VM.1085 (Yes, Again)

Hexus · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:19 pm

If anyone has a VM.1085 they'd be willing to part with for a reasonable price, please let me know.

I'm going to borrow one from a dealership, but I'd really just rather own one.

Maybe Geordi if he's really giving up on them, or someone has one laying around they aren't going to use. I just can't see paying $700+ for one, I honestly can't.

So here's hoping, fingers crossed!

Thanks Folks!

TJ2 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:59 am

Best wishes in your search. You want what every other member here wants. A VM 1085 for cheap. You may get lucky; that's what it will take.

Gokeeper · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:29 am

I am not quite ready to give up my VM. 1085 However have a great relationship with a local CNC machine shop that we do a lot of business with at work. My plan is to have it reverse engineered and see what the cost would be to make a few. Unfortunately my timing tools currently being rented out and have been for the last few months, with seemingly no end in sight. Currently 3 others on the waiting list. If and when it slows down I will at least see what they can do as far as making a few. I know this doesn't help anyone now but something to look forward too maybe.

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:41 pm

Well, if $400 is cheap, then so be it.

I'm offering $400 for a VM.1085 if anyone wants to get rid of it.

I'm sure that's probably more than you paid for it if you've had one for a while, less than 9 months ago they sold for $220 each.

If I'm cheap, then I'm cheap, but someone probably stands to make some $ from this arrangement.

saabflyer89 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:54 pm

Watch Ebay a few months back (October I think) there was a used one which sold for only 190

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:54 pm

Wow, the prices have shot up I guess... I got the entire set of 4 cases of Miller special tools for less than $700.

When I get mine back from the rental they are on, there is a CNC shop in Savannah that might be able to make a laser scan and copy for us. I'm not sure what their scan fee would be, or the aluminum duplication costs... But I will investigate and let the group know.

Hexus, if they can do it for less than your offer, I will contact you and discuss. Once they have a scan in the computer, they can run off replicas at any time or batch amount.

06PeakBagger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:23 pm

I would be interested in buying one if they can be made.. let me know via PM

geordi wrote:

Wow, the prices have shot up I guess... I got the entire set of 4 cases of Miller special tools for less than $700.

When I get mine back from the rental they are on, there is a CNC shop in Savannah that might be able to make a laser scan and copy for us. I'm not sure what their scan fee would be, or the aluminum duplication costs... But I will investigate and let the group know.

Hexus, if they can do it for less than your offer, I will contact you and discuss. Once they have a scan in the computer, they can run off replicas at any time or batch amount.

bigjl · **Joined:** Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:38 pm **Posts:** 50

Is it legal in the US to make a copy of a tool like that?

Might it not be easier to try and find a European supplier of this tool.

I can't see them costing that much in Europe.

Is this a case of tool retailers in the US profiteering as small diesels like the VM are still relatively rare?

bigjl · **Joined:** Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:38 pm **Posts:** 50

Found this after a quick Google.

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/items/pdf/P ... ctions.pdf

Not exactly the same tool, but for the 2.5 and 2.8 engine.

It states the typical price is around £110. Then you have to follow a link to an online Laser Tools retailer for exact pricing.

Might be worth a try.

That VM 1085 is way overpriced.

Also found this

http://www.eurocarparts.com/mobile/ecp/ ... 5&0&t5_451

This kit covers models with and without the balance shaft.

You might be able to contact EuroCarParts by email or phone and ask if they will ship to the US or send it to a family member in the UK for onward posting.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:45 am

bigjl wrote:

Might it not be easier to try and find a European supplier of this tool.

I can't see them costing that much in Europe.

Is this a case of tool retailers in the US profiteering as small diesels like the VM are still relatively rare?

I came to the conclusion that this tool wasn't available in Europe and was something that was designed and manufactured specially for the North American market where the suckers are prepared to pay big bucks for "special" tools. In Europe they are probably :-)r

at us while they use their cheap universal tool http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/info_AST4394.html.

I don't think it's a case of profiteering rather an economy of scale that represents the real cost of designing and manufacturing in small quantities.

skates04 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:56 pm

Alternative to the VM1085 were discussed a few weeks ago

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72959

Everything from other fancy tools that are cheaper than the VM1085 to Hardwood.

I also thought I had read something about using a tool they use on the TDI cam gears

bigjl · **Joined:** Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:38 pm **Posts:** 50

The tools I have linked to are specific to the VM 2.5/2.8 engine.

Don't forget that this engine is an awful lot more common than in the US. It wasn't just fitted to a Jeep for two years.

It is fitted in both one or the other size in the Chrysler Voyager and Grand Voyager since 2001/02 and in fact still is.

The Maxus van, London Taxi (still is), Jeep Cherokee in 2.5 (since 2002) and 2.8.

There are lots out there and the belt interval is a lot shorter in the UK from what I have read, was 70k on my Taxi, now 84k.

It isn't a case of laughing at anybody.

If you want to pay $700 for a tool has been developed to make it a little easier to do the job then there is nothing wrong with that.

