Starter going bad?

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

I have an '05 CFD that will not start every couple of days, over the last few days here is what has happened(battery was topped off with distilled water last weekend, battery is right at 3 years old, ~130K miles)

Would not start for my wife Friday morning, the neighbor jumped it off. No short trips, drove 30+ miles each way to and from her destination. It was put on a changer at 2 amps until the charger read complete.

Saturday started up fine in the morning, drove 2-3 miles to work, then home, and then 10 miles to and from another destination.

Sunday stated fine in the morning, drove 2-3 miles to work, and would not start in the afternoon and had to be jump started. She brought it home and I drove about a mile to AutoZone,(did not shut it off when she got home) the battery voltage tested good, and tested good under load. Alternator tested good too.

If not the stater, what else could it be?

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

Also, when it does not start there is no click, just turn the key and nothing, everything that is lit up goes dim to out.

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:58 am

Before you replace the starter, replace the ASD Relay.

Papaw always taught me to try the cheapest things first.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:43 pm

Do you have a quality batter or a cheap one? Also, how are your connections? Everything shutting down sounds more like something other than the starter.

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click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

Connections on the battery and alternator are good, need to check the starter. The battery is a gold Duralast from autozone.

My theory, and I am far from an electrical expert, is that the starter is drawing all available amps and is just not turning over, and jump starting it just gives it the needed boost in amps to get it turning over.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Start with the simple:
1. turning the ignition key turns a shaft that runs under the steering column. That shaft is a known failure point that can cause intermittent no start but shouldn't be related to jumping. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574
2. that shaft turns the actual ignition switch on the left side of the steering column. See same post.
3. IF both of those work then the ECU will "allow" the vehicle to be started but only if adequate battery power is available. When I say adequate I mean within the range, a relatively narrow range, that the ECU will accept.

If 1 and 2 are ok then consider #3. Clues everything goes dim to out; it starts when jumped; battery needed charging; battery did not charge adequately when driven; you added water which indicates it's not a sealed battery which translates into somewhat less than top quality AGM mat or gel sealed battery; it's a 3 year old battery and very few batteries are good enough to warranty for more than 3 years and you can pretty much count on a 3 year warranty battery dieing at 37 months; etc. I'm assuming the alternator was in fact putting out an adequate amount of power (i.e. the reading was on a gauge with actual #s not just good/not good ranges, if the latter the gauge is junk) and that the serpentine belt idler is not bouncing around which would indicate a bad alternator clutch and by extension poor alternator output. My personal bet, tests notwithstanding, is your battery is bad or going bad (may have an intermittent internal short between cells) and simply won't put out enough juice to run stuff and crank at the same time. Of course you could have a bad battery to grd or starter to grd connection or it's possible something electrical is "on" that shouldn't be when the ignition is "off" (been there done that with a glove box light stayed on when glove box was closed). You might check for battery drain with ignition "off" but if at all possible I'd swap in a loaner battery and see if the problem goes away.

FYI IMHO the minimum acceptable CCA rating for a CRD battery is 800CCA although something in the high 700 range might do.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Sounds to me like a battery. I would replace it with a good battery, like the Sears Die Hard Platinum P1. A bit pricey, but the other types simply don't last as long on the CRD's it seems. It is also possible that you have a faulty alternator or an alternator decoupler that has failed. Check the output voltage while the engine is running. If it is around 14v, you are good. Next turn everything on, all lights, high beams, ac, blower on max, rear defrost, etc. Check the voltage again. The load may bring it down, but not a ton. If all check out, replace the battery. My guess is the battery has gone Tango Uniform.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:00 pm

That's pretty much my thought too. Note that I have the Sears P-1 and it's a great battery with a good warranty but if you don't want to spend quite that much money the Interstate Group 34 Mega-tron 85-month MTP-34 is nearly as good in CCA, has a good warranty and costs quite a bit less. I would stick with an AGM (mat) sealed battery but that's just my opinion. FYI in theory we are supposed to use a Group 34R battery but a regular Group 34 works fine installed with the terminals reversed (+ on driver's side) although you might have to twick the negative cable slightly and of course the battery insulation mat won't fit right but if you feel like you need the mat that's easily fixed.

