This is why we change our belts at or before 100k

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:55 pm

Ok I am going to move my jeep story from the other thread, Long story short I bought a jeep CRD with a miss I think most of you have seen me asking questions about timing under the "smoke and rattle" thread so I'm not going to repeat all that again. I stuck a small screw driver in each cam hole to see that everything was lining up then took a look at the crank. To me it looks pretty much where it should be, which really made my heart sink but I wanted to get in there and check for myself as I know I had some blow by coming from out of the intake as I said earlier, so I wasn't sure if it jumped time then jumped back as I remember hearing from someone on the forum but I don't remember who. Anyways I got in there and holy cow I could not believe how sad this belt was, I did not find any missing teeth but as you can see the belt started to come apart on its self. This one looks much worse than the one I just removed on my blue one which had about 5k more. So I guess the moral of the story is just because Bob got 120k on his without a problem doesn't mean you will to, and winter time is harder on belts anyways. Again this is a belt out of a jeep with 105,000. Tomorrow I'll finish taking the top of the head off and have a look at those rockers, if I don't get back on it tonight.

kjjet · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:18 pm

Glad i could point you in the right direcion. I'm sure you saw my reply. It wont be so bad. Just like any other project it takes time and money. Take your time and do it right.

FYI...you going to finish getting that A&P?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:22 pm

Yow, that thing looks terrible! Of all the timing belts I've seen / done... That is by far the worst. The rest all have looked a 'little' worn, but not bad at all compared against the new one. That belt could easily have been excessively stretched. Maybe there is something to Sam's suspicion that the crank can jump time forward (from combustion pressure) and hit the valves - trash the rockers, and force itself back into time after causing the mayhem.

We will know more after you get the top off, but it certainly answered the question of whether you had to take the cover off or not. Yup, you gotta. Bummer that you didn't find the answer, but with a belt that raggy... Be glad you are looking now, and not on the side of the road!

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:03 pm

As bad as that belt looks @ 105k, I would examine every idler and the water pump closely - suspecting that something was dragging on the top side of the belt in an unnatural fashion...

Good luck with your project!

Mark

kjjet · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:19 pm

msilbernagel wrote:

As bad as that belt looks @ 105k, I would examine every idler and the water pump closely - suspecting that something was dragging on the top side of the belt in an unnatural fashion...

Good luck with your project!

Mark

I'm placing my bet on worn rockers, to the point the cam lobe was hitting the sides of the rocker and was stressing the belt. Untill the rocker broke.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:01 pm

I plan on replacing all rockers, lifters, and all things Timing Belt and water pump. I was also wondering since I have this jeep very nicely apart I'll post a pic of the poor jeep as of now, if it would make good sense to replace the glow plugs. I was looking at the steal ones but seems you need to change something else along with the glow plug is that true? Thanks again and I'll try and post some more pics here is a few

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 pm

just thought I'd post a couple of photos of my jeep, I removed the hood because the little gas shocks are weak, I will replace them but one thing at a time and honestly 4 bolts and look at the room I have now haha.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:12 am

That A/C line can become a nuisance - I used a bungee cord to pull it up and out of the way.

Mark

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:17 am

Dang, you work fast! After talking to you today, I thought it was going to take you a while to get the timing cover off... Here you are, all set to pull the inner cover and go to town on the top! At this rate, you'll have the valve cover off before lunch tomorrow!

Good luck... And I'm amazed at how much extra disassembly you did - I didn't pull the radiator or the front end on mine, did it all right over the top. You are a brave man.

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:09 am

I have done the job both ways, 1st time i removed the FNT end, 2nd time went over the top. What ever works for you.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

After you pull the intake and see the damage, give us a call. We have a couple new manifolds and cams along with some rockers. Might be able to get you back on the road for a little less $$.

The belt wear is very bad, I have not seen one that worn before. The loads on your belt point to something wrong in the overhead valvetrain. GDE

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:15 pm

Keith, since he had the engine running (ostensibly with already damaged rockers) is it possible that the belt damage was caused by the few minutes it took to move the CRD into his garage? He said it was up a reasonable hill, but he had to do it twice b/c the first time he went up the wrong way. I'm figuring maybe about 5 solid minutes with it running and --really-- unhappy engine sounds. Don't know how long the engine was run by the previous owner.

To me, looking at the edge wear like that, I would have said it was an idler pulley bearing (or worse, water or fuel pump bearing) that threw the pulley out of alignment and ate the edge... Certainly you (John) need to check ALL the pulleys for any play / grease ejection / non-smooth rotation, and replace as indicated. Something is rotten in there somewhere.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:26 pm

Yeah I hated to run her more than I had to but honestly she only ran for me about 2 minutes, I tried not to doddle to much when moving it around. I plan to just get the full TB kit from our friends at IDparts, and just replace everything in there. I did have one other question to ask everyone, if the Harmonic Balancer is bad can you tell by looking/ holding? I shook it and I thought I heard something thump just ever so slightly. Thanks.
and Kjjet thanks for the info and I promise to reply back to you this evening. Thanks again.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Alright guys the moment of truth is upon us...... Rockers are.... Just fine ... son of a ... CRap CRap Crap. So back to the drawing board... I guess until I go down every avenue I still can't believe its a rod bearing issue but I'll recap real fast what went on the last time she ran. Engine was hard to start the first time but the second and third time (third time was only for a few sec. for the dollar bill test) she seemed to fire right up like my blue jeep. Again I seemed to have a popping coming from the intake and what seemed to me as a miss as the engine seemed to chug chug chug when running, again a rod bearing would just knock and the engine would run fine till it let go. The engine was very low on power and almost couldn't move under her own power. Smoke was black but did not seem to be pitch black no blue or white. Could I have a burnt valve? or could the belt have stretched enough to cause the whole engine to be slightly out of time but not enough to do damage? could the Injector pump have slipped and be out of time? What else can you guys think of that I can check. I'm thinking at this point to take the head off and inspect the valves themselves but I'm going to hold off until I get some feed back. BTW 1.5 hours to remove, not nearly as hard as I thought It would be. thanks again.

I don't drink often but I think this is as good as any a time to start :5SHOTS:

jk

... I don't guess the Fuel filter could be so clogged or have some bad fuel that would cause it to run like it did, I guess I should have probably asked this BEFORE tearing the engine apart haha.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:08 pm

just a few pics enjoy...

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:35 pm

HEy guys, I couldn't stop poking at this poor jeep, I went back down and just stared at it for a few studying every rocker then I noticed and you can see in the the photo I posted that on the #4 Cyl. both the intake and exhaust ports are totally covered in an oily residue but the other 3 Cyl. seem to be nice and dry any thoughts on this? I'm drawing a blank here.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:37 pm

correction they are both intake right the exhaust ports would be on the side of the head I think

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:00 pm

WOW...i would have lost alot of $$$ on that bet. I'm at a loss to. I dont think its a fuel filter issue. That wont cause popping out the intake. Its for sure missfiring. Being black soot, that cylinder is prob not firing.

1. I would press down on each valve, to see if any feel different.
2. You can check to see if each cyl has compression. With a rubber glove place finger in one of the injector holes, trying to block it. Turn the engine over and compression should blow past your finger. Try all and see if there is a weak one or two.

Good luck

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:15 pm

saabflyer89 wrote:

correction they are both intake right the exhaust ports would be on the side of the head I think

Correct...you are looking at all the intake ports. Exhaust goes to the turbo side.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:44 pm

Is there any play at all in the rollers? there should be zero play in them.....see this thread for pictures of partially collapsed rollers:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62278

This is why we change our belts at or before 100k

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