pm

Looking at the intake ports makes me wonder how excessive oil gets to *one* *intake* port?

Either the oil is being sent back up the intake under pressure or it's found a way in that's unique to #2?

I'd come up with a list of how that might happen.

1. Intake valve allowing compressed air-fuel back into intake (reversion)?
2. Intake / engine cover gasket leaking and allowing engine oil into the intake runner? (inspect that gasket?)

I would expect some loss of compression with item #1.. but perhaps not enough to notice?

3. If the injector stuck open (or leaked) it could wash down the cylinder but that would score the sleeve and lose compression. Given the turbo I'm not sure how it would allow anything back up into the intake, even if the injector were leaking.. unless the FCV/EGR combo were not working properly and the pressure from the turbo was reduced enough...

4. Valve guide go out on you - allowing oil into the intake?

As for moving the injector - the manuals says they're unique enough that the computer needs to be told their calibration so it can adjust.. I suspect the downside of not doing so (for a swap/test) would be that it would run a little rough since the fuel being metered wouldn't be balanced across all the cylinders. It could confuse the tester..

Mark

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Finally got to see the pics that you posted (I'm on another computer)

Kinda gnarly on the intake side with the soot build-up but not as bad as I thought it would be. Regarding #2, it bears repeating to take it slow and analyze/eliminate one thing at a time. Test at least that one injector, all would be better in order to compare the results (they all have the same wear afterall) Look at the cam lobes--any significant wear for the one on #2 vs. the others. A compression test might also be in order. Maybe do an oil analysis to see what's there. You gotta look at everything that you can.

You do have a conundrum on your hands, but it is solveable. Keep us posted.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Check the wiring system with a noid light: http://www.noidlight.com/how-to-use-a-noid-light/

You will need the timing belt on the engine, the injectors in the bores with the high pressure lines connected and the electrical part unplugged. Crank the engine with the noid light connected to each one of the plugs and compare results. If the noid light stays on when cranking #2 it can be wiring or the ECM. Check for cuts in the side of the harness that can short out to ground, this may be your problem or one of the circuits in the ECM could be bad. If the ECM is bad, I would look into having it repaired by an independent ECM repair place, the Dealer will ask you to bend over. Chances of finding a used ECM that works out of the donor vehicle can be a crap shoot, there are some variables a tune guru could explain, but I will let them do that part.
Good Luck

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

On the oil analysis front -- while I've been doing my own vehicle maintenance for 20 years now, I've never had an oil analysis done. How much do I need to take in? These guys (http://www.oillab.com) are local to me. Any notion what I'm looking for?

So I went back through the notes I have:
The first shop I took things to, noted this in their diagnostics: "pulled intake hose at intercooler and it is apparent that compression is blowing back out the intake. Possible burnt intake value or exhaust valve not opening. bad cam or rocker??"

The dealership (don't get me started) did a compression test. It took a little wrangling, but I got a copy of the tech's notes. I'm not sure exactly how to interpret them but they read as follows:

500 lbs Gage 800 lbs gage
#1 200+ First hit 143 Compress Cranking (?)
#2 200- First hit 143 " "
#3 170- First hit 120 " "
#4 180 First hit 150 " "

I think the cylinder with the lowest compression (#3), is actually the one I would call #2. I say this based on another spot in his notes where he lists out the injector identifiers, and the one with the identifier I pulled out of cylinder 2, is marked as #3.

All of this got me thinking I should take another look at the rockers. As it turns out I do have trashed rockers. Note the pictures below. These are the rockers on the left side of the engine (facing it from the front) on cylinder 2. Forgive my ignorance, but which side corresponds to which valve?

If you look at this one, you'll see that the top of the lifter is destroyed.

The second one is more interesting to me though. You can clearly see the wear between the camshaft and the rocker (though I didn't find any meaningful wear on the camshaft).

But the brutal thing is the needle bearing:

Which gets to my new questions:

What (if any) play is expected in the bearing in the center of the rocker? Clearly being able to move it 3 mm out of round isn't right. Should these be rock solid like a ball bearing, or some play normal?
Do I replace all the rockers, or just the set on the second cylinder?
Why is this cylinder hosed, but the others seem okay? (I'll note that some of the center bearings on the other rockers have more play than I'd like -- one of the ones on #3 feels pretty far out)
Is this the core problem, or is this just a symptom? This is what I really need to know -- do I need to tear down the next layer of the engine? Is there any way to check things without tearing it down further? (Looking at the FSM it appears I'll need another $500 in specialty tools to do it )

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:52 am

At this point, I gotta admit to being out of my depth with regard to the parts and their condition. The only thing that I can suggest is to compare the other rockers in terms of "slop" at the roller area. If the ones on the problem cylinder are not like the others, then obviously, go from there.

The compression numbers look a little suspect. You typically want them to be pretty close to each other. The 120# looks pretty low compared to the others.

The intake will be on the "left"/driver's side, exhaust on the "right"/passenger side. (I think this answers a question)

Oil analysis: You should only need a small amount, i.e. 4-6 ounces. Get it from the drain plug/straight out of the oil pan. Your source may also be able to analyze the antifreeze. Go for that too if possible.

My GUESS is that the intake (exhaust too?) rocker(s) and lifter(s) are most of the culprit here. BUT, you are pretty deep into that engine. While yes, going deeper, i.e pulling the head, is a pain and more costly. BUT! Imagine how pi**ed off you'll be when you get it put back together, fire it up for the first time and it runs poorly.

Trust but verify. Pulling the head and checking the valves should tell you for sure what is going on. Unless there is something that I am missing... Hope this helps.

FWIW,
Hoosier CRD

Cylinder Head Cover Removal Questions

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