St..st..stutter

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:10 pm

Happened to me yesterday but not just a slight hesitation, it went on for about 3/4 mile. I had just entered a state highway and needed to get into the throttle a little more than I generally do to catch up with highway traffic. At 60 MPH I engaged the Cruise and took my foot off the throttle. The stutter started as soon as I did and continued, again, for about 3/4 mile. I watched the tac and it was steady at about 1900 and I was in OD. No codes. This occurred about 10 minutes after engine start but not the first trip of the day. Temp in the 60's

So refresh me, is this just CRD life, is it the ERG? I have had the most recent firmware download.

Thanks in advance.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:11 pm

This sounds like tranny stutter. Have you had all the updates done? You may be in for a torque converter.

marauderer · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:44 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

Happened to me yesterday but not just a slight hesitation, it went on for about 3/4 mile. I had just entered a state highway and needed to get into the throttle a little more than I generally do to catch up with highway traffic. At 60 MPH I engaged the Cruise and took my foot off the throttle. The stutter started as soon as I did and continued, again, for about 3/4 mile. I watched the tac and it was steady at about 1900 and I was in OD. No codes. This occurred about 10 minutes after engine start but not the first trip of the day. Temp in the 60's

So refresh me, is this just CRD life, is it the ERG? I have had the most recent firmware download.

Thanks in advance.

I am having a similar problem. It seems the positive lockup on the torque converter can't decide what to do and it starts cycling. I have found if I take my foot off the throttle completely and ease back into it it stops. Now this isn't a cure and it will be going back into the dealer for further work. But, I can't see letting it self destruct and take out the transmission also.

Inet_CRD · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:11 pm

I too have the same issue. It seems like it does it the first time you hit 55mph and it shifts into 5th with lockup and you get a mild shudder, almost like the fuel injection is pulsing between two different settings. It then progressively gets better during the trip, but never really goes away. I really have to wonder why after picking up a brand new 06' CRD this month, it would need to have ANY of the updates done? Shouldn't the Factory be the first place that TSB's get put into production???

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:23 pm

Inet_CRD wrote:

I really have to wonder why after picking up a brand new 06' CRD this month, it would need to have ANY of the updates done? Shouldn't the Factory be the first place that TSB's get put into production???

It likely had all of the updates at ship time but there could be a difference between that and the time you bought it.

I noticed this once before but it only lasted a moment. The situation was similar and it happened right after the last update about a week and a half ago. Well, I had hoped to get it in and rag on the dealer over the filters last week but schedule would not allow. It goes in for sure this week.

I STILL LOVE IT!!!!!! and my mileage has definately improved at about 22.5 mixed driving. I am itching for a trip to see if I can break the 30 MPG mark.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

Mine does the exact same thing, It seems to be happening less as I rack up the miles so I would run it a bit. What is wierd is it did not seem to do it with B-50 Bio in it, I don't think it is trans related at all. Seems to be EGR related. Reminds me of a car with an overactive EGR. Mine was built in Feb 06 i think and the dealer said there are no updates needed.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:48 pm

Mine was built in May '05, bought it in Sept '05, and dealer told me the same thing - no applicable TSB's, not once but on subsequent visits as well. :roll:

Best advice is to do a little checking on your own.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:15 pm

TDI4BY wrote:

Mine does the exact same thing, It seems to be happening less as I rack up the miles so I would run it a bit. What is wierd is it did not seem to do it with B-50 Bio in it, I don't think it is trans related at all. Seems to be EGR related. Reminds me of a car with an overactive EGR. Mine was built in Feb 06 i think and the dealer said there are no updates needed.

Crawl under the drivers side and check the transmission build dates to compare against the TSB's. My CRD was built in September or October but the build date on the transmission was August and it was in the affected batch on the filters.

I don't think there is a build date relation on the firmware update, just having the lastest version and I think that came out in early April or late March. I think the only way you could tell your firmware would be to plug it into an analyzer and read it.

Speaking of Bio-Diesel, I had just put 13.5 gallons of B-20 in the day before. The last time was pure Dino.

