I know that the oil topic has been discussed in detail ... but ... a couple thoughts here ...

Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 is the only oil that I am aware of that currently lists the Chrysler MS-10725 http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_ ... 271157.pdf

I have no idea what this Chrysler standard actually is (google searches reveal nothing) but the manual says engine oil is to meet this spec and the API SM/CF. The originally specified Mobil 1 0w-40 no longer lists this spec in its current formulation.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/ ... 0W-40.aspx

If a person has the GDE tune so that the EGR is neutered and the soot intake is minimal would it be better to run a Euro oil than an HDEO, especially Pennzoil Ultra since it meets the all the specs.

Here is why I'm suggesting this. I ran Rotella T6 the first winter in my jeep and had hard starting on cold mornings unless it was plugged in. I currently am running the Castrol Edge SPT 5w-40 which is a Euro formula and it runs noticeably smoother and quieter, and starts significantly faster than with the T6.

I have not been able to find the zinc levels in this Castrol product but it seems like a very good fit. Castrol tech service won't give me the green light to run it since it has not been tested and approved to the MS-10725 standard. I'm thinking that perhaps the Pennzoil may run as smooth and meet all the specs and perhaps provide a better level of cleanliness (if their advertisement is accurate).

Has anyone else noticed any benefits in running a Euro formulation over an HDEO (sound of motor or UOAs)? If the soot level is minimized the faster flowing Euro formulation A3/B4 oils may be preferable for this motor. Perhaps it will flow better in the small oil passages and provide better overall lubrication pressure.

I'm not big on Mobil 1 0w-40 due to the amount of high iron and shearing seen in so many of UOAs with it so I'm not going in that direction. I'm trying to do the best I can for this motor's lubrication since it seems somewhat prone to premature failure with American oil.

Anyway if anyone wants to stress more over oil, please offer your thoughts.

Lol......I'm starting to wonder if the Chrysler MS-10725 spec is an urban legend as no one can find any info on it as to what it actually states/specifies.... J/K. Interesting question about the Pennzoil 5w-40 if you have a GDE tune. Still wonder if the diesel rated oil would be better for it though.

Jim

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Stock 06 CRD Limited
Timing belt replaced at 110,000 miles

What was further interesting was that Castrol would not recommend using their 5w-40 because it was not tested and approved to that Chrysler spec. even though it met SM/CF and ACEA A3/B4. Of course whenever this engine is used elsewhere in Europe in other applications the Chrysler spec would not be used at all. Is it possible that a part extraneous to the engine such as the Garret turbo benefits from a Euro spec oil more than an HDEO spec oil?

"Of course whenever this engine is used elsewhere in Europe in other applications the Chrysler spec would not be used at all."

Not so sure about that, but maybe so. I agree that the MS-10725 spec is an enigma. When a VM engine is used in any application, VM Engineering should most certainly be involved. I do have an idea as to how to find it; I won't share my thoughts on that one... I'll just see if I can source it through some people I know.


"Is it possible that a part extraneous to the engine such as the Garret turbo benefits from a Euro spec oil more than an HDEO spec oil?"

That is doubtful based on the information that I do have about the Garrett turbo on our CRD. What information I have refers to normal operation oil pressure variance and oil temperature levels. IIRC, the viscosity and volume of oil is something that Garrett defers to the engine manufacturer. Keep in mind, while significant, they are but one component on an engine. They may offer suggestions on oil, but my thought is the ultimate decision is up to the manufacturer, taking into account the various factors in their decision making process about such things, i.e. warranty, cost, desired change intervals, marketing, etc.

As to which oil I use, please refer to my signature; I have had great service from it. It used to have the MS 10725 designation until marketing recently changed at Amsoil. Still, the long list of MFG specs that it does meet is quite long. Hope this helps.

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FWIW,
Hoosier CRD

#1 Liberty: '05 CRD Limited Stone White
(SOLD Dec. 2013)
#2 Liberty: ???
"Why guess when you can know?"- Carroll Smith

My comment on the Garret turbo was more of an "example" of a part that is extraneous to the engine that could "possibly" have an influence on Chrysler giving an oil spec in addition to the engine builder. The bottomline is i have no idea what the Chrysler spec represents or if it has any meaningful value.

Do you think the AFL is better than the "full SAPS" Amsoil Euro 10w-40? I thought of this oil as an option also since its no harder to obtain than the Pennzoil Ultra.

[quote="Thunderstick"]Do you think the AFL is better than the "full SAPS" Amsoil Euro 10w-40? [quote]

Short answer is "Yes." One for the viscosity, VM, via Diamler Chrysler, is suggesting either the 0W-40 or 5W-40. Secondly, the AFL is "Mid-SAPS" as advertised. Honestly, I need to bone up on the whole SAPS thing. My Amsoil contact and I had a recent conversation about the "Full-SAPS" line. He suggested using it if for some reason the Catalytic Convertor were to fall off and get replaced with a replacement pipe. Mine hasn't yet and may not.

