Liberty CRD vs XJ 4.0 daily driver and beach vehicle

Cleaner13 · **Joined:** Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:22 pm **Posts:** 6

Since I couldnt do a direct search of the 4.0 vs the VM 2.8 I had to make this post. I apologize if this has come up before and will be happy to be directed to other discussions but 4.0 and 2.8 do not work in the search. That being said what Im looking for is a comparison with the 4.0 (XJ) vs the 2.8. Ive driven both and the 2.8 has much more torque and obviously out does it in mileage. I have a few related questions, but for people that have owned both, which makes for a better daily driver? I need something for back and forth to work and in the summer my fiancee and I with our 2 dogs drive directly on to the beach we belong to. The mpg of the liberty makes sense, but how reliable is it compared to the 4.0? However I do know the maintenance and upkeep (timing belt etc) of the diesel is more. Ive also read many stories of people with bad turbos and a few of them throwing rods. I know the 4.0 isnt completely without issues (the cracking heads 00-01) which is why I would get a 99. In my opinion both have good transmissions, the aw4 is stout and the 545 I have in my wj with over 250K miles on it. I believe both have the same transfercases as well. So it really comes down to the engine. Now I realize the XJ will probably be 1/3 the price as well (so thats a factor) its also 6 years older.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:04 pm

The Liberty CRD makes the better daily driver overall.

I have owned and currently own several XJs and KJs and have hundreds of thousands of combined miles on either XJ or KJ.

The CRD engine is great, I'm just not a fan of the KJ chassis. I much prefer the XJ chassis over the KJ.

The CRD will get much better mileage than the XJ overall. But.....the XJ is just such a cheap vehicle to own if you need cheap reliable transportation its going to be a better vehicle for that than the CRD. My 2000 XJ has needed less work done on it than my 2005 KJ. Ya it may be 5 years older but its also required 2 fewer tranmissions, 2 fewer alternators, etc etc

The 0331 head issue in the 2000+ 4L's is not a big deal and IMO is not worth ignoring a 2000 or 2001 XJ for. Personally there are more things about the 2000 XJ I like over the 99 that make me prefer the 2000s personally. IF you bought a 2000 and IF the head had issues someday a new improved cast head is less than $500 and can be installed in a saturday afternoon. By comparison, a timing belt job costs about as much and takes a little MORE time to do on a CRD.

Ya, its quicker to replace a head on a 4L than do a timing belt on a CRD.

For just a beach vehicle either will be about the same in regards to 4x4. If your planning to lift and hardcore offroad the XJ is a better choice.

Overall the KJ CRD makes a great daily driver(comfortable, quiet, safe, smooth, creature comforts, AC that would make an iceberg shiver), but at the end of the year I think an XJ will cost you less to own and operate unless you are driving lots of miles(as in about 15-20k a year).

DirtyKK · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:07 pm

its a no brainer for me. XJ all day, maybe im bias. all the money you save on fuel will go towards modifying/maintaining the crd. the XJ is cheap. if something breaks you can go to napa and get a replacement part for $30. good luck finding parts for the crd. With a good XJ you can see pretty decent gas mileage also. My 93 has 175k miles on it. stock 3.55 gears, 33x12.5 on 15x10 rims (heavy!), snorkel, neon injectors, catback exhaust and I get 16.5 mpgs.

Budke · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:20 pm

XJ, no doubt. The reliability of the 4.0 is nearly unmatched by any gasoline engine. Cheap parts, even cheaper good used parts. I bought a new perfectly fine working starter for my YJ for $10, can't beat that! AC in an XJ can freeze your manhood off as well, I've experienced it. Plus, I think it will be better on the beach cause you don't have an anchor in the front pushing the front tires into the sand. Nearly everything that will break on an XJ will me cheap to fix compared to a CRD. Just a simple problem can end up costing big bucks in a CRD.
Plus, a mildly lifted and modified XJ can look sexy as hell, not so much with the KJ. Lol

Sent using the force

Cleaner13 · **Joined:** Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:22 pm **Posts:** 6

thank you everyone for your honest responses, I kind of had a feeling it would go in this direction regardless. My initial instinct was the XJ so I guess I should just stick with that. Thank you again

fool4wheelin · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Wait a second now, I've been driving a '98 XJ for 8 years as a DD and I just bought an '05 CRD to replace it. I agree with a lot of the things everyone else mentioned, but the reasons I'm trying the KJ are as follows.

