Mann ProVent 200 CCV filter

tomasnc · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:34 am

ON,

I have 13,000 on my CRD and have no problems other than the Tranny Shudder.

I need to replace the air filter and I'll inspect the cooler plumbing to see how much oil has collected inside.

So Old Navy is it my understanding that you are designing a better CCV filter than Mann? What time frame are you talking about?

And yes I agree that someone at DC is reading these post too.

I have a May '06 build date and thought I would have had a failed EGR by now but everything is fine.

With all this said... for the driver who has not not done anything with the CCV isue I think it is OK to wait. Yes or No?

Thanks guys!

Tom

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:33 am

I was running my CRD on 2 wild assumptions:
1). DC is an industry leader in diesels and wouldn't sell something with a flaw this bad.
2). The EPA would not certify an engine that passed oil (for any reason). Afterall, look how anal they are about gasoline blends.

Boy was I wrong. It takes about 30 seconds and a 5/16 nutdriver to check the hose from the turbo to the air cooler. Beginning to think DC believes most Americans are lazy and stupid and won't ever look for themselves.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:48 am

Yes we have designed a better oil air seperator then Mann or OEM and it will be connected to the OEM CCV that is nothing more the a useless pressure relief valve that is not needed but needs to be kept in system for warranty reasons. This CCV will be needed for all CRD's unless VM redesigns the intake manifold which will cost them millions in R&D and warranty repairs just as it did MB who has been building diesels longer then Cummins.

By the way the new Cummins have the same problem with oil in the intercooler.

Hey a diesel burns oil and the oil going into the intake will be burned just like the diesel fuel. As a matter of fact if you would filter the used moter oil down to 5 micron and add a counter agent to nutralize the acid you could burn your used oil without any damage to the engine believe it or not. Known a lot of companys and individuals that have done it over the years. I have a friend with 350k miles on his VW TDI with about 70% of those miles run on used motor oil and Waste Veggie Oil and has never had a injector problem or turbo problem from the fuel he uses. He does the same in his old PowerStroke Ford truck.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:54 am

RFCRD wrote:

I was running my CRD on 2 wild assumptions:
1). DC is an industry leader in diesels and wouldn't sell something with a flaw this bad.
2). The EPA would not certify an engine that passed oil (for any reason). Afterall, look how anal they are about gasoline blends.

Boy was I wrong. It takes about 30 seconds and a 5/16 nutdriver to check the hose from the turbo to the air cooler. Beginning to think DC believes most Americans are lazy and stupid and won't ever look for themselves.

Well, I can't speak for what DC believes or what their intentions were/are. But for the sake of argument, if they really did believe that most Americans are too lazy to bother with doing their own vehicle maintenance, from what I've seen over the years they'd have good reason to believe that. For a variety of reasons, not just laziness and stupidity (although that accounts for a good chunk of it IMHO), there's quite a few people out there who don't even do basic maintenance on their own, such as checking the pressure in their tires.

RedJeepCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:54 pm

Well I have been running the mann provent for 7500 miles now and I would like to see something a little better. I still get a slight bit of oil past he filter. Not that big a deal. I keep it cleaned out pretty well. I'm more excited about the Old Navy CCV being smaller and fitting without taking up so much space.

Wes

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:56 pm

Or if you really wanted to be nuclear about it, you could run the Oldnavy CCV valve AND the Provent downstream of it. If any oil would get past both devices, as the old joke goes "if it can get out of there we'll call it Houdini". :roll:

Put me down for one as well. I'll try running both, might be a good way to judge just how effective it is. Install the Oldnavy version, clean out the hoses and install a fresh Provent filter element. Then see how much oil accumulates in the Provent, if any, and how long it takes.

GreggD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:14 pm

Could someone please explain what the CCV is. I know this sounds like a stupid question to those of you "in the know", but I'm one of those who is "in the knoweth not" group.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

CCV stands for Closed Crankcase Ventilation/Valve. The need for this valve arises because whenever the pistons travel downward, they compress air inside the crankcase, and there is some pressure blow-by past the rings from the combustion of the diesel fuel. This pressure has to go somewhere, or it will pressurize the crankcase until it builds enough to push out past the weakest point to the atmosphere, which is usually an oil seal.

In older engines, there was a vent pipe that allowed these oily fumes to vent outside down onto the roadway. Now, it vents to the intake of the engine to be reburned and prevent contaminating the air we breathe. Problem is, the oil in the intake gums up and carbonizes over time, so the need to filter out the oil from the air is handled by the CCV. The CCV valve is inserted between the crankcase and the intake system and is supposed to separate all of the oil from the air and let only the air into the intake system. If they don't work efficently, they stop some oil but let some through, which is whats happening on the CRD. It also happens on the VW TDI and probably some other engines as well.

tired_old_dave · **Joined:** Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm **Posts:** 79

"Kind of, but the first run should be enough for all here. They were talking about 100 units for first run, but it could be more that wasn't cast in stone."
How many "me too" 's have you received?

GreggD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:00 pm

Thanks for your reply Ranger1.

AHAH! So this may be the culprit which caused 4 EGR valves to fail on my CRD! What's the item that Oldnavy has come up with? All this diesel stuff is new to me.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:05 pm

tired_old_dave wrote:

"Kind of, but the first run should be enough for all here. They were talking about 100 units for first run, but it could be more that wasn't cast in stone."
How many "me too" 's have you received?

