Not sure were srytucker got the idea that the VM is a legendary engine in the UK or Europe.

It has a reputation for going bang, as said, bottom end failures.

And for not being very good on fuel.

It was also fitted to the LDV Maxis van before LDV went bust.

If you look on the UK eBay site you will see that most of the Maxus vans on there need new engines!

Most failures are between 90k and 130k.

I'll sell you one with 130k miles, and a slightly blown head gasket!

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD
126k miles
Average 23.9MPG
GDE Hot Tune
GDE Transmission Towing Tune
Suncoast Torque Converter
Transgo Shift Kit
Muffler Delete
Stant 195 inline t-stat

One thing they are not known for is blowing head gaskets, I have not heard of a single blown HG or multiple or even singular rocker failure.

One theory is the engine is not really suited to being mates to an automatic box in the taxis or that it gets too hot in the odd shaped engine bay.

One thing that has surprised me is the price of the CRD models in the US.

A nice 2005 CRD in the UK would be around $7/8000.

The option is also there to buy slightly older ones such as a 2001 or 2002 model for more like $3/4000.

I have read elsewhere though that the US built CRD's have modified fuel pumps with some form of anti-wear coating inside the pump.

To combat the poorer or perhaps more variae diesel quality in the US, that made me consider buying a US model rather than converting a UK model to LHD.


The massive import duties makes the 3.7L a fun but financially less viable option as import duty is based on engine capacity.

I have friends that have a farm in Zimbabwe and they have sent over a couple of 2.5 CRD's and they have proved rugged.

The VM engine is actually a rather an advanced as far as it's engineering goes.

Hence why they are so expensive to rebuild.

I am not sure if buying them direct from VM in Italy would be possible for CRD owners in the US?
I can get a 2.5 CRD lump fully reconditioned by a Taxi specialist for £3000 fitted.

The only two vehicles that I know that still have this engine fitted new are the London Taxi (currently in bankruptcy) and the Chrylser Voyager Minivan, which has the 2.8.

The Voyager is built in the US I think, but for some reason doesn't have a reputation as having engine troubles beyond those normally experienced by a family orientated vehicle, go figure!

The "cool down" period is hyped all out of proportion among diesel enthusiasts. Unless you've been towing something fairly heavy it's just not needed, the turbo just doesn't get that hot. I never idle my jeep before shutting it off, just pull in and turn it off. My 99 dodge diesel doesn't get a cool down unless I've been towing the gooseneck with the tractor on it, it'll get a little hot pulling the 17K load so I"ll generally let it idle for a few minutes before shutting it off. I've never had any turbo issues out of either of them, and the truck's got 376K miles on it now. I think a far far bigger danger to your turbo is putting aftermarket intakes and filters on them, the turbo needs clean air to stay healthy and that means no K&N filters or junk like that.

I agree with an earlier poster who said that guys having the most problems are usually the guys who have to tinker with and modify stuff. Generally it's best to leave something stock, run the oil/filter the owner's manual recommends and don't try to re-engineer the thing. All the bypass filters, weird non API oils, and fancy air filters that don't do much filtering do more harm than good.

I've been told the CRD engine will last at least 500,000 miles if the following are routinely done - change oil every 5-6250K miles, air filter every 10,000, and fuel filter every 25,000 miles. Its all the other stuff you have to worry about it.

If I can get my engine to last thru two transmissions, I'll be happy.

Standard practice to idle a turbocharged vehicle prior to switching it off.

Obviously it is more needed in a highly tuned petrol engine but still important in a turbo diesel, though usually only relevant if the car has been driven under heavy load prior to being switched off.

Turbos will cook any oil inside the turbo if switched off without some cool down, other wise why would things such as turbo timers exist.

As car as bypass filtration goes it is used in heavy goods vehicles that run extended OCI and there is plenty of UOA based evidence out there to support the benefits of a bypass filter setup.

The biggest failure with the VM engine in the UK is bottom end failure and it is always caused by poor lubrication, either running the oil too long, running it low on oil or using cheap dino/ conventional oil which has no place in a highly stressed turbo diesel application.