- Front IFS and R&P Steering
- Rear Coil-Link Suspension
- Modern Engine with 4-Valves per Cylinder and Roller Cams
- ABS, LATCH, and Front & Side Airbags

Sir Sam wrote:

Personally there are more things about the 2000 XJ I like over the 99 that make me prefer the 2000s personally.

You sparked my curiosity here, what sort of things are you referring to? I know they went to distributorless ignition at some point, switched to low-pinion D30, redesigned the intake manifold to make up for emissions losses, anything else thats notable? Did they re-design the HVAC box, because I'm not a fan of the '97-'98 box that forces the air to go around a bunch of baflles to get through the heater core.

Sir Sam wrote:

I'm just not a fan of the KJ chassis. I much prefer the XJ chassis over the KJ.

Are you referring to the unibody frame or the interior? What sort of things do you like better with the XJ chassis? Just curious.

Other than a cracked exhaust manifold, 3 radiators, and an engine mount, my XJ has been pretty bulletproof. But now with the KJ, I'm going to dedicate my XJ for off-pavement use, which is really where the XJ shines!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:04 pm

fool4wheelin wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

Personally there are more things about the 2000 XJ I like over the 99 that make me prefer the 2000s personally.

You sparked my curiosity here, what sort of things are you referring to? I know they went to distributorless ignition at some point, switched to low-pinion D30, redesigned the intake manifold to make up for emissions losses, anything else thats notable? Did they re-design the HVAC box, because I'm not a fan of the '97-'98 box that forces the air to go around a bunch of baflles to get through the heater core.

I like the coil rail ignition, Hvac box is the same 98+ up, and functionally identical on the 97s, minor aesthetics things like the different decals, there were a few other minor wiring and other not visible changes(like how the AC system cycles) that make the 00+ more desireable to me. The 99's have the HPD30 and the 00+ the LP, but that doesn't matter to me since I will never be lifting my jeep to the point where that will matter. The 01's have extra cats but they can be "deleted" pretty easily. The 99+ has the better intake which allows it to breath a little better and produce a little bit better mid range torque.

fool4wheelin wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

I'm just not a fan of the KJ chassis. I much prefer the XJ chassis over the KJ.

Are you referring to the unibody frame or the interior? What sort of things do you like better with the XJ chassis? Just curious.

Other than a cracked exhaust manifold, 3 radiators, and an engine mount, my XJ has been pretty bulletproof. But now with the KJ, I'm going to dedicate it for off-pavement use, which is really where the XJ shines!

The Unibody on the KJ is certainly stiffer. Overall what I meant by "chassis" was the vehicle sans powertrain. I like the Xj interior and exterior better. I hate the swing style tailgate and the rear mounted spare, the rear mounted spare sticks back so far that have a flip glass is basically useless. I like the tailgate on the XJ, I can open it and have someplace to stand out of the rain when I change clothes to hike, not so with the KJ.

I don't like all the weird rounded curves found inside the KJ.....everything is perfectly functional, but not aesthetically pleasing to me.

Its quieter in the KJ for sure, and there are more creature comforts, so it makes a nice driver, but the XJ just feels better to me. I appreach the aesthetics and usablitty of the XJ more than the KJ......I mean, the KJ rear seats don't even fold flat, I sleep in the back of my Jeep dozens of times a year and everytime I have to sleep in the back of the KJ I curse the person who didn't make seats that actually fold flat, and the person who put those dammed child seat anchors on the back of the seat. At the very least they could have made them sit flush with the back of the seat, instead of having them stick up and JAB me in the back all night long.

God I hate sleeping in the back of the KJ.....the Xj is like a palace by comparison.

Oh and the KJ has no "oh-my-god" handle, its its got that grab handle.....which does no good unless you are way lifted like a big truck, and that stupid pillar cover is so large that it creates a little blind spot. Remove that damm cover and your visibility actually improves.

