'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:32 pm

So we decided to take the JEEP to a mechanic because I simply don't have more than 45 minutes a day to look at it. Soooo, the diesel mechanic tells me that my engine is shot. He says it has excessive blow-by and that the EGR is stuck open. He isn't sure as of right now whether or not the EGR is stuck open because the computer is telling it to be or not. He says that when the engine is running, and the oil fill cap is off, oil will actually sputter and shoot out of the filler neck high enough to get small droplets on the hood. I do know that the oil level is a little high, but not so much that the dipstick says anything alarming. He thinks I should take it off of the road. Easy to do because we haven't even had a plate on it yet. At this point I am wondering if we have spent $14,000 on a $9000 Jeep that now needs over $5000 in engine repairs... :dead:

If you guys have any more insights, I need help very badly!

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:45 pm

wodmeup wrote:

So we decided to take the JEEP to a mechanic because I simply don't have more than 45 minutes a day to look at it. Soooo, the diesel mechanic tells me that my engine is shot. He says it has excessive blow-by and that the EGR is stuck open. He isn't sure as of right now whether or not the EGR is stuck open because the computer is telling it to be or not. He says that when the engine is running, and the oil fill cap is off, oil will actually sputter and shoot out of the filler neck high enough to get small droplets on the hood. I do know that the oil level is a little high, but not so much that the dipstick says anything alarming. He thinks I should take it off of the road. Easy to do because we haven't even had a plate on it yet. At this point I am wondering if we have spent $14,000 on a $9000 Jeep that now needs over $5000 in engine repairs... :dead:

If you guys have any more insights, I need help very badly!

Get another mechanic, yours is a moron who only THINKS he knows diesels. This isn't a 3500 psi indirect injection non-turbocharged diesel bulldozer. It is a precision machine with EXTREMELY high cylinder pressures.

My CRD does exactly the same oil-cap-spattering nonsense, and so have several others when I have been dumb and forgotten that they do that. It isn't excessive blowby, it is normal for this engine.
It also has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EGR FUNCTION, so the genius might be partly correct about the EGR being stuck open... But I wouldn't trust that one if he told me tomorrow the sun would rise in the East and be yellow.

You can deal (at least temporarily) with the EGR by removing the EGR pipe on the intake side (it is in the most convenient place possible, UNDER the intake elbow) :banghead:

and plug the intake elbow with a fat rubber plug. You will need to remove the intake elbow too, in order to seal it, and then wrap a big hose clamp around the entire elbow to hold the rubber in place against the intake boost pressure. Give it a drive, and see how it feels. I would also start the engine before putting the intake elbow back on, and feel (with a leather glove) if there is heat / pressure coming through the EGR outlet - That would indicate your leaking EGR for you, and it will need to be dealt with.

The preferred method is removal entirely, blocking off BOTH ends of the tubing where they attach to the exhaust and intake manifolds, and use of an SEGR and / or a GDE tune. Otherwise, you are looking at about a 6-7 hour labor bill and the overpriced cost of the EGR valve... And it will only last about 20k miles until failing again. If you *really must* replace the EGR with another functional unit, I have 2 that I would be happy to sell - both should be functional, because I did not have an EGR code on my CRD when I bought it, and I installed the SEGR before the first week was over. It was never used again. The second arrived with my replacement engine... And was never used either.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:37 pm

Geordi,

I definitely am encouraged. I ran out of money to spend on this thing about $3000.00 ago. I would be interested in a replacement EGR valve. I am probably going to eventually want to remove all of the emissions B/S once I get settled in a city that I know doesn't have strict emissions. I did manage to find a glass pack that is the exact size I would need to swap out that ruddy muffler...

I have definitely been more educated on the workings of the engine (thanks to lostjeeps.com) than this mechanic. He has admitted that he hasn't laid hands on one before. I was hoping that his experience elsewhere would lend itself well to the task at hand. He is absolutely the most honest mechanic in town though. He doesn't want to do a compression check because he doesn't want to charge me for it. He honestly thinks the motor is shot and a compression check is a waste of time and money.

If we can fix this silly thing, I will be the hero of the year for my wife. She is pregnant with our first and driving my dad's overheating PT Cruiser...