I'm sticking with the AFL for now. It is truly a case of "It ain't broke" so, I'm not in a fixin' mood. Hope this helps.

_________________
FWIW,
Hoosier CRD

#1 Liberty: '05 CRD Limited Stone White
(SOLD Dec. 2013)
#2 Liberty: ???
"Why guess when you can know?"- Carroll Smith

O YA.. The Oil question?

From what I have found from LOST there are more Mobil 1 0w-40 users with less problems. I beleve due to 0w-40 Viscosity Index 185 that meets the manual. The lower viscosity helps with cold starting and flows thru the small openings in the lifters and rockers.

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

I'm leaning toward the same conclusion--that significant diesel wear occurs on cold starts and this is where a Euro oil may flow faster than an HDEO. In my experience I can hear a definite difference on cold starts between the 5w-40 Rotella T and the 5w-40 Castrol Euro. So if soots levels are minimized through GDE tunes the Euro oil may actually be better for the motor.

I also am convinced that keeping the jeep plugged in over the winter on a timer is the way to go for longevity. The elimination of all those cold starts reduces engine wear and increases battery and glow plug life.

I like the CRD and don't see any other small diesel options in this sector of the auto market ... but if I have one premature catastrophic failure I would consider this vehicle to have been a waste of money and probably would not want to be at risk for another event. So far the Liberty has been very good for us. Hoping it stays that way ... but all the reports of failures make me want to take every lubrication precaution I can.

Oh yea ... and if the CAT should fall off ... so much the better ... just focus on a clean burn in the engine rather than in the exhaust ...

VM spec for standard use is 10w40, B3, B4, B5 or CI 4. 0w40 or 5w40 can also be used to assist with cold starts and fuel economy apparently.

I have put 0w40 Mobil 1 New Life (SN) for the first time for winter and it turns over nicely on cold starts, certainly felt smoother!

In the UK the 2.5 and 2.8 are usually specced for the same oils.

The engine was fitted to London Taxis(what I have, not got a KJ yet) the Cherokee Jeep from 2002 in 2.5 with a manual box and a year or so after that with a 2.8 and autobox, I think the 2.8 might have been available with a manual but not sure and finally the LDV Maxus van was fitted with the 2.5 version aswell.

I will report back about oil consumption using 0w40.

Normally needs about half a litre over an OCI. OCI 8/9k on full synth and 5/6k on semi synth, did run synth blend Maxlife Diesel 10w40 for 8k.

Looking towards Shell Rimula R6 LM 10w40 or Delvac XHP LE 10w40 for next OCI.

Any one run Lubo Moly/ Liqui Moly Top Tech 5w - 40 ? http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_3700.html?OpenDocument&land=DE

or use any of these German Companies oil products? I have used there diesel treatment products for some time and think they work great especially for cleaning the injectors. Though I also use Power Service too mostly to prevent gelling when the Jeeps is someplace cold say the mountains of Colorado.

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2006 CRD, 2nd Owner, GDE ECO, 5V steel fast-glow plugs, updated fuel-head

Bio-Diesel when/where I can. In Houston available at http://www.houstonbiodiesel.com/ and it conforms to ASTM. They also have home brew classes!!

60 % Suburbs N. of Houston, TX - Conroe / The Woodlands Area 40 % Colorado and the West

Liqui Moly products are very popular in Germany which can only be a good thing as car as qulity goes.

The TBN of the oil you mention is 7.6 which is typical of C3 oils from my research.

Don't know how it would hold up with the higher sulphur diesel you have in the US, apparently California is a little closer to the sulphur levels of Europe, but C3 oils also tend to be used in extended drain maintenance schedules so I would suspect they have additives to improve retention of TBN

5w30 C3 is specced for 18k miles or 2 Years in my Pathfinder.

Which is the OCI it had for the first 3 1/2 years and 90k miles.

Try over on bobistheoilguy as there are a few people using Liqui Moly products.

I have been doing a little reading at Bobtheoilguy.com. In basic primer on that site he says you need to evaluate pressure and oil temperature to determine the ideal oil. This is challenging since the crd lacks any oil gauges and kick off all scanners I own after a few minutes.

I just wanted to see if any users on this forum have used, tried or have thoughts on the Lubo moly 0w - 40 and 5w-40. From my reading and understanding it would seem that holding additive packages constant the ideal viscosity oil would be a 0w - xx because most wear occurs in startup. The 0w is going to flow faster and thus reduce wear at startup.

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2006 CRD, 2nd Owner, GDE ECO, 5V steel fast-glow plugs, updated fuel-head

Bio-Diesel when/where I can. In Houston available at http://www.houstonbiodiesel.com/ and it conforms to ASTM. They also have home brew classes!!

60 % Suburbs N. of Houston, TX - Conroe / The Woodlands Area 40 % Colorado and the West