Need some help, CRD's acting retarded now!!!!!!

dennhop · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:58 am

jkbkwarner wrote:

dennhop wrote:

Update...drove the Jeep to work today, and by the time I got to work, about a 40 minute drive, the Jeep had stalled on me at least 6 times. When I got here, I checked the fuel filter head...plunger was soft, and pushed in easily. I pumped it about a dozen times, till I could barely move it, and tried to restart. Restarted just fine. Every time it died on my while driving, it would take forever to restart. SO, that tells me it's time for me to replace the lines coming from the tank to the filter head.

I'd start with the soft hose(s) between the fuel tank and the metal lines just past (over) the rear differential. That is what solved it for me. :BANANA:

I'm in the process for searching right now, but is there a part number you ordered, or what size hoses did you use to replace them?

EDIT:
Found the hose diameter size, and figured that part out, so I guess all i need to know is how long of a hose did you use, to replace the lines?

CarQuest has Gage 5/16 rubber fuel line, for 1.76 a foot, wondering if anyone has any thoughts on that?

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:37 pm

dennhop wrote:

jkbkwarner wrote:

dennhop wrote:

Update...drove the Jeep to work today, and by the time I got to work, about a 40 minute drive, the Jeep had stalled on me at least 6 times. When I got here, I checked the fuel filter head...plunger was soft, and pushed in easily. I pumped it about a dozen times, till I could barely move it, and tried to restart. Restarted just fine. Every time it died on my while driving, it would take forever to restart. SO, that tells me it's time for me to replace the lines coming from the tank to the filter head.

I'd start with the soft hose(s) between the fuel tank and the metal lines just past (over) the rear differential. That is what solved it for me. :BANANA:

I'm in the process for searching right now, but is there a part number you ordered, or what size hoses did you use to replace them?

EDIT:
Found the hose diameter size, and figured that part out, so I guess all i need to know is how long of a hose did you use, to replace the lines?

CarQuest has Gage 5/16 rubber fuel line, for 1.76 a foot, wondering if anyone has any thoughts on that?

Be very careful about what hose you use, I'm a victim of my own effort. :banghead:

I think I got fuel injector grade fuel line and it was very flimsy. I bought 5' and cut in half for both the sending and return lines, which was just long enough. After reassembly, it was slow in bleeding the air out. I started the Jeep up. Let it idle, then took off for work. On the way it died. Turns out the vacuum created on the draw from the fuel injector pump would be enough to collapse the line. So be sure it is a stiff/thick maybe even ribbed type of hose, good and sturdy and buy a generous amount 7'(?) so it doesn't crimp or pinch or collapse. :BINGO:

dennhop · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:41 pm

The diameter should be a 5/16 hose, correct? same diameter for both sides?
just needed to make sure on that, as I don't have a choice...it has to be running tonight...

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:56 pm

I've posted on this before but I'm in the UK right now so cannot check my cheat sheet so you will have to search on my user name to find the post(s). Bottom line IMHO any fuel line you purchase at an auto parts store is highly likely to be trash at best, been there done that several times. Your best bet is marine grade fuel line that's diesel compatable as that line is designed to work on systems that when they go bad cause fire/explosion and other nasty things at sea where walking is not an option. Cost is going to run ca. $4-5+ per foot and it's worth every penny. Also won't collapse as fuel is pulled thru the line.

If you cannot get marine grade right now auto parts line will work for maybe 6 months while you get good line.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:57 pm

Yes, 5/16 sounds correct.

dennhop · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:14 pm

I have been searching, and I did find your post earlier, Papaindigo-unfortunately, I need to have the Heep up and running first thing tomorrow morning. There is a marine repair shop in town, so I may try and hit them up for the line, and see if theirs is the Marine grade-if not, I'll look at replacing it within the next couple of months, but hopefully, it will give me a temporary fix for now.

Also, thanks Geordi!

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:58 pm

I can't emphasize enough, get a stout fuel line even if temporary. I was of the same mindset to get something to get back on the road, only to have the cheap, flimsy line collapse. :dizzy:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:15 pm

Another source (likely to be cheaper than the marine store, yet the same exact hose) will be any Industrial Hose and Hydraulic place. You want to ask for a 5/16 FUEL RATED hose, chances are it will be Goodyear Blue and it will be a webbed-core multiple-layer hose - Blue "wrapped" appearance possibly on the outside, but an obvious inner liner, the nylon cord layer, and then the outer layers. Really good stuff, and anything fuel rated or petroleum rated will be just fine. If you get the same stuff I did, it will be like 300 psi capable, which means it is TOUGH, and you won't be able to collapse it with your hands - it won't be bothered by the vacuum either.

dennhop · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:19 am

Well, here's a little update....