PM me a price and details. If I can talk you into taking a few photos and divulging a few specs, I really want to get rid of this awful emissions garbage too...

wodmeup · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:41 pm

I have been reading alot about the emissions system on this thing lately. I am reading alot about the SEGR. How can I get one? I found a thread here that shows lots of photos of a really large electrical plug with something on the order of 92(?) connections. Is this an easy mod, or am I better served going to GDE for a tuner tool? And does anyone have photos of their deleted EGR to show exactly what I need to accomplish? Our diesel mechanic just ended up scratching his head alot, and the problem is in my lap again. :ALONE:

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:39 pm

Deleting or blocking the EGR probably doesn't require much - but then you'd get CEL codes when the computer didn't see the right load from the EGR and FCV - along with the expected changes at the MAF and MAP sensors.

You can effectively disengage the EGR/FCV using either the SEGR or GDE tune - probably your best bet. At this point, since they're not behaving, before using either SEGR or GDE you may need to clean the EGR/FCV and lock them in their non-EGR state (EGR closed or blocked, and FCV open).

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:46 am

msilbernagel wrote:

Deleting or blocking the EGR probably doesn't require much - but then you'd get CEL codes when the computer didn't see the right load from the EGR and FCV - along with the expected changes at the MAF and MAP sensors.

You can effectively disengage the EGR/FCV using either the SEGR or GDE tune - probably your best bet. At this point, since they're not behaving, before using either SEGR or GDE you may need to clean the EGR/FCV and lock them in their non-EGR state (EGR closed or blocked, and FCV open).

I already suggested as much to him - pull that FCV disc, and block off plates onto both manifold collars. I made mine by cutting off the tubing just past the collars, and welding them shut. Then just reinstall the collar-plugs with the original clamps, and drive happy.

The GDE or SEGR will take care of the idiot light for you, when you are ready.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:03 pm

There is only one more thing really worrying me about the engine in this thing. It still has that knock at 2000 rpm or more. Could this symptom in any way be linked to the known problems at hand? Do diesels knock at higher rpm if they are running way too rich?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:13 pm

To get to that level of rich, you would be fogging the road behind you - badly.

What kind of knock is it? Where is it coming from? If it is only while moving, is it possible that it is suspension noise or a broken engine mount?

You can put the engine under load and get to 2000 RPM - sitting still - without too much trouble. Just put it in gear, stand on the brake and push the gas gently until you build to the RPM where it usually makes the noise. If it doesn't, then it is something other than the engine doing it.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:20 pm

I remember it being intermittent. I couldn't count on it to knock every time, but it distinctly has a handful of times. It is definitely a valveish or preignition-like sound. It comes from inside the engine for sure. I will be picking it up tomorrow in between jobs, and I will describe what I find. The EGR valve test is on the agenda too. If there is damaged metal parts in there, shouldn't there be a knock anytime the engine runs? Intermittent knocking makes me think unhappy combustion vs. engine damage. My opinion could be biased...

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Your opinion might be biased, but at the same time, it is also in agreement with my own opinions.

My opinion (worth the price you paid for it) is that mechanical tapping / knocking / pinging / banging internal to the engine does not go away, obviously these do not heal themselves. I have mechanical trouble right now, and the tapping / knocking is consistent and the only change it has made is to move around when I reshuffled the rockers. It has not gone away or been intermittent since the moment it started.

Intermittent noises have another cause. If your EGR was partially functional, but was sticking open or opening at the wrong time (and the stock computer wants it open A LOT - like 90% of the time) then you could easily have it stuck open and bleeding boost out into the exhaust when under power. That would drastically lower the boosted fresh air that the computer THINKS it is getting according to the MAF, and it over-fuels accordingly. The result is the engine can sound like a Ford Powerstroke low-pressure clattering diesel.... A noise normal for OTHER diesels, but wholly unknown for us and our high compression motors.

Plug the EGR tubes forever, and see if the noise returns.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:11 pm

Pinging! Yes! That's the word I am looking for. The sound very much reminds me of pinging. It makes sense based on what we know so far. The mechanic tells me that the EGR valve is stuck open. He admittedly doesn't know if it is stuck because the engine has glued it open with black death nastiness, or if the computer is telling it to stay open. The cause for the former possibility is obvious. My question is, could the computer be telling the EGR valve to remain open either more often (or perhaps more open) than the already outrageous 90% of the time?

