New Old Navy CCV filter coming for CRD

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:23 am

Put me on the list, too.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:32 am

0311_DoC wrote:

I to am interested, Although I will admit I dont understand fully what it does for the engine, except help it run better.

That's OK. Nobody here will really know if it's doing anything at all for the engine until somebody without one pulls their engine apart at 75,000 miles and takes a peek inside. Until then you're spending your money on a "what if".

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:14 am

LibertyCRD wrote:

0311_DoC wrote:

I to am interested, Although I will admit I dont understand fully what it does for the engine, except help it run better.

That's OK. Nobody here will really know if it's doing anything at all for the engine until somebody without one pulls their engine apart at 75,000 miles and takes a peek inside. Until then you're spending your money on a "what if".

That's true, but I'd rather pay for the ounce of prevention now, even if it turns out to be unnecessary, that pay for the pound of cure later on.

valkraider · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:09 pm

What if the CRD engine design *needs* that oil in the intake?

Hey, "what if" ???

hehe....

marauderer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:50 pm

valkraider wrote:

What if the CRD engine design *needs* that oil in the intake?

Hey, "what if" ???

hehe....

It doesn't need that oil in the intake. :shock:

The oil only reduces the coeffecient to transfer heat across the intercooler which is a bad thing.

The turbo unit is self contained and if it is leaking it needs new seals.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

That's OK. Nobody here will really know if it's doing anything at all for the engine until somebody without one pulls their engine apart at 75,000 miles and takes a peek inside. Until then you're spending your money on a "what if".

That's speculation on your part. Look at one of the many used oil analysis on the net and see what some of the oil additives are - zinc, calcium and plasticisers which help keep the viscosity at the right range, when burned in the combustion chamber, form deposits that help coke on injectors, and will add to carbon on ring lands on the pistons. Even a gasolene engine with 50K on it will have carbon on the piston ring lands when you pull one apart - and that's burning cleaner fuel than diesel. Then there is the issue of coating your intercooler, hoses and egr valve. Malfunctioning egr valves will cause other problems for your engine, such as too much exhaust gas going into the chambers if it sticks in the open position, causing incomplete burn, and helping to further gum up the rings and injector tips as ingredients never intended to be used for fuel is carbonized.

marauderer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:47 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

That's OK. Nobody here will really know if it's doing anything at all for the engine until somebody without one pulls their engine apart at 75,000 miles and takes a peek inside. Until then you're spending your money on a "what if".

That's speculation on your part. Look at one of the many used oil analysis on the net and see what some of the oil additives are - zinc, calcium and plasticisers which help keep the viscosity at the right range, when burned in the combustion chamber, form deposits that help coke on injectors, and will add to carbon on ring lands on the pistons. Even a gasolene engine with 50K on it will have carbon on the piston ring lands when you pull one apart - and that's burning cleaner fuel than diesel. Then there is the issue of coating your intercooler, hoses and egr valve. Malfunctioning egr valves will cause other problems for your engine, such as too much exhaust gas going into the chambers if it sticks in the open position, causing incomplete burn, and helping to further gum up the rings and injector tips as ingredients never intended to be used for fuel is carbonized.

That's why you run a good synthetic like Amsoil and you won't get the hi temp crytalization aka coking that you get with dino based oils. Turbos are notorious for coking and eventially starving out the oil supply and burning up. Then synthetic oil was discovered and it was found not only not to coke but to actually desolve the coking that was in the lines. This is a good thing. I had another car that when I sold it at 312K mi the original engine and the original turbo where both still working.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Synthetics have some of those same additives. Amsoil in particular, before obtaining an SAE rating on one line of their oil, had the highest levels of zinc additive of any of the synthetics - to the point where the SAE rating could not be obtained because the high levels of zinc was causing catalyst damaging issues downstream in gasolene vehicles. This oil was designed for large diesel vehicles, but some users were putting it into gasolene vehicles, lured by the 25K oci rating. The zinc additive was one of the additives that provided the excellent anti-wear properties of their 2000 (or was it 3000) series of oil. The SAE rated Amsoil oil for gasolene vehicles came out with a 7500 mile change interval when it first arrived, and had lower levels of zinc that SAE specs required.