I bought some marine grade fuel line from napa yesterday, and swapped out the lines. Then I spent the next 4 hours trying to get the tank straps to mate back up to the bolt holes.... :banghead:

Once I got that accomplished, I went ahead, got everything bolted back up, and started pumping the filterhead and cracking the bleeder screw to purge the air out of the lines. I did this about 3 times, and then went for a test drive. (I'm waiting on a new filter, picking that up today from NAPA) For a minute or two, it seemed like it was ok, but when I had my wife test drive it, she came back and said it seemed to be doing the same thing. So, I checked the filterhead, and the plunger had little resistance. More air in the lines. :furious:

I purged it again, a few more times, to see if maybe I hadn't gotten it, but I think that the filter is plugged, and sucking air, so I need to wait till I can get the new one on. However, in the process of that, something in the bleeder screw popped, and now fuel just pours out of it.... :furious:

Temporarily, I know this isn't a good fix, I found a bolt with the same thread size and pattern, and bolted that into the hole where the bleeder screw fits. Anyone know where I can get just a new bleeder screw???
After last night, the Heeps lucky I didn't just light it on fire with all the diesel I had to drain out of the tank to get it back in!!!!!!!!!!

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:05 am

There's your air leak then: The bleeder screw is a pointy-bottom, mating to another pointy spot aimed out - so the screw is trying to seal point-to-point and one of them got damaged.

Your best bet is go to Home Depot and get a small ball valve that fits. I believe the 1/8" thread that is used for an icemaker will work for you, but you will need to experiment a bit. Plan to install it with some teflon tape and never remove it again - the valve will be the new way of opening the bleeder.

dennhop · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:32 pm

ok, replaced lines, replaced filter, replaced the bleeder screw with a two piece brass fitting, with plenty of teflon tape, and a radiator style draincock. best I can tell, it's sealed up solid, but no matter what I do, I keep getting air in the lines. I'm at the end of my rope here, wondering, do I need a new filterhead, or what????
If it starts, it runs fine, until you shut it off, then it won't hold prime, and you have to pump it to keep it running.

Edit...just ordered the Airtex pump. I'm going to try and plumb that into the lines, and see if that helps at all. Anyone with one, have pics on how they have theirs setup, also, which wire to plug in where? sorry, I'm sure it's a simply thing, but as frustrated as I am with this now, nothing's simple....

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 pm

I'm sorry to hear you're not through. It has been supposed by others that there might be a doubling of the gasket at the filter/filter head. If you've replaced the filter and the gasket didn't come away with the filter, it might be sitting flush against the base of the filter head and hence the new filter and gasket would not seal. Or could it be the water sensor at the bottom of the filter wasn't tightened enough?

dennhop · **Posted:** Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:22 pm

1st off, I really do appreciate everything everyone has told me to check! Heres where I'm at today.
1. replaced fuel filter, and verified that the seals are not double stacked, the water drain is tight.
2. Replaced the factory soft fuel lines with Marine Grade rubber fuel line.
3. Replaced factory CAC hoses with new Samco hoses.
4. Cleaned MAP sensor.
5. Pulled the airbox to turbo hose off and inspected for cracks or leaks....hose is solid.
6. Pulled vacuum line off while watching for the rod on the turbo to drop-it did drop at least a half inch.
7. Verified i do have the upgraded fuel filter head. I do.
8. Replaced broken bleeder screw with a brass fitting with a radiator drain petcock valve, and teflon taped all threads. It doesnt leak.

Despite all this, I'm still getting air in the lines. It only seems to be a problem if i shut it off and try to restart immediately. It sat overnight and fired right up the other day, without issues, and also sat for a few hours and restarted without issues. Ive got the airtex pump on order, and hopefully it will be in next week. I plan on splicing it into the rubber lines that i used. If theres anything else i missed or you can think of, please let me know!

Also, this air in the lines problem only started being an issue after i did my timing belt...

dennhop · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:40 pm

Update:

I installed the Airtex pump today, between the rubber lines and the metal lines. Also replaced the petcock drain, as I had mashed up the brass fitting the last time I reinstalled it.

The Lib seems to have picked up a little bit of torque on the low end, I believe mostly due to the pump. However, I still am running into a hard start condition when you immediately shut off the Jeep and try and start it again. I'm not entirely sure it's air in the lines, as the Airtex should be creating enough airflow when priming to push fuel to the pump.

I'm still not getting much throttle response when I hit the skinny pedal at speed, and since it was dark out tonight, I couldn't tell, but I'm dumping clouds of black smoke every time I get on the throttle-about the same amount as my twin turboed 12v... If somehow I got off a tooth on the crank gear when I installed my timing belt, could that be causing all of this issue, or should I be looking at my EGR? My wife drives it the most, so she notices things about it more than I do, and she said that it seems that over time, its been loosing power. If the EGR was stuck either open or closed, my understanding is that at least one of those positions could cause a loss of power, and smoke.