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:17 pm

Get rid of the EGR completly like geordi stated is the best thing for sure. What i did was remove the EGR pipe at the exhaust manifold and the EGR. With it removed from the engine i cut it one inch long at the manifold side and had it welded shut and installed the little one inch pipe. Then contact GDE keith and get a new tune. Best then to remove all the EGR system when you get a chance.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:58 pm

I've been driving around with a metallic "appendix" stuck to the side of my engine for 101k miles now. For the last 50k miles or so, the EGR hasn't had any tubes at all, it would seem they "mysteriously" rotted away except for the last inch connected to each manifold. All the rest just vanished.

As it happens, while I was working on the top of the engine, I got a good look at the EGR valve itself, and apparently I scared it.... Because it unscrewed itself, unplugged the heater line, dropped to the ground, and just jumped into my box of spare parts to hide!

That heater line across the top of the engine sure looks purty where it plugs directly into the cylinder head, instead of wasting a trip through a useless EGR core.

It amazes me how much the dealer wants for that little bit of aluminum - $800! I've got TWO of them, and two EGR valves, and had no clue they were worth that much! The EGR valve itself is CHEAP next to what they charge for that cooler.

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:36 am

With the EGR and cooler removed i also ran the heater hose line directly to the head. Along with completly removing the butterfly valve. The intercooler intake hose hooks directly to the intake elbo.

The jeep has never ran so well.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:18 pm

Cool.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:39 pm

In talking to the mechanic I learned that he believes the engine is shot because of the oil spurting out of the filler neck and the CCV dumping so much into the intake. Based on what I read here, this is all normal behavior for a bone stock CRD. I am really thinking we are close to nailing this thing down, because he says that the EGR valve is open almost constantly. He says it closes very briefly as rpm drops and it returns to idle, but it opens up again at idle. If I remember right, not even this overly generous valve should be open at idle. I would bet it is open at WOT as well. He unplugged the electrical connector at the EGR valve and it is still open. Are they spring loaded closed? I also have a very leaky band clamp on the back side of the exhaust manifold right at the firewall...

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:06 pm

The reason there is so much oil mist spraying around in the top of the valve cover is VM's design: The lifters have a small hole at the very top, which is where the oil gets sprayed out / ejected when the lifter is compressed. That would spray very close to the oil filler neck, as well as fairly close to the underside of the CCV. As we have said - perfectly normal. Don't open the oil cap while it is running unless you want to be spattered in hot oil!

The EGR IS open at idle. Remember where the computer is using EGR like 90% of the time? The 10% it is not used is pretty much only when you are accelerating away from lights or at WOT.

The manifold clamp that is loose is also losing you LOTS of exhaust pressure, which would drive your turbo instead. Take that clamp OFF, remove that pipe, and make a blocking plate to plug that exhaust manifold hole. That will solve that end of it... Then do likewise with the intake side. The EGR is likely stuck open, I do not believe it is spring loaded however.

Lastly - find a different mechanic. If he already thinks the engine is shot, he WILL NOT be taking proper care of his techniques and could easily do things that make his suspicions come true.

wodmeup · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:39 pm

Definitely won't be taking the Jeep back there. If I remove the crossover pipe from the manifold to the EGR and block both ports, do I need to block anything else in order to test run the Jeep? Also, how SHOULD my heater hoses be routed?

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:34 pm

The ECO tune from Green Diesel Engineering will alleviate the EGR and the FCV without throwing a check engine light.

That tune in and of itself will remove your EGR and FCV 99% of the time, the 1% you really don't have to worry about because it's only under very certain violent situations that you shouldn't ever encounter under normal driving or even fun romping around.

Insofar as your other issues, listen to the people here, they probably know more than 90% of the mechanics you will run into in your real life situations.

Too bad you're not closer close to Nashville, TN I'd be happy to help you.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 pm

wodmeup wrote:

Definitely won't be taking the Jeep back there. If I remove the crossover pipe from the manifold to the EGR and block both ports, do I need to block anything else in order to test run the Jeep? Also, how SHOULD my heater hoses be routed?

As long as the two manifolds have been sealed (and there are two separate pipes connecting to the EGR) then you don't need to do anything else with the heater lines. You can leave the heater lines alone and only unbolt the connecting metal pipes that the exhaust flows through.

As far as using the GDE tune as the only method of eliminating the check engine light, that is true... But the EGR in Wodmeup's Jeep is most likely stuck at least partially open. Eliminating the EGR use by the computer is important, but he needs to block the flow since the valve itself cannot do that anymore.

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'06 CRD Smokes worse than my Cumins 12 valve! Help!!

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