I like the aesthetics of the KK much better. Much boxxyer, I like.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:46 pm

"The CRD engine is great, I'm just not a fan of the KJ chassis. I much prefer the XJ chassis over the KJ."
X2 on every thing Sam says

I also have a 2000 XJ and prefer it to the 99 XJ I had prior to the CRD. I bought the current XJ after buying the CRD and it's in perfect condition with 150,000 miles and I love it. Yes it has a mighty thirst for gas and runs better on mid grade or premium but the wife does not put on many miles so gas cost is a non issue. Parts are available at your corner drug store cheap for XJ's
You mention dogs, the rear hatch is lower then the KJ by a long shot easier for dogs to jump in:SOMBRERO:

I bought the CRD for one reason. I have diesel in my veins and don't care for the body style at all. On the KJ I need a ladder to wash the roof but need to jack it up to change the oil. Neither are so on the XJ. The cloth seats in my 2006 Limited with only 51k look like crap compared to the ones in the 2000 XJ Classic that look new

KJ=too many bean counter decisions.
XJ=Designed 20 years ago in another mindset and influenced by European design when Renault controlled AMC.

Plus my 2000 XJ was near the twentieth year of productions and is pretty well debugged :JEEPIN:

On the plus side Chrysler put together a pretty good package on our CRD's for a reasonable price :2cents:

fool4wheelin · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:48 pm

The KJ looks like they tried to cross the XJ and TJ, along with rounding off the iconic box shape. You have the grill & spare tire off the Wranger, and the shape & wheelbase of the Cherokee. My '84 CJ7 has a swing-out spare tire carrier, and I can see how they tried to integrate that with the tailgate. I don't care much for the front end styling on the KK, the boxier look is fine, but the grill is too big and I don't like the trapezoidal headlights. IMHO, the KK looks too much like the Dodge Nitro and not enough like the Cherokee.

If you don't have a preference between the looks on the XJ and KJ, I think the KJ would be a better daily driver, especially if you're going to be hauling kids or other passengers. Its built heavier than the XJ, and now after owning a Patriot MK (da'wife's Jeep) to put things in perspective, the KJ doesn't sacrfice much, if any, of the XJ's capability.

fool4wheelin · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:51 pm

You could always buy one of these:

http://www.wjjeeps.com/photoalb/week/jeep_2500_02.jpg

Chamba · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:07 pm

The CRD is a fantastic engine - I love it! After living in Australia for 7 years, I have become 'addicted' to diesel. I am not a huge fan of the look of the KJ, but Jeep does not put the CRD into the Wrangler in the US. I would buy any 4WD car with this engine in it. The runner up for me is the VW Jetta TDI ( I am not a fan of European cars) but my wife is Australian and feels much safer driving in the snow with 4wd (Australians are by nature mostly very nervous and safety-oriented people).

I owned a 98 Wrangler 4.0 which we bought brand new. I MUCH prefer the CRD to that engine. While the CRD requires some peculiar maintenance items and can only be bought in automatic in the US, it is very reliable overall (VM makes almost the same motor for London Taxis which go for half a million miles without major issues) and get fantastic fuel economy. In our Wrangler I averaged 12 MPG on the freeway at 80 MPH, in the CRD I average nearly 30 MPG at 80 MPH. At $4 per gallon, you do the numbers on whether you drive enough to justify the cost of a timing belt every 100,000 miles.

Once you do a few simple items listed in the Noob guide, the CRD is pure awesome to drive and very reliable. Nothing you will do to the 4.0 will make it get much better than 16 MPG and it has never been a powerhouse of a motor.

Chamba

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:12 pm

fool4wheelin wrote:

You could always buy one of these:

http://www.wjjeeps.com/photoalb/week/jeep_2500_02.jpg

Check this out:
http://colorado4wheel.com/images/BAW_S12/

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/content/Jeep2500.html

Chamba · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:16 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

fool4wheelin wrote:

You could always buy one of these:

http://www.wjjeeps.com/photoalb/week/jeep_2500_02.jpg

Check this out:
http://colorado4wheel.com/images/BAW_S12/

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/content/Jeep2500.html

In Australia 'Great Wall Motors' sells a turbo diesel 4 door pickup which is just the last version of the Chevy Colorado with a goofy-looking front end. I think this is going to be their new forte: building 'obsolete' models better than we did.

http://www.greatwallmotors.com.au/defau ... e&ID=21799

While it may seem to be expensive to us Americans, remember that Australians pay about 2 - 3 times what we do for everything. A Toyota Hilux (Tacoma) sells for nealy $60,000 here.

