This is why we change our belts at or before 100k

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:52 am

Dammit, I hate being right like this. Now I feel bad about the tools, b/c they aren't going to be much help to you for a good long time.

Unfortunately, the top of your engine looks almost exactly like mine did. While I didn't try to actively move my jeep while the rod bearing was failing, I did try to get it above idle (blip the throttle in gear) and it didn't want to at all. On mine, the #3 was the wet cylinder... #4 was the rod that jammed a hole in the side where the EGR had recently been mounted. But I don't know if that really mattered at all in the scheme of things. I pulled the whole HEAD before it imploded, and couldn't find diddly, so I doubt you will find much of anything either.

Got a hoist or a strong rafter above that engine bay? Time to start thinking of ways to support that 500 pound brick and lever it out of there. I'd say you are about to be arse-deep in this thing, pulling the engine and having a shuffle at the bottom end. The only advantages to doing it now - NOTHING HAS PUNCHED THE BLOCK YET. This is a big one however, because you can rebuild what hasn't been broken, and from what I understand, VM Specialist may have just about everything you might need. Repairing the bottom end also might be a lot easier because of the "tunnel" design of this block - Once the oil pan is off, it *should* be capable of being worked on without too much more disassembly. Whether you can get the pan off without removing the whole engine from the body... Is a good question that I can't answer. The tunnel design is supposed to allow the crank to be replaced while in the vehicle, but maybe nobody told Chrysler that little tidbit.

As far as a compression test, I doubt that will tell you much of anything. If you fancy a go at it anyway, DO NOT USE THE STARTER (too dangerous!) just use shop air and a rubber-tipped blowgun. Put it into the injector hole and hold it down, and push the button. Fair warning: You WILL need to rotate each cylinder to 90 degrees ATDC and use a socket wrench on the front to hold it against the frame - The crank WILL ROTATE with the pressure of the 100 psi shop air.

I actually built a compression test rig using a pressure gauge and valve with the rubber tip - That way I could do a quick "leak down" test on each cylinder. FYI: None of the valves showed any significant flaws, and the $60 I paid to a head shop confirmed that. They did a vacuum test on each valve, said that their gauge read 'good' from 5-6... Each of my valves pegged the needle at 8. Combustion backfire loss into the intake also wouldn't be a ping or tap... It would be a deafening bang with fireball. I doubt you have that either. Don't forget, I thought mine sounded like a misfire and possible injector failing. The injectors also all checked out within spec.

Here is my engine, with its own suicide imminent: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5447172/jeep-engine.mov

Sound anything like yours?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Did you ever measure the injector backflow prior to teardown? The wet intake on #4 could indicate a sticking injector. I would also recommend pulling off each rocker to check play in each roller. Measure the valve stem height to ensure no bent valves.

You can use a hoist to lift engine off mounts in the vehicle as high as it will go and then pull the oil sump, dipstick, and balance shafts to expose the rod bearings. With the engine lifted a bit, the oil pan/structure can clear the front differential. These 2 hours to check the bottom end are worthwhile for peace of mind.

There is a proceedure for the balance shafts and you need a steel rod (6 inches, ~3/16 in diameter) and pin the shafts together with crank in certain position. Feel free to call if you go this route.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:32 pm

Good morning all,

Well I got covered in white stuff last night which is always fun, the jeep did great even with some really bad tires, a little common :2cents:

lol and taking my time Jewely (the blue jeep) never slipped once, got to love jeep in fact I saw more jeeps last night than i have in awhile lol non were on the side of the road. Well back to the black jeep... I watched the video thanks big man from Savannah and sorry to say my engine doesn't sound like this at all. She was missing and chugging pretty bad but not really knocking. I will go down in a few and get started at looking at those rockers again, let us pray lol I'll keep everyone updated. Again i still don't think its bottom end all pistons are moving as they should and a rod bearing wouldn't cause such a miss. Your engine was perring right a long with that rod banging away mine almost wouldn't run she ran so poorly. but as they say time will tell lol. thanks again for all the help

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:53 pm

Good to know it CAN be done in the vehicle Keith. John, I wouldn't waste the 3+ hours to pull the head just yet, I have serious doubts that your problem is on the top, even with the differences in how it was running. I didn't video the sounds right before it actually died, but it was running like complete crap. That video was before maybe the second time I had pulled the head.

