My CRD Saga Continues

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:18 am

Sometimes it really is "what oil changes". I know one otherwise very smart person who wrecked a Volvo engine at about 25K by never changing or checking oil level; drove it until the engine locked up on the side of the road.

As to the great oil debate; the DCJ spec is "API categories CF or better and the requirements of DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-10725" and the Owner's Manual specifically speaks to SAE 0W-40 Mobil 1. At that point it gets funky:
1. API ratings change over time and CF is a 1994 standard that's been out-of-date since 1998 when it appears to have been superseded by CH-4 (see http://www.api.org/certifications/engin ... 120210.pdf). I have no clue why that dated standard was listed other than the obvious copy/paste problem. Based on today's API ratings CH-4 to CJ-4 oils are ok so long as you are using fuel with sulphur content below 500ppm. That said I defy you to find a copy of the MS-10725 standard or if you find it get a translation to API and, to add to the fun, apparently export market Owner's Manuals contain different oil weight/viscosity recommendations that may or may not have anything to do with climate as if DCJ doesn't know that US climate can range from 120F in Tempe, AZ to -40F or worse in northern states (I've excluded Alaska).
2. IMHO, while the oil weight/viscosity certainly matters it matters more that you keep the oil soot content down by some combination of GDE tune and relatively frequent oil change intervals. I know some have done it but I, personally, think 6 digit oil change intervals are just asking for trouble and I won't go past 6,000 miles. Sorry but in the real universe oil is cheap and turbos/rockers/blocks are expensive. Same pretty much goes for use synthetic vs staight dino given the tiny oil passages in our engines.

So - good quality appropriate diesel rated synthetic oil with a change interval of ca. 6k miles and a weight consistent with the climate at your specific location. I won't even attempt to get into the differences in mult-weight oils other than to say that the "bottom" number matters when the weather is cold and the "top" number matters when the engine is at operating temp pretty much regardless of ambient temp so a 5wXXX is better than a 15XXX for cold weather but a XXX40 performs about the same regardless of the value of XXX when the engine is at operating temp.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Friend in High School - always checked the oil level
but no one ever told her she had to change the oil

but hey - Small block Chevy - it still ran when she traded it in at 120K
(the salesman was telling her about free oil changes on her new car.... that's when she learned that she should change the oil....)

although for the CRD
we may be facing a choice of having a thin enough oil to ensure good Turbo lubrication
or thick enough to ensure good rocker arm protection...
seems like we're borderline either way.

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:05 pm

Guys, in the USA, it's all about the cat. I add a zinc additive, to hell with the cat, when it gets plugged I'll gut it !

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:53 pm

Debate your oils all you want, but the bottom line is this: Above FREEZING - ALL 0w40 or 5w40 or 15w40 is... 40 weight.

The 5w or 0w ONLY exists when the temperature of the oil is BELOW FREEZING. Once you are above freezing, they are all the same non-winter number, in this case, 40 weight.

With that in mind - I lost 2 engines to lower bearing failure while running less than 5000 mile oil changes on ONLY M1 or Rotella synthetic 5w40. 0w40 would not have made a bit of difference because the temperature hasn't been below freezing in 20 months plus where my CRD was.

The oils are not the problem - the exceedingly tiny tolerances in our engine are. The tolerances on the main bearings are .001 to .003 - In mechanical terms, that might as well be nothing at all. The passages are too small and the oil pressure is too low for those tolerances. Do I think there is a solution? Certainly, given that these engines ARE used elsewhere in the world and we aren't hearing about them falling apart with better-than-proper-maintenance... But I don't know what that solution is. Maybe it is a larger / stronger oil pump. Maybe it is a secondary oil pump. Maybe it is the crap fuel in this country (which we can't really change) but then again, these are used in South Africa with standard oils and probably lower quality fuel even. Maybe the sulfur in the fuel helped things? I don't know, there has to be some reason beyond the stupid EPA wanting everything to protect the cat and butchering the oil in the process. The lack of zinc would affect the cam hardness... But the main bearings are much softer metal to begin with.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:46 pm

For my CRD NO addives and never use Rislone engine wash. BAD for the lower end!

naturist · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Boy, @ChooChooman, the PO did unload that Jeep just in the nick of time, it seems. And it seems "what oil change" was indeed the deal.

My 2005 owner's manual specified Mobil 1 0w-40, with 5w-40 a second choice. I've run 0w-40 for the initial 6,500 miles, plus two other intervals in the cycle of every 6,250 miles (the severe service oil change regimen) and 5w-40 Mobil 1 TDT for all the rest. My engine has had NO oil-related problems in its 158,000 mile life. My turbo is perfect, in spite of having blown the high pressure oil line once while towing. My cams, rockers, and lifters are all also perfect. We just had the head off for a blown head gasket about 8,000 miles ago. I have also a Jetta TDI which has run Mobil 1 TDT for nearly all of its 150,000 life, and it too shows no signs of oil-related issues. Rotella 5w-40 has been used for two or three of the Jetta's 10,000 mile OCIs, and I can assure you that any of those 3 oils will serve you well.