The issue I have about the EGR, is that I've disconnected my MAF sensor, and run the EHM mod-did that the first two days I owned the darn thing. I'm thinking about pulling the EGR inlet off, to try and clean it out. I keep getting two codes repeatedly now, the MAF sensor, and the MAP sensor code...can't remember off the top of my head, but I think P0102, and P0069(?). From what I've been reading, there's not much left of the SEGR mod, and I have no funds to buy the GDE tune right now-I've dropped about 600 into the Jeep in the past few weeks trying to figure this thing out. Any help anyone can offer at this point would be greatly appreciated, as I'm on my last leg with this thing!!!!!! Is there anywhere that I could buy an egr blockoff plate, to try and delete the EGR? I'm in an area where I don't have to worry about emissions, and I need to get this thing back to normal and reliable like, yesterday!

dennhop · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:52 pm

Anyone? Help, guys, I'm at my wits ends trying to figure this out...

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Just a guess - have you looked at the fuel line from the fuel head - to the injector pump?

it's short - I wouldn't expect much - but it's under vac from the injector pump
enough vac under normal conditions to pull from the tank.

(the intank lift pressure stops at the fuel head)

dennhop · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:00 pm

Havent had a lot of time this week, but i did check the fuel filter head...the plunger is rocl solid, never been that tight. So, fuel pressure/air is no longer a problem. Im constantly throeing a P0069 code....i checled the map, and its clean....could it just be bad? If so, how to check that? Ive still got a hard atart when hot...if i shut it off and try to restart immediately, it cranks but doesnt start. Smoke isnt as bad, but its still there, and power loss is still apparent. Also, according to gauge, boost maxes about 18/19 psi. ny ideas?

dennhop · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:21 pm

I continue to get the P0069 code, so I ordered a new MAP sensor today, to see if that fixes the problem, but I'm not sure...fuel filter head is still firm, so I'm not losing any air since I put the airtex in. Could the MAP sensor going out, or being bad cause a hard start when hot condition though?

dennhop · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:09 pm

So another update, still haven't gotten to the bottom of the solution.
I've replaced the MAP sensor, which cleared out the P0069 code. The only one I have left is the MAF sensor code, which is because I still have the MAF sensor unplugged.
I'm still seeing smoke, and it still seems to be a bit sluggish under acceleration, but the sluggish part might just be me. According to the scanguage, when it is running right, I'm seeing about 18-19 psi of boost under WOT acceleration-I don't know whether that's normal or not. Here's what I've done so far to try and fix the issue.

EHM has been done.
Upgraded filterhead was already installed, however, was still getting air in the lines.
Replaced the rubber fuel lines from the tank with Marine Grade lines. Still getting air.
Installed an inline Airtex pusher pump, and that solved the air in the lines. Plunger is now rock solid.
Replaced the factory CAC hoses with SAMCO hoses.
Verified that the hose from the stock airbox to the turbo was still intact. Hose was solid, no signs of wear or cracking.
Replaced MAP sensor.
Pulled the intake horn off (that was a :furious:

) and cleaned it out, was pretty plugged up, and checked that the FCV moved freely. reinstalled the intake horn.
I did cut the cat out of the system, however for now, I'm still running the stock muffler, just because my wife was pissed that it sounded like a dump truck with a straight pipe exhaust. I do need to upgrade the muffler, just haven't had a chance to get around to it yet.

If I was off 1 tooth on the timing belt, would it be noticeable? I would think it would be, but it starts fine (unless hot, but that's another issue), idles smooth, runs fine (except for the smoke and possible loss of power-that could be my imagination though) doesn't knock, and the mileage is still around 26 in town when driven right.

I've verified that the turbo is functioning, by pulling the vacuum hose off, and watching the rod drop, and got about 1/2 in of drop on the the rod. I would think with the MAF unplugged, that the EGR wouldn't be an issue at all, unless somehow it got stuck open-could that cause the issue? I was looking at that, and trying to figure out with the EGR, what I could block off on that, to block the EGR? I don't have the money right now to buy a GDE tune, or a SEGR, but it seems to me that the SEGR has been discontinued? If I were to build a block off plate to go on the output of the EGR, would that work?
I know the principles of how an EGR functions, but not enough to be comfortable blocking off random ports, without knowing a bit more. I was thinking that maybe I could fabricate a plate to go on the two ports coming off the EGR, which if the EGR was stuck open somehow, it would trick it into acting like it was closed-does that make sense?

As far as the hard start, I do have a new CPS sitting in the house, that I intend to install one of these days-just need to find the time to do it. Any help you guys could provide would be greatly appreciated!

Seth

Need some help, CRD's acting retarded now!!!!!!

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