Checking the injector performance is not a bad idea, I had mine worked over by a local Bosch shop. I'm sure there is one near you if you want to try this route. For me, they checked every parameter of each one and they (sadly) all checked out. No explanation for the wet intake cylinder. That was about $120 or so, and at least you would have the sheet to prove them good or bad. Write down all the numbers (there is an individual 6-digit letter/number code on each one) for each injector's original position, so they can be returned to the proper order. It does matter to the computer.

Theory: Maybe the wet cylinder is a reaction to the imbalance in the rods / crank rotation speed? The bad cylinder is not capable of applying the proper power stroke (yet is still capable of some combustion, hence the banging and dry cylinder) but the next one in the cycle (or the one before) is wet because that same power stroke on the bad one throws off the crank speed and the fuel is injected too late to combust properly... Leading to wet cylinder...? I don't know, but with the similarities so far, I really don't see this as the top end. Sorry John.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:00 pm

Ok finally some good news, upon further investigation of the rockers I have found 2 on the same cylinder that the roller in the middle is very loose and looks like it was pressed down. As they were sitting there you could see these two stand out like a sore thumb so I guess we were right after all. I will order a new set of 16 and get this thing back together. then we will see if there is further problems. Thanks again for any and all input and Sir Sam thanks so much for that last little bit of info thats just what I needed thank you so much. I'll see if I can get some photos on here in a few

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:52 pm

Just curious which ones. The picture makes me wonder about the following counting from the front:
Left side - 4, 7 and maybe 8
Right side - 6 and 8
I did enhance the picture a bit in Photoshop and those rollers look like they are sitting low.

Glad to hear you are doing the full set. Given the $s and time involved once you are in that far and and find any bad ones it's a waste not to do them all.

If you haven't already thought about it while you have everything appart might as well clean the crud out of the intake.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:54 pm

This sounds stupid, but is it possible that someone could have reversed two of the injector plugs? That could really TARFU things up, and could explain a wet cylinder.....

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:29 pm

saabflyer89 wrote:

Ok finally some good news, upon further investigation of the rockers I have found 2 on the same cylinder that the roller in the middle is very loose and looks like it was pressed down. As they were sitting there you could see these two stand out like a sore thumb so I guess we were right after all. I will order a new set of 16 and get this thing back together. then we will see if there is further problems. Thanks again for any and all input and Sir Sam thanks so much for that last little bit of info thats just what I needed thank you so much. I'll see if I can get some photos on here in a few

Were the bad ones on the exhaust side? Any damage to the cam Lobs? Wipe off the oil, It may be slight.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:13 pm

Hi guys, I did run a rag over the cams to inspect and I didn't see any real damage but yes I do plan to clean all the crap out of if. I also am thinking of painting the intake red to match the hoses hahaha but I don't know we will see. I always like color in my engine bay. Seemed like the worst of the damage was on the exhaust side of things. Papaindigo I can't believe you took the time to enlarge the photo, I could have sent you a much better photo, the forum kinda downsizes them. I'll keep everyone posted and if anyone has any ideas for a good place to buy the o-ring for the injectors please let me know. Thanks again to everyone.

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:40 pm

If you remove the cams from the intake, you can clean much better. With the cams in you have to watch not to spray the cams and remove all the oil where they ride. It dose not have cam bushings. If you choise to remove:

1. Remove the plugs in the back.
2. Remove the seals on the FNT of the cams.
3. Remove the snap ring and washer.
4. Slide the cams aft.

Note: IF you have a newer cam the washer is not used. New plugs and seals are required.