It should be noted that the use of turbo diesel passenger vehicles for business and domestic use has been prevalent in the UK and Europe for the best part of twenty years if not slightly longer, apparently turbo diesel vehicles now account for nearly 50% of new car sales in the UK.

Before I retired I worked for a large NHS Ambulance Trust, we used to have petrol rapid response vehicles then moved over to turbo diesels.

The first lot were underpowered so got hammered really hard and then switched off when getting to scene.

Result?

Turbo failure every 20/30k.

Later ones were slightly more powerful and so you didn't have to hammer them as much, they were also fitted with a run lock system so you could leave the engine running on scene.

Result, hardly any turbo failures.

Well I'm at 123,000 on a 05 that needs a tb job, and a torque converter since I got the shudder

Now my future cousin-in-law has an 05 CRD with just about to turn over to 340,000 miles.

BUT the first motor lasted until 235,000 miles until he didn't realize that it had a timing belt not a chain (until he looked on here), on the original tb from factory with only the ehm and orm done to it, and two tranny rebuilds. He changes the oil every 10,000 miles with std purlotor filter and mobile 1 full sys. 5w-40 td oil

So he had a shop put a used 7x,xxx motor (about $7,000) in it and now that motors up to 102,000 miles, now he learned he has to do the tb and not wait. He does about 90% all highway miles for work he travels up to almost 250-300 miles a day

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8L 179,xxx mi. 2nd owner 8/2012
Daily Driver, full factory skids/hitch
GDE Hot Tune, GDE Trans Tune, ARP Studs, Timing Belt/Rockers done at 123,730
Weeks Intake, Samco hoses, 2nd gen fuel head, EHM, Fumoto 102, Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT-oil, M1-301, Inline 195 T-stat, GX3123 7V Steel
Jeep = Just Empty Every Pocket

Why did he install a used motor? What happened to the original?

_________________
Mike Rausch
Bear, Delaware
2006 Liberty Sport CRD 253K

Erm, the timing belt broke.

Since this is a Jeep CRD forum, we have discussed the short coming of Chrysler's Engineering in adapting the 2.8L VM engine to our KJs. With all full intention of insulting Chrysler's Engineering, I have frequently referred to it a Bean Counter Engineering where the Picocent is more important than the Megabuck. Since I work in Field Service, I am one of the people who gets to correct bad Engineering on a regular basis, often caused by the Over Paid Consulting Engineering Firms who screw up.
Add to the Bean Counter Engineering, you have Bean Counters who run fleets such as the fleets of LDV Maxie taxis. Since Bean Counter Engineering is a common mental disorder, we can assume LDV has/had their share along with the Chinese company that bought them out and most likely will cut corners even more. Common Bean Counter Engineering decisions are to cheat on cooling capacity and judging by the size of the grill on LDV taxis, that is one suspect item, I am sure a tech who works on them would provide a long list of LDV Engineering shortcomings for a beer in a pub. Now the Fleet managers who are so tight that if they were to swallow a lump of coal, a diamond would come out the other end. Again, buy a tech a beer and you will get a list of fleet maintenance related crap that would fill requirements to write a PHD thesis.
With all the 2.5L CRD engines running fine in KJs in Europe, the problems associated with LDV taxis have little correlation. With out an argument from one who owns and maintains their own LDV 2.5L VM powered LDV taxi, the Google/eBay fodder is as use full as an Emotional Political Argument we are being bashed with every day on the News in the US.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Well this was about 2 years ago when this happened but he still has the original motor sitting in his barn.

Idk why he installed a used motor my guess is I don't think he knew that all he needed was the tb kit and 16 new rockers and lifters. Unless he cracked a piston and scratched the cylinder but even that's not that bad there replaceable. Well i guess when i talk to him again ill have to ask him why didn't he rebuild his original.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8L 179,xxx mi. 2nd owner 8/2012
Daily Driver, full factory skids/hitch
GDE Hot Tune, GDE Trans Tune, ARP Studs, Timing Belt/Rockers done at 123,730
Weeks Intake, Samco hoses, 2nd gen fuel head, EHM, Fumoto 102, Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT-oil, M1-301, Inline 195 T-stat, GX3123 7V Steel
Jeep = Just Empty Every Pocket

You haven't really understood my post fully, if in fact you read it fully as there is no such thing as an LDV Maxie Taxi.