Inet_CRD · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 2:10 pm

Now that I have a few more miles on the CRD I am starting to think that the stutter issue on mine may be the EGR. The problem seems to happen not just in 5th gear, but also in other gears as well. Usually the stutter happens within the first few miles in the morning, when pulling out of our community, before getting to the high speed roads. After that point it only seems to happen in 5th gear. The more I read about how the EGR works, the more I suspect this is the issue. If it only flows exhaust into the intake during idle and low throttle, this matches when the problem happens on my CRD. I have also gotten the stutter when in 5th, left the throttle at the same (low) position and taken off the O/D. The engine revs up, but the stutter doesn't go away. I now have about 2000KM (1250 Miles) on my March 06' built CRD. The tranny was built on Jan 27, 06' so it 'should' be OK. I'm scheduled to have the 18-009-06 TSB done Monday, maybe that will correct things.

Does anyone else have similar issues? I'm thinking that this may be the first signs of EGR failure (perhaps it's getting sticky causing the stutter).

Guest · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 2:47 pm

I thought I did not have the studder, but now, after 8 months and 10,000 miles I know I have it, and it's getting worse and more frequent. I swear, if they can't figure this out in my 3/36 warranty period I'm done with american cars forever... Thought I was already done once with a Toyota and a Honda that ran perfect, but I dumped the Honda at only 18 months old to get this as a "one last chance" for the home team...

I want to tow a camper trailer next year and I don't want to get stranded on a breakdown with my family. Yeah, yeah, it's under warranty -- that doesn't help me when I'm 2 states from home with my wife, a 2 year old, a 4 year old, and 2 dogs, on the side of the interstate waiting to get wiped out by a semi because I got struck by the Chrysler transmission virus.

This problem is really starting to bug me, too bad I'm too broke to do anything about it...

groucho · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 7:42 pm

alljeep wrote:

I thought I did not have the studder, but now, after 8 months and 10,000 miles I know I have it, and it's getting worse and more frequent. I swear, if they can't figure this out in my 3/36 warranty period I'm done with american cars forever... Thought I was already done once with a Toyota and a Honda that ran perfect, but I dumped the Honda at only 18 months old to get this as a "one last chance" for the home team...

I want to tow a camper trailer next year and I don't want to get stranded on a breakdown with my family. Yeah, yeah, it's under warranty -- that doesn't help me when I'm 2 states from home with my wife, a 2 year old, a 4 year old, and 2 dogs, on the side of the interstate waiting to get wiped out by a semi because I got struck by the Chrysler transmission virus.

This problem is really starting to bug me, too bad I'm too broke to do anything about it...

I can well understand your frustration. I have an 06, it has had the latest flash and it still bucks and jumps. Also, if the cruise works correctly, the the foot throttle won't work or vice versa. I find it does better with stanadyne lubricity formula than without, so something peculiar is going on. It seemed more a fueling issue at first, like a bad throttle wire or bad ground on pump. It is at its worst with OD off. I am going to check the alternator wiring to see if any wiring from it is in the main loom. The Dodge Cummins had 2 years of production with torque convertor filp-flop and the cure is to isolate the alternator to the starter wire from the main loom. The alternator wire was bleeding excess voltage into the wire that runs from the throttle postion sensor/solenoid to the computer.

I would say that the CRD is not American by any means except that the final assy was in Ohio. The parent corporation is Daimler although in the US it is DaimlerChrysler. Since the Motori engine is not going to be used in newer models, I doubt seriously that DC will work out the problem since the Motori is history, at least for them. About the only recourse is a lemon law buyback, if you can get that where you live.

The engine is good, the transmission is adequate and fairly trouble free in other applications and the body itself, that is the overall package is excellent, except for the front suspension that cannot be lubed and the ball joints that collapse. But, they didn't take time to work out the bugs. Too expensive, I assume.

I've had excellent reliability from my last dozen or so vehicles, so this jeep episode is out of character. We've had 6 jeep vehicles prior to this and this is the first that has a serious problem.

Also, there are build kits for this tran that might be helpful but if it is a software problem, a trannie kit won't help much unless it comes with its own electronic controller that overrides the DC computