OIL TYPES, 2006 Export engine VS domestic

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:56 pm

On page 4-2 of the official service manual (I found it somewhere on this forum), different oils, standard mineral vs. synthetic are recommended depending on where the CRD is shipped, what gives? Is this an EPA thing?

Glend · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:40 am

I think it was mostly to do with climate and oil type availability when the KJ was made. Certainly we have no need for an extremely (0W) low viscosity oil here in Australia and diesel formulated oils usually start at 10W; but we do need high heat tolerant oils. Other parts of the world market was just not able to source Mobil 1 and other more exotic synthethics back in 2006 unless by special order.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:28 am

Emission regulations, fleet mpg regulations, and ambient temp ranges are different world wide but the engine itself remains the same. I suspect the different oil recommendations relate to those factors and perhaps others.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

There were two reasons Chrysler speced 0W-40 oil for North America.

1. Cold start at -20 F in Canada, thicker oil prevented engine from cranking fast enough for repeatable starts.
2. 0W oil bumped up the EPA fuel economy sticker by about 1 mpg based on EPA test standards (which do not correlate well with real world driving anyway)

Both decisions leave much to be desired.

Outside NA, oil types for this engine vary from 5W-40, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 15W-40 based on average ambient temps. If it is not winter time we recommend a 10W-30, 10W-40 or 15W-40 in North America. The thinner oils do not do any favors to your valvetrain components.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

I agree in most instances but I like using the Shell Rotella T6, 5W40 oil. It is 40 weight shortly after starting, you get good flow & lubrication at startup and has all the additives for high performance and heavy duty diesel engines. Very few 15W40's are synthetic and don't form a lot of ash. I use to use the Dino Rotella T 15W40 in many older engines but worry about the ash after 5000 miles in this engine. Name a few good high viscosity synthetic diesel oils. Amsoil has a few but they are very expensive. I can't think of any off hand.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:29 pm

Shell Rotella T6 5-40W, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5-40W, Amsoil recommended oil for our CRD "struck" big time! Too tin! Just good for High Rev up Euro car engine, the Amsoil synthetic Premium with Zinc 10-40W do a better job but I can see it on American site anymore, I bet the EPA is not strange to this ......

Zinc = Good longivity

Still on sale in WALALA :mrgreen:

http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/SAE-10W40-Synthetic-High-Performance-Motor-Oil.php

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:25 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

There were two reasons Chrysler speced 0W-40 oil for North America.

1. Cold start at -20 F in Canada, thicker oil prevented engine from cranking fast enough for repeatable starts.
2. 0W oil bumped up the EPA fuel economy sticker by about 1 mpg based on EPA test standards (which do not correlate well with real world driving anyway)

Both decisions leave much to be desired.

Outside NA, oil types for this engine vary from 5W-40, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 15W-40 based on average ambient temps. If it is not winter time we recommend a 10W-30, 10W-40 or 15W-40 in North America. The thinner oils do not do any favors to your valvetrain components.

Do you see a problem with using Delo 400 15W-40 ?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Delo 400 15W-40 seems like a good quality oil based on its spec sheet, however it is designed for diesel engines equipped with a particulate filter and seems to be a low ash oil. VM recommends a CG-4 oil or better for this engine. Some folks think the low ash formulations have less desireable wear characteristics. You might be able to find some less expensive 15W-40 oil with a CH or CI rating.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:57 pm

So it seems like to get the CG-4 rating, it'll have to synthetic?

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:08 am

Do you live in LV, Reno, or Elko? Area 1 would work well with 15/40. It might be a bit thick for 2 or 3 during winter. I live on north end of the Wasatch Front Utah. 15/40 is hard to crank here in winter. I would definitely use the block heater with 15/40 which can be problematic when parked at a remote location.

One size may not fit all is what I got from the above discussion.

The knock on early multi-viscosity oils was that they 'sheared.' The long chain molecules were thought to break apart with enough heat. Supposedly, the greater the spread between low and high viscosity made the oil more vulnerable.

My current 'belief' is that tendency was largely overcome when synthetics were introduced. At 41 degrees north latitude I use 5/40 full syn (Rotella T6)

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:30 am

TJ2 wrote:

Do you live in LV, Reno, or Elko? Area 1 would work well with 15/40. It might be a bit thick for 2 or 3 during winter. I live on north end of the Wasatch Front Utah. 15/40 is hard to crank here in winter. I would definitely use the block heater with 15/40 which can be problematic when parked at a remote location.

One size may not fit all is what I got from the above discussion.

The knock on early multi-viscosity oils was that they 'sheared.' The long chain molecules were thought to break apart with enough heat. Supposedly, the greater the spread between low and high viscosity made the oil more vulnerable.

My current 'belief' is that tendency was largely overcome when synthetics were introduced. At 41 degrees north latitude I use 5/40 full syn (Rotella T6)

Live a little north of the Reno latitude. I also have a LR D90 with a 300tdi in it. I've always used the Delo 400LE in it. I used the Rotella in it for awhile but it seem to "vanish" at a faster rate than the Delo (one qt. in 5K w/ Delo, twice that with Rotella).

I did some reading on the production of ash by the diesel engines and with the CRD having a cat, that ash can end up in the exhaust (blow-by) causing the cat to fail (plug). The CG-4 produces less ash. Which seems to make sense IF mineral based oils are OK on export engines as the probably don't install cats on some of the exports.