LDV closed down two years ago after the banks pulled the plug due to the banking crisis.

The LDV Maxus is/was a commercial vehicle, van, minibus or chassis cab.

It was/is fitted with the smaller 2.5 CRD VM engine.

The London Taxi Company makes the TX4 also with the 2.5 CRD VM engine.

The 2.8 CRD engine is still fitted to the UK model Chrysler Voyager minivan.

The later 2.5 and 2.8 are the same apart from cubic capacity, they certainly have the same cambelt kit, oil and fuel filters. Air filters are different.


I do indeed, with a mate, run a small fleet of London Taxis with the 2.5 CRD VM engine.

There are repeated issues with bottom end failure due to lubrication failure, a lot of the larger fleets and owner drivers appear to skimp on maintenance or at least oil quality. Things like running semi synth for 10k in Taxi service, not a good idea IMHO.

My information regarding oil specifications is not from a bean counter or accountant.

I have not found them on Google or similar.

What I did do was in the interests of protecting an investment and safe guarding profitability.

Was to email VM directly, actually my business partner emailed them, and the specs they emailed me are the same as those mentioned in the handbook for the vehicle.

I think you are more than little bit paranoid as car as to what Bean Counter's are alledged to be up to.

From my research the oil specs required for the 2.5 and 2.8 are the same.

Since my Taxi does the best part of 50k miles a year I suspect any data that I gain will be relevant to anybody with a vehicle that is powered by the VM 2.5 and 2.8 engine.

All data and maintenance info that proves beneficial will be used to maintain the Cherokee/Liberty that I intend to own in the near future.

Ask if he wants to sell the core. I'm not that far away and I will come and pick it up.

_________________
Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

I can't remember if you were posting in one of the other threads or not - what is your HG failure symptom? Losing coolant?

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD
GDE Eco Tune Full Torque, GDE TCM Tune, Firestone Destination LE 225/75-16

Reade my signature and read my past posts as to how I undid the Bean Counter Engineering on my KJ. To get rid of the soot that clogs up the oil passageways to the lower end, rockers, and turbo, bypass filtration using a fine filter or Centrifuge would remove a lot of the soot.Also I use the Amsoil filter that offers finer filtration than the crap one gets from Dealers or Auto Pats Stores.
I am not versed in the specific models of a company like LDV, or care since I will never be around one in the US, but you need to look into the why your lower ends have failed. Coolant temperatures, oil temperatures, and oil breakdown can be factors. Design of the vehicle and air flow through the radiator can be the major cause of your problems. With the US KJ, there was a cheap fan clutch that was inadequate and caused over heating on several members KJs. Replacing the stock fan clutch with a Hayden Severe Duty Fan Clutch and the 11 blade plastic fan solved the problems. Since the engine oil cools the piston bottoms and the turbo, all that heat from the oil goes into the cooling system. When the cooling system gets too hot, so does the oil and then you can kiss your lower end good by.
I wish you the best of luck in solving your issues with your fleet of 2, one LDV taxi and one Chrysler Voyager. Perhaps if you are in Savanna, Georgia some time you can connect with geordi and discuss at length your engine failure analysis.

Your beloved LDV has been reincarnated with the same 2.5L VM engine: http://chinaautoweb.com/2010/08/saic-to ... ldv-maxus/ Coming to a UK Showroom near you.

Cheers

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Not necessarilary idle, but rather take the load off. Adequate cooling is usually achieved by pulling off the highway and operating at a greatly reduced load for a couple of minutes before parking. It takes me about 3 minutes to drive up my driveway at 15-20 mph, essentially no load, unless I'm pulling something that's plenty of cool down to shut the engine off.