There are 2 reasons you don't want to use the 15w-40 oils. #1 is that they are not synthetics, which are really needed to keep your turbo in good shape. #2 is that the 15w-40 takes way too long to reach the farthest points of the system on cold startups. Since about 80% of normal wear on bearing surfaces occurs due to cold start ups, you definitely want to minimize the time those surfaces are poorly lubed. And it should be noted that close tolerances and small spaces to be lubed would make thicker oils slower still. The TDI forum had a post once graphing that time interval, and as I recall, it was 5 seconds for the 5w oils and 45 seconds for the 15w oils. I could be off on my recollection, since I was convinced and never plan to use the 15ws.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:47 pm

Naturist,

Thanks for the tip. I guess I will keep using TDT.

The end is near. Almost back together. Possibly tomorrow!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:31 pm

She is alive! Henry says ready tomorrow. He wants to double check everything before sending her home with me. As I mentioned before, Henry is thorough and a perfectionist.

Also, got 99% of my Racor filter together. Unfortunately, the plug doesn't come with the metal prongs, just the cases. Would anyone be interested in a Racor filter kit that is almost ready to install?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:43 pm

Good for you! What was the total time down? What oil did you decide to run?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:09 pm

Down about one month. One week was because other work was ahead of me. (He is busy).

We are going to talk oil tomorrow when I pick it up.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:22 pm

With that much apart i would do a quick oil change within 2000 miles. I did this, with only the intake off. The oil will be much cleaner.

That first ride will be like getting in the first time. Good Luck!!!!

striperman36 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:14 pm

Henry is letting you have it back?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm

Got her back today. OMG, she runs so much better! :JEEPIN:

1st, He says I need a few things. 1) A good radar detector 2) A laser Diffuser (I doubt they work) and 3) Better tires, wheel spacers, and snip snip to make them fit. As for 1 and 2, he says that she is a peppy lil thing and if I don't watch out, I'd be getting lots of speeding tickets. He drove it for a bit today, and next thing he knew, he was doing 85. As for me, I am a bit calmer and cruise control is my answer. As for 3, I will see what my 245/70R16 snow tires on my winter rims look like before I go any bigger and with spacer/different offset rims. The rims I have for winter, which came of my Caliber, and fit perfectly with the centering ring removed, and are 16x7 with almost the same offset. I will post pics later, as I may put them on tomorrow for a test run.

I have all the parts that came off it, also. I will try and take pics and maybe take a video. I have a busy day ahead of me for tomorrow. I have to finish installing my gauges, install my Racor (maybe without the temp sensor for now), and clean her up.

As for the oil, he is not a fan of Synthetic. He prefers Dino oil. He said 5000K oil changes should be fine under my driving situation and Synthetic should be ok. I will probably do a quick change in about 1200 miles just to get it to an even number for oil changes. I may run an oil analysis, too, just to see where we are at.

Review, here is what she got.
New GP 5V Steel
New Timing Belt
New Idlers
New Accessory Belt
New Lifters/Rockers
New Exhaust Cam
New Samcos
New Water Pump
New Stock Thermostat
New Turbo

Don't ask for the damage. That part hurts.

Miyanovich · **Posted:** Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:18 pm

"Don't ask for the damage. That part hurts."

Aint that the truth, brother!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:55 am

Glad to hear it's alive again. Sorry about the long list of parts though.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:52 pm

head gasket, gasket , gaskets, gaskets everywhere.

It's back , now don't blow it up

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:27 pm

Well, time for a few pics. I will post pics of the parts later....

Engine bay with the new Samcos and Just installed Racor 2 Micron filter. I still have to tidy up the installation.

Snow Shoes!!! I got these rims when I origionally bought snow shoes for my Caliber. Got them at closeout from Tirerack, since they didn't have steels that fit. They fit the Liberty perfectly, only mod was to remove the centering ring.

Another look at the snow shoes.

Freshly installed Glowshifts. I had a little issue securing the gauge pod. Anyone else have issues securing it? The screws that came with it was useless.

jlgail4309 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:34 pm

Really like the Glowshifts were did you get them. Pictures look great

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:39 pm

jlgail4309 wrote:

Really like the Glowshifts were did you get them. Pictures look great

www.glowshiftdirect.com and the pod from JBA, but he had it drop shipped from gaugepods.com. I am not all that impressed with the gauge pod. But, our Liberties are limited to what we can get.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:34 pm

There are no gauge pods made for the 06 Liberties :furious:

Something was changed on the pillar and so the available pods are for 02 through 05.
But you were able to make it fit so so now you know the difference.

My CRD Saga Continues

Who is online