SLS · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:59 pm

I haven't seen this subject in a while.
Shortly after I bought my CRD I met two other CRD owners who were both using AMSOIL. Neither were dealers, they just like the product. So I looked into it and have been using AMSOIL 5W-40 European Engine Oil ever since. Live in upstate NY, the Jeep is outside I attempted to used the block heater once turned out it popped the breaker always starts, even on really cold days to my surprise. I changed the oil filter at time of oil change at 25,000 miles using the AMSOIL Absolute Efficiency Oil Filter number EAO34. I'm a little over 130,000 Mi. and would like to ad a by-pass filter if I could find a good place for it.

Because the Liberty CRDs came with aluminum oil pans, it’s very easy to overtighten the drain plug, so a few others have found out. To rule this out and ease oil change intervals in the future, I added a Fumoto drain valve. By simply lifting the lever and giving it a quarter of a turn, you can drain the crankcase without the need for tools.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:25 am

Sorry MR SLS the "Amsoil reseller" but I don't drink your Kool-Aid....your 5w-40w European oil is not even good to use in my land mower! Maybe if you live in the North Pole oil with such low viscosity can be use but certainly not in a CRD engine here in summer time. Two of us (CRD owners) try it and the low pressure light turn on last spring! We check for a bad connector or a bad sensor but everything was normal and functional with the exception of the noise our engine made with this "baking oil"...

I have use Amsoil oil in many car, truck and bike I own but for the first time I think your "expert" or call it Beans counter engineers like some members use to call them here never test it on the CRD for sure! The rest of the 2 gallons I purchase is now using to lube the bed of my lathe until I found better use for it... (I'm a preferred Amsoil member by the way...) Now until a group of "Know" old members CRD owners came here and tell us they have tested and approved your suggestion, nothing can make me change my mind about this product.

SLS · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:15 am

Ok!
I knew I could get some sparks flying with that one....
Don't really care what you use for oil in your CRD. Just telling you what three of us CRD owner are using. Oh! "OldSkull" you can send me the AMSOIL you don't want I can use it here on the farm in the diesel tractors.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:33 pm

What? I already been scam and now you ask me to paid for shipping that crap to you? :banghead:

Why you need it for your tractor since its "So Good" for your CRD? I got a better idea! I still got my last flush from my CRD and the EOA34 Amsoil filter I use, I did only 5,000 Miles before I flush that crap ....Since you change only every 25,000 Miles your good to make another 20,000 Miles with it! Pay the shipping and it's yours! :ROTFL:

Ps: You don't have to convince us you don't care...Running 25,000 Miles between flush with your magic oil in a VM engine already tell us a lot about how carefull you are... :dizzy:

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:02 pm

As with most forums, this conversation has degenerated to being way off topic.

So I gather the reason that dino oils OK for the CRD engines that are exported is most likely because they don't have the cat that is required in the USA. Dino oil produces ash, ash will clog up the USA EPA required cat. Synthetics produce much less ash in the combustion chamber that could clog the cat.

SLS · **Posted:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:19 am

Dennis MacGyver wrote:

As with most forums, this conversation has degenerated to being way off topic.
So I gather the reason that dino oils OK for the CRD engines that are exported is most likely because they don't have the cat that is required in the USA. Dino oil produces ash, ash will clog up the USA EPA required cat. Synthetics produce much less ash in the combustion chamber that could clog the cat.

Thank you Dennis for coming back with some useful info for the forum. Most of the stuff & people are helpful on this site. Drop me an email if you want to chat.
I think I saw some comments in one of these sites about the ash issue.
Bob is the Oil Guy - Putting the Simple Back into Viscosity http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/putting-the-simple-back-into-viscosity/
Lube Basics - http://www.synlube.com/basics.htm

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:21 am

GDE: I am curious, what issues have you seen with the M1 0w40? I was running this with a 4-5K change interval and a Pure One filter... I had no issues, but saw that you had previously mentioned issues with it. I know a few people who have run it for near 200K with no issues. I currently have RT6 in my rig right now. Again, I am just curious what, if any, issues there was as a direct result of the 0w40. Not trying to start an oil debate, it is simply out of curiosity...

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

The true diesel oils still have a small portion of ZDDP. Most of the automobile oils that are in use has little to no Zinc in them based on OBD requirements. Does it make sense to add a small portion of one of these ZDDP additives to the oil we use to protect the cams, rocker arms and tappets in these engines. I assume the 2.8 has flat tappets.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

MRausch82 wrote:

GDE: I am curious, what issues have you seen with the M1 0w40? I was running this with a 4-5K change interval and a Pure One filter... I had no issues, but saw that you had previously mentioned issues with it. I know a few people who have run it for near 200K with no issues. I currently have RT6 in my rig right now. Again, I am just curious what, if any, issues there was as a direct result of the 0w40. Not trying to start an oil debate, it is simply out of curiosity...

The main issue we have seen on several engines is excessive rocker arm needle bearing wear. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69274

It is not proven if this is from the higher EGR flowrates or 0W-40 oil. These are the two main differences we experience in North America vs. the rest of the world for the VM 2.8l engine.

OIL TYPES, 2006 Export engine VS domestic

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