The tools linked to are proper trade tools. Not wooden dowels or drill bits.

If anyone has the skill to get a CRD liberty/Cherokee stripped down to the extent needed to do the cambelt then I don't think they need much help when it comes to spannering.

Will have a read of the link though, thanks.

bigjl · **Joined:** Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:38 pm **Posts:** 50

Dirtmover, had a look at that tool, it isn't the kind of tool that would be used in the UK.

Suggest you have a look at the LaserTools website as there is a PDF file of how to use their specific tool. Along with VM equivalent tool numbers.

Perhaps I should said I am from the US then perhaps people would click on my links prior to replying.

These are European designed and built engines, do you think there are no engineers in Europe.

Think about were most F1 teams are located and where a lot of WRC teams where located back in the heyday.

Good engineering solutions come from Europe.

Perhaps the tool might not come chrome plated with aircon and a built in coffee machine but they will do the job required of them.

Got to better than plagiarism or breach of copyright surely?

Here is a link that shows the Sealey tool and is slightly cheaper than EuroCarParts
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/index.php?opt ... edium=base

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:06 pm

bigjl wrote:

Dirtmover, had a look at that tool, it isn't the kind of tool that would be used in the UK.

Suggest you have a look at the LaserTools website as there is a PDF file of how to use their specific tool. Along with VM equivalent tool numbers.

Yes I'm familiar with the tools tools you linked to viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62094&p=687565#p687565

Here's a quote from the instructions:

"NB: When slackening the Camshaft pulley fixings please ensure an adequate pulley holding tool is used. The Camshaft holding pins are designed to hold the camshafts in their timed position and not withstand the torque of slackening/tightening the pulley fixings."

If you need to remove the pulleys you need a holding tool like the one I linked or the VM1085 or equivalent tool. Such a tool is not included in either the Sealy or Laser kits.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:08 pm

bigjl wrote:

Here is a link that shows the Sealey tool and is slightly cheaper than EuroCarParts
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/index.php?opt ... edium=base

none of the reasonable priced set have the VM1085 - That's the Cam gear lock
without it the alignment pins will shear.

a couple of folks have used the VW tool

the VM1085 was originally ~$200 by itself - now the cheapest Google can find is $680
if you can find closer to the original price in the UK - we would be interested.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:22 pm

If the Lisle tool fits, it looks to hold as tight as the VM tool. Amazon feedback is good except for Volvos. . . it doesn't fit them. Works great for Kia's and Honda CRV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyMeUsBZcoQ

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_fb ... cam%20tool

My experience consists of watching Sam do the job. . . and reading this board for almost 3 years. TonyCRD from Spain used to post that the tool isn't necessary at all. Anything to hold the gears while tightening is ok.

The entire process is demystified after the front is opened up. If the belt is 'off a tooth' it will most likely be between the injection pump and crank pulley. Using due care will prevent that.

I'll do the next belt myself even though I'll have to rent garage space. It's really not that big a deal.

arengant · **Posted:** Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:03 am

When I did mine I was glad I had the vm tool. You can easily get the cam gears slightly off from their original position so the intake and exhaust pins no longer seat fully BY HAND AT THE SAME TIME. It happened to me even with the VM 1085!

I don't know if it matters all that much.. 1/10 of a degree off maybe? But it was enough of a concern that I retorqued both cams a few times until I finally got them aligned so both holding pins could be turned in and out by hand (better even than before I started!)

I for one would only use a tool that LOCKS the gears, not one you just hold like the VW one.
:2cents:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:26 am

TJ2 wrote:

If the Lisle tool fits, it looks to hold as tight as the VM tool. Amazon feedback is good except for Volvos. . . it doesn't fit them. Works great for Kia's and Honda CRV.

I don't get this tool? I don't have an issue with it's ability to hold the sprockets rigidly but since the pins can only be spread in one dimension it's impossible to control the relative angle between the sprockets. Some of the other adjustable tools that have been posted look pretty weak i.e. something that has been designed to hold alignment rather than torquing a nut against.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:32 pm

I'm looking at the video again today and I don't get it either. It looks to clamp the two together, but won't allow removal together.

Still, IMHO the repeated checks Arengant made to assure EXACT timing don't require a $680 tool. I'm looking at fabricating something when the time comes in five or so years. If and when that occurs, I will time it EXACTLY the way Arengant did.

YM(will most certainly)V

arengant · **Posted:** Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:10 pm

TJ2 wrote:

I'm looking at the video again today and I don't get it either. It looks to clamp the two together, but won't allow removal together.

Still, IMHO the repeated checks Arengant made to assure EXACT timing don't require a $680 tool. I'm looking at fabricating something when the time comes in five or so years. If and when that occurs, I will time it EXACTLY the way Arengant did.

YM(will most certainly)V

You are correct, I would rather did what I did (because the VM tool wasn't 100% tight or maybe some other reason) than spend an additional $680. Luckily I rented my tools this time and the 1085 was included. another 120K till the next water pump...

VM.1085 (Yes, Again)

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