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

The battery is not an agm or gel battery, it is the high grade of AutoZone house battery. It was three years old on the 17 th of this month, and it has 800 ccas. I will check out the voltage as recommended, and the gauge they used was an analog gauge that could apply a load to the battery.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:08 am

For what it's worth all the AutoZone house batteries I've glanced at online (not all their batteries but all that I've looked at) have a 3 yr warranty which is where you are at. Also for what it's worth years ago and different vehicle I had a battery with an intermittent internal short between cells that intermittently would not start the vehicle but later would start just fine - point being load tester found nothing only battery tear down did. I still lean toward battery and/or alternator rather than the starter. As I mentioned earlier do you have access to known good battery that you could swap in briefly to see if the problem goes away?

Does anyone out there know how to check the draw/drop in voltage associated with turning on the starter? I may not be saying this right but wonder if there is a way to determine if the battery goes tango uniform when the starter load is applied or if, in fact, the starter is trying to pull too much of a load.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:13 am

Papa.

They used to make small analog meters you simply placed over the battery cable and it would show you the current draw when the starter was energized :BANANA:

I tried searching for one but everything has gone digital, nothing simple anymore :dizzy:

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:29 am

What you're looking for is a clamp meter. They aren't cheap.

huntinhick · **Joined:** Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:18 pm **Posts:** 9

Last month I chased the same issue, i pulled the starter and had it tested twice. checked the battery and had the alternator checked. cleaned all the cables even those on the starter and it was still giving me a hard time. Next day I went out and started it and have not had an issue in a month. I can only think it must have been a bad connection or a dirty cable that was sometimes causing and issue. The tech that checked the alternator said that there was a drop going into the battery but other than that everything was working fine.

carl

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

huntinhick wrote:

Last month I chased the same issue, i pulled the starter and had it tested twice. checked the battery and had the alternator checked. cleaned all the cables even those on the starter and it was still giving me a hard time. Next day I went out and started it and have not had an issue in a month. I can only think it must have been a bad connection or a dirty cable that was sometimes causing and issue. The tech that checked the alternator said that there was a drop going into the battery but other than that everything was working fine.

carl

Did jump starting yours get it running?

I had the battery tested again last night, on the one they have in the back at autozone. It applies a load based on the cca, and it tested fine. Unless it is an intermittent fault in the battery I do not believe it is the problem.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:47 am

The cheap too small load testers Autozone uses do not have enough capacity to test a battery for a CRD or even a smaller VW TDI. You would think the Bean Counters who run Autozone would figure out having a battery tester that has the needed capacity at each store would sell more batteries, but who says Bean Counters have any sense.
A volt meter on the battery terminals where you check the cranking voltage that should stay over 10 volts cranking and a clamp meter that measures the amperage is a better way to test the battery. Since volts X Amps = Watts and more Watts mean more cranking power, cheating either one will result in a slow crank or no start. When I have a problem starting, I test the voltage on both the battery posts when cranking and on the cable clamp. Also I check the starter cable eyelet voltage and starter cable stud. If you get a voltage drop across the connection, that is your problem.

huntinhick · **Joined:** Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:18 pm **Posts:** 9

I tried jumping mine but it did nothing. if i kept trying the key eventually it would turn over, a couple of times I had to just wait and come back the next day and it would turn over. I was starting to think it was the key maybe. I really am not sure if just taking out the starter and cleaning all the connections knocked loose something, fixed a short or grounded wire or something of the sort. I have a red optima battery in mine and it tested good but that it needed a charge, the starter was tested at schucks and they spun it up and have a read out of what it draws to make it work and mine seemed fine. I was sure it was the starter or solenoid and was going to replace it anyway when it started working again. there was a difference in what the computer was saying was going into the battery and what a tester clipped to the terminals said was going in so cleaning all the terminals was the last thing I did before it started working again even then it was not an immediate fix it still acted up the day I cleaned the terminals but the next day it started working fine. like I said it still has me shaking my head.

carl

Starter going bad?

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