marauderer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:34 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Synthetics have some of those same additives. Amsoil in particular, before obtaining an SAE rating on one line of their oil, had the highest levels of zinc additive of any of the synthetics - to the point where the SAE rating could not be obtained because the high levels of zinc was causing catalyst damaging issues downstream in gasolene vehicles. This oil was designed for large diesel vehicles, but some users were putting it into gasolene vehicles, lured by the 25K oci rating. The zinc additive was one of the additives that provided the excellent anti-wear properties of their 2000 (or was it 3000) series of oil. The SAE rated Amsoil oil for gasolene vehicles came out with a 7500 mile change interval when it first arrived, and had lower levels of zinc that SAE specs required.

You are correct. I didn't think of the folks that don't use the product appropriately as recommended. Amsoil even provides a technical assist line that you can speak with a Chemical Engineer that has his stuff in the same basket. This is hard to get in 2006.

Fossil Fool · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:28 am

Navy,
Are you getting any closer. Do you think it will help with mileage. As usual I bought the only CRD with mileage issues. 15-17 city.
I hear these outrageous mpg's and I wanna scream. I am finally getting a little revenge as gas is going higher then diesel here.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:36 am

Fossil Fool wrote:

Navy,
Are you getting any closer. Do you think it will help with mileage. As usual I bought the only CRD with mileage issues. 15-17 city.
I hear these outrageous mpg's and I wanna scream. I am finally getting a little revenge as gas is going higher then diesel here.

Well it is 4:15 am and I am up and tinkering on the CRD, but as far as closer, who knows. I would assume that the guys in CA (I'm in MO) are getting ready to mfg the first 3 test models, here in the next few days. I am suppose to take some more measurements for them and get back to them with that info as soon as possible, so the test models can be built.

As far as MPG's, the CCV should not have any effect on that, however if yours has failed or never worked proper that may effect the MPG's. There are a couple of things that could effect the MPG's that way other then a drastic change of tire sizes, or very bad driving habits. You could have improper timing related to the improper install of the Timing Belt at the factory, or the timing on the Injection Pump could be way out of adjustment. I have seen this same thing in VW diesel where both TB & IP were off and the car ran good, but not like it should and on effect of this was always poor fuel mileage. I would suggest you talk to the shops diesel tech (lots experience & training in diesels is required) and SM about checking those two things as they are very key to the proper operation of the engine. There was lots of problems with getting this done in VW's as there were very few proper trained tech's that knew how to use the computer to do the diagnostic and adjustments, and this amoung other thing is what started al the GTG's that are so common with VW owners.

I am going to one in MI this MD weekend and they will be doing several TB changes and electronic's checks to brake work to tranny work and a lot of eating & BSing. I will be the Jeep diesel there I guess unless one ot two of the VW owners show in thier CRD instead of their VW diesel cars.

marauderer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:04 am

When you go to the workshop are you going to check your timing either the pump or the cam? I haven't got that far into it yet but on my other hot rod diesel I was able to change the offset of the pump which is like advancing the distributer timing on a gas motor.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:53 am

marauderer wrote:

When you go to the workshop are you going to check your timing either the pump or the cam? I haven't got that far into it yet but on my other hot rod diesel I was able to change the offset of the pump which is like advancing the distributer timing on a gas motor.

It's amazing what a few degree's out of time on IP can have on a diesel, same is true with timing belt. Just one cog off and it's liike a different car.

Forgot to mention that the diesel tech told me the other day, the valve train is a break away design to prevent head and block damage if TB breaks. He statement was that he would have to see it to believe it.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:21 am

From what I read the valve stems are "pre-stressed" and are designed to shear off in case of interference. I too, would have to see it to believe it. Wouldn't the valve fall into the hole? The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make any sense. I wish I could remember where I read that to verify it is correct.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:32 am

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

That's OK. Nobody here will really know if it's doing anything at all for the engine until somebody without one pulls their engine apart at 75,000 miles and takes a peek inside. Until then you're spending your money on a "what if".