fool4wheelin · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:38 am

Sir Sam wrote:

Check this out:
http://colorado4wheel.com/images/BAW_S12/

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/content/Jeep2500.html

Is it just me or does that look like they're using the old door tooling from the Pre 97 XJ's with the interior of the Post 97 XJ's. Looks just like my old '86 XJ! I definetally don't miss that old fiberglass door, one thing Jeep learned from Dodge (and the minivan engineers) was how to make a good tailgate!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:52 am

fool4wheelin wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

Check this out:
http://colorado4wheel.com/images/BAW_S12/

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/content/Jeep2500.html

Is it just me or does that look like they're using the old door tooling from the Pre 97 XJ's with the interior of the Post 97 XJ's. Looks just like my old '86 XJ! I definetally don't miss that old fiberglass door, one thing Jeep learned from Dodge (and the minivan engineers) was how to make a good tailgate!

Thats correct, the body tooling is all the original stuff they got back in 84. They have never updated those dies. They have been stamping out the same body for 28 years now. Sure they modified bolt on crap but the same basic body is being used.

Its real interesting to look at the finer details of those Jeeps, when you look at the door panels you can see they must have used the 97+ door panels as a base, but then modified them. The door lock and handle is in the 96- spot.....I'm guessing the guts of that door are like the 96- doors and not the 97+, the latches use the old style strikers too, so its the guts of the older doors.

My MJ has the 2500 front end on it, and the S12 front end is growing on me too, as is the dash.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:19 am

I've owned both and I would have to say that if you want a DD that is Cheap to own, than the xj is the way to go.

I used to drive an XJ's for 10 years prior to my 4.0L TJ and I thought that i would never get rid of it but I love the TJ now, it's great for sand dunes, snow, the woods and just about everything else with the top down.

The CRD is pretty sweet with lots of Balls, class, better gas mileage and I make my own fuel so it pays for itself.

The CRD KJ chassis will save your azz in a severe frontal impact accident, ask me how I know, it was totaled on 3/19/2012, not my fault.

The xj instead got beat up in a minor hit.

Not that I look to get into accidents but 34 years of driving allows one to test drive a few vehicles.

I like having the versatility and I would hate to get rid of either.

ando · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:30 am

If petrol wasnt averaging over £6 a gallon here ($9-10!!!) :evil:

... I would have another XJ already sat on the drive, I loved my old one

Chamba · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:31 am

ando wrote:

If petrol wasnt averaging over £6 a gallon here ($9-10!!!) :evil:

... I would have another XJ already sat on the drive, I loved my old one

And that's why diesel is popular here in Australia and in the UK/Europe: high petrol prices. Petrol is so cheap in the US that diesel may never catch on for small vehicles.

Diesel is not as popular here as it is in Europe because you can convert a petrol rig to run on gas. Gas is about $3 per gallon here where petrol and diesel are about $6-$7 per gallon. Even thought one uses about 30% more gas than petrol (due to the lower BTUs of gas) it is still more cost-effective per mile to run a car on gas.

Having said that, the gas injection on a diesel is a fantastic option but it does not 'convert' the vehicle to gas but rather substitutes a bit of the diesel with the gas.

I loved my 4.0 but it was a thirsty bugger. I could stir up dust in the fuel gauge as the needle whooshed toward E with a headwind. With my CRD I sometimes wonder whether the needle is stuck.

Budke · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:24 am

racertracer wrote:

I've owned both and I would have to say that if you want a DD that is Cheap to own, than the xj is the way to go.

I used to drive an XJ's for 10 years prior to my 4.0L TJ and I thought that i would never get rid of it but I love the TJ now, it's great for sand dunes, snow, the woods and just about everything else with the top down.

The CRD is pretty sweet with lots of Balls, class, better gas mileage and I make my own fuel so it pays for itself.

The CRD KJ chassis will save your azz in a severe frontal impact accident, ask me how I know, it was totaled on 3/19/2012, not my fault.

The xj instead got beat up in a minor hit.

Not that I look to get into accidents but 34 years of driving allows one to test drive a few vehicles.

I like having the versatility and I would hate to get rid of either.

Simple fix for that.
Steel bumpers and add a few frame stiffeners to the front and rear of the unibody

Sent using the force

Liberty CRD vs XJ 4.0 daily driver and beach vehicle

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