I haven't been counting. Heck I am waiting for mine too.

TxAshurst · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:00 am

Well, my son has designed a nice looking filter to go under the CCV valve, with consultation with Old Navy (Thanks!). My son's company designs and builds precision parts for locomotives full-time and this is a side-line for him, but he has invested a significant amount of time on the project. I live 1,500 miles away from my grandkids (drat it), so he sent Old Navy and I a drawing from his CAD program. The current state of development is that I cut out a model from plywood to test its size and placement, and we now know for sure that it will fit. The design is good - inconspicuous, effective, elegant, inconspicuous, easy to install - and did I mention inconspicuous? It will blend right in and look like it is original equip. from DC. We want to make absolutely sure on everything, so Old Navy is measuring and double-checking the engine openings with an engineer he knows. Next step is he and I will get prototypes to run on our CRDs for a while. If there are any problems we don't want you'al to experience them. We'll do that for you.

So it seems like this is dragging along, but it's not. We ARE moving forward and will get them out as fast as we can. We're sure you'll like them when they come - hopefully in a couple of months, but not until we are certain they are right. At that time, we'll connect you with the web store where you can order them, and those of you who have already said you want one will be at the head of the line.

As for me, I have 12,000 miles on my CRD with no real issues, and I have been holding my breath, waiting for my prototype and hoping it saves me from EGR failure.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:48 am

Thanks for stepping in Earl and getting it said better then I could, at this hour of the morning. There is somehing to say about not living too close to grandkids, we had our in bed with us last night and that may be one reason why I am up and have the CCV off the engine at 4 am here.

7,300 miles and EGR failure.

marauderer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:57 am

As we patiently wait. You guys are having all the fun. ON it will only get worse as you get more senior. hehehe been there still doing it.

dog_party · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:40 am

Just in case my name hasn't officially been placed on the waiting list, I'll take at least one Ol'NAVY CRD CCV (might talk my brother into getting one too).

Thanks for all the hard work guys! And thanks for keeping us up to date on the development of the piece.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:10 am

marauderer wrote:

As we patiently wait. You guys are having all the fun. ON it will only get worse as you get more senior. hehehe been there still doing it.

I will be 61 this summer and have plans on collecting a lot of years of retirement checks from Uncle Sam, been doing that now for 12 + years. I talk to an old retired SCPO here in town every now and then, he retired in '72 with 30 years service. The guy did WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam tours, then taught HS for about 25 years before retiring there, and he & wife have been doing a lot of traveling in a motor home for last 10 years since retiring from teaching.

Wife and I are going to look at the Sprinter diesel conversion vans that are class B motor homes tomorrow in St Louis and plan on the way back to stop and look at the Class A 40 footers. No sure we want to do the big rigs though, you just can't stop and shop or take the side trips like a 21' van can.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:34 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Wife and I are going to look at the Sprinter diesel conversion vans that are class B motor homes tomorrow in St Louis and plan on the way back to stop and look at the Class A 40 footers. No sure we want to do the big rigs though, you just can't stop and shop or take the side trips like a 21' van can.

Well, you could always tow the CRD w/ the 40 footer and use that for shopping and side trips

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:31 pm

grywlfbg wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Wife and I are going to look at the Sprinter diesel conversion vans that are class B motor homes tomorrow in St Louis and plan on the way back to stop and look at the Class A 40 footers. No sure we want to do the big rigs though, you just can't stop and shop or take the side trips like a 21' van can.

Well, you could always tow the CRD w/ the 40 footer and use that for shopping and side trips

We have talked about that, but you have to plan those. You don't park a motor home just anywhere, if nothing else for security reasons. Then you have to unhook and hook back up when you are done with the tow vehicle. I think you would go and see more stuff with a small RV more then you would if you are driving something the size of a Greyhound bus.

marauderer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:21 pm

grywlfbg wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Wife and I are going to look at the Sprinter diesel conversion vans that are class B motor homes tomorrow in St Louis and plan on the way back to stop and look at the Class A 40 footers. No sure we want to do the big rigs though, you just can't stop and shop or take the side trips like a 21' van can.

Well, you could always tow the CRD w/ the 40 footer and use that for shopping and side trips

Ditto!!

tired_old_dave · **Joined:** Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm **Posts:** 79

Thank you for the information. I thought is was going to be downwind of the outlet on the factory ccv. It sounds like what we all asked for. Send the oil right back down and the vapors to the turbo. I hope now that you have disclosed the engineering, I'm sure you have a patent. Wouldn't want some factory engineer saying eureka.

oldnavy, not an rv'er yet. Sat in a Sprinter Conversion here in dfw. Also sat in - please forgive me for this - but an Endura with the duramax/allison with a 34 foot turning radius. It seem I'm now looking at GulfStreams. I noticed a Gulfstream Vista Cruiser Mini on a web site. And FRED (Freightliner/Cummins) of course for Gulf Stream is the Crescendo-also good turning radius. All front diesels - none are pushers. We thought the price last year for the Sprinter conversion was high. One salesman at a family run business still thought the pusher gave the most room for maintenance. Please have some fun and let me know if we need to look elsewhere.

Mann ProVent 200 CCV filter

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