That's speculation on your part. Look at one of the many used oil analysis on the net and see what some of the oil additives are - zinc, calcium and plasticisers which help keep the viscosity at the right range, when burned in the combustion chamber, form deposits that help coke on injectors, and will add to carbon on ring lands on the pistons. Even a gasolene engine with 50K on it will have carbon on the piston ring lands when you pull one apart - and that's burning cleaner fuel than diesel. Then there is the issue of coating your intercooler, hoses and egr valve. Malfunctioning egr valves will cause other problems for your engine, such as too much exhaust gas going into the chambers if it sticks in the open position, causing incomplete burn, and helping to further gum up the rings and injector tips as ingredients never intended to be used for fuel is carbonized.

All I'm saying is, THIS is all speculation until somebody with high mileage tears down the engine to see inside. These CRDs haven't even been around long enough to know whether they are going to have problems in the U.S. or not. We can speculate about all the processes we believe to be going on inside the engine all we want to. Until somebody has an engine failure at high mileage due to clogging of the system we will not know if there is really an issue or not. But I guess it's sort of like insurance...we carry it just in case our house does catch fire. You never know.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:03 pm

I agree, time will tell, but I can also tell you that any diesel I can think of with closed CCV and EGR has trouble with fouled intake system to some degree. It is a way of life for people with VW TDI engines. Even my Nissan diesels which are naturally aspirated have trouble with soot and oil combining in the intake and making a mess. They were made in 83 and have closed CCV and EGR. I guess Nissan was a little ahead of the emissions curve in those days!

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:36 am

The big difference today with a CCV system is the draft of the turbo is much stronger than the old naturally asperated diesels of the 80's. I had an '81 Bonniville with the Olds 5.7 that went 250K before I got rid of it. That CCV made a big mess inside the air intake. It became an open vent with a couple of pipe plugs and some heater hose. Was a great frame oiler. It also ran noticably smoother and with less clatter with the open CV.

I can tell you from my recent experience at work (run numerous EGR diesels), we need to become concerned about the amount of soot we are making and then recirculating. It's the equivilant of sucking unfiltered sand back through your motor. Those are 2-3 yr. old Series 50's with open CV's and are coming apart for liner kits and heads (along with the never ending EGR & turbo failures). Imagine what is going on inside our soot pumps. I have seen a noticable drop in the volume of soot in my oil after installing a provent and switching to B20.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:50 pm

I am waiting to see the Old Navy rig. In the meantime if I can get my wife out of the Libby, I am going to go open vent. Even if I wind up with the Old Navy unit, I might leave it open vent (less mess). I believe in leaving emmision controls alone unless they seriously threaten the longevity of the equipment. Some people forget that shortening the life of an engine has environmental consequences also because it takes energy to make things. If the technology for closed crankcase venting isn't mature yet or if the powers that be can't require manufacturers to meet emmisions standards without sacrificing reliability, I don't really know what the individual can do except protect their investment.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:47 pm

If it weren't for adding the Provent, I would have gone open vent. It is good to be eco-friendly if at all possible. Just make sure you save the factory hose so you can reverse the open vent should you need warranty work. You should find a conveniently placed large hole in the frame rail just below the power steering resivior that would make a good terminal location for the hose. There is a tendency to get a oily fogg under the hood if you don't bury the hose end. It's a shame you have to look at jimmy-rigging a $25K vehicle.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:53 pm

RFCRD wrote:

If it weren't for adding the Provent, I would have gone open vent. It is good to be eco-friendly if at all possible. Just make sure you save the factory hose so you can reverse the open vent should you need warranty work. You should find a conveniently placed large hole in the frame rail just below the power steering resivior that would make a good terminal location for the hose. There is a tendency to get a oily fogg under the hood if you don't bury the hose end. It's a shame you have to look at jimmy-rigging a $25K vehicle.

Ain't that the truth, but I guess it could be something worse.

New Old Navy CCV filter coming for CRD

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