They don't exist as stock from the factory. They're aftermarket accessories, if they were really needed they'd come on them from the factory. I'm always leary of aftermarket parts, they rarely do what their makers claim and almost never increase reliability.



Bypass filter systems are not inherently bad. The problem with most of them is that as aftermarket systems they're poorly engineered. You often hear of leaks out of them causing bearing oil starvation. Unless it's a quality system built by a company I trust then I'm not putting it on my vehicle. Here in the U.S. everyone and their dog sells a miracle part that claims to do everything including cure cancer. Most of them are shysters looking for a quick buck, I don't want their junk on my jeep. Oil changes are relatively cheap and easy to do, unless someone can prove to me that the stock system is deficient then I don't want to mess with the oiling system, more harm than good can come from it.



We've been using turbo diesels in OTR trucks since the '60's, they're not exactly a new science over here either. Our tougher emissions regulations in light cars have kept their use to a minimum here, but that doesn't mean we don't understand how they work.

Some of the biggest users of small turbo diesel engines in the U.S. are UPS and Fedex. Their delivery trucks are virtually all turbo diesel and if you ever watch them they never leave them idling, in fact it's against their company policy. If you watch one pull into your driveway you'll note that they shut the engine off as soon as they come to a stop. If their engines really needed extra cool down time to prevent failure then you can bet they'd be doing it, but they're not.

It Started with loosing coolant, with pressure buildup in the coolant tank.

After a while, I started to notice a coolant smell from the exhaust. I verified it is a combustion leak with the combustion leak test kit.

It still didn't seem like I was loosing a lot of coolant, but just a few days ago I checked oil level and it is way high, so now coolant is now getting into the oil. Needless to say, I'm not driving it now, getting quotes on the repair job, and trying to decide where to take it to get it done.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD
126k miles
Average 23.9MPG
GDE Hot Tune
GDE Transmission Towing Tune
Suncoast Torque Converter
Transgo Shift Kit
Muffler Delete
Stant 195 inline t-stat

I question if the GDE Hot Tune could be placing too much stress on the motor to effectively cook the head. A good question would be, how many CRD's with head gasket failures ran with the GDE Hot Tune? We don't hear about head gasket failures in Europe.

I can see your point GaryC.

And thanks for posting such concise answers.

I agree that idling is not the only way to cool a turbo down.

I only leave it running if I pull into a service to fuel up after a long high speed run.

If I have a long speed run then pull of to park or similar then The time spent at low speed Nd load will be more than enough to cool the turbo.

But I don't agree that turbodiesels in passenger vehicles are the same as in small commercial vehicles.

Even if you just consider Mercedes for a minute, they out the 2.2 engine in Sprinters, Vitos and the C and E Class.

But the Sprinter and Vito are tuned for pulling power rather than outright performance.

I think this may well be to reduce stress on the engine and turbo.

The 100bhp 2.0 DTi engine I mentioned that cooked its turbos all the time was run ing at the top end of its comfort zone all the time.

The EU emissions are fairly strict though, not sure how they relate to US specs however.

But all but a miniscule number of Taxis are diesel, the others being diesels converted to spark and then converted to LPG.

It diesel cars are now pretty much the norm for most family vehicles, which I think is the big difference between the UK and the US, the rest of Europe has been using diesel cars in huge numbers for years, the French government subsidised the PSA group to engineer better Diesel engines for its cars in the 80'a and the XUD engine was the result.

Thought the main reason for use of diesel is not due to emissions in Europe it is to do with fuel cost and consumption.

The funny thing is now the EU car makers are edging slowly to downsizing capacity in petrol vehicles with a turbo to make up the difference.

At the same time as the domestic market in the US is looking a little bit more at diesels.

The new Focus in Europe is available with a 1.0 Ecoboost engine now which is faster and more economical than the 1.6 it replaced for example, tuned for flexibility though, not performance.

I agree with you on turbo timers, they aren't always factory fitted, but very common in performance vehicles, most likely to make up for user abuse.

I will admit that I never really allow much cooling down time unless I own the vehicle.