Good luck.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:07 am

Thanks for the info, Do you know where i can get the new caps and seals for the cams? also do you have any idea what size the copper o-ring is on the tip of the injector? I found 2 at idparts but all they give are the sizes, they don't specifically say injector o-ring. I did find the rubber ones which were listed as such but not for the copper ones. If I can get the new parts for the cams then I'd love to take them out give them a good cleaning and then clean the intake till she looked like new then comes the paint :pepper:

I guess I'll be waiting about a week or so for the new rockers to come in, in the mean time I did order a butt load of new parts from idparts including a brand new set of stainless steel glow plugs. I figured that since I think I will probably keep this jeep and sell my blue one I wanted to be extra sure this thing will be ready to go for a while and since they are a big pain to get to with everything complete I figured now is the best time to replace them. I've read that one needs to be extra careful upon removal of the GP as they tend to break apart any tricks you have I'm totally open. One more thing I know there are several people here on the east coast with CRDs I was thinking about putting together some kind of spring meet or something, maybe even a weekend trial ride (something simple as i dont think most of us have our CRD's jacked way up) and camping trip or something any ideas please feel free to throw them out there, heck even just a big cook out would be nice. I'm also going to guess (back to the GP) that if I do a GDE tune that should take care of the required reflash of the ECU for use with 5v GPs am i right on this? Thanks

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:08 am

If you have collapsed rollers then you will also have some metal fragments running around in the engine. Drain the oil and then flush the top side with lighter fluid, lots of lighter fluid, rinse the inside of the valve cover too. Then use a cheap filter and oil for the first hundred miles or so. Stick the strongest magnet you can find on the drain plug and oil filter, then change the oil.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:04 am

Your local Bosch shop will have both the o-ring and the copper crush washers. They will probably just GIVE them to you, but they are only a couple bucks each.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:46 am

Even dealer prices on the injector crush washers and o rings are pretty cheap. Just a reminder make sure you keep the same order on the injectors. If you go with the OEM 5v glow plugs you will need an ECU flash by dealer or if you go GDE just tell Keith to include the 5v flash which IIRC he will do at not added cost for the initial flash.

Ceramic glow plug removal (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56696&p=630729&hilit=glow+removal#p630729 and viewtopic.php?f=98&t=70159) isn't too difficult. From what I've seen they shouldn't be easy to break during removal unless you whack them pretty hard.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:15 am

I dont recall the P/NS. What i do is to call jeep for cost and they will give you the P/N also. Then look online.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:34 pm

I was thinking about what else I could do to the jeep while its in the shop and I was thinking of adding a boost gauge and maybe an exhaust temp gauge as well. Anyone ever put a pyro gauge on their jeep? Thanks

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:44 am

See the GDE writeup on their Stage II turbo for where they install the pyro fitting.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:38 pm

Hey I just found a cheaper way to work on my Jeep. OUTSOURCING!!! Everyone's doing it. Just send it to the Chinese hahaha. :ROTFL:

I'm just kidding she has been taking photos of me everyday and showing her friends back in China and everyone has made bets as to whether or not I can put it back so I guess this is payback haha.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:28 am

She's pretty, and probably the one thing keeping you sane while arguing with these Italian mistresses. Does she know that she almost has her hands around the vital bits of the wench that steals your time from her, and empties your wallet? :ROTFL:

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:19 pm

Hi everyone GREAT NEWS!!!! I got the jeep back together enough to fire her up, and after a few cranks she fired right up. She ran nice and smooth without any other noises or sounds. I'll get the rest of everything put back together tomorrow morning and I should be driving her tomorrow afternoon I hope. Thanks again for all your help and after about a week or so of driving this jeep around I'll be putting my other jeep up for sale so if anyone is looking for a nice 2006 Limited Libby with 110,000 miles and a very fresh TB and map sensor please feel free to let me know. Thanks again to all.

This is why we change our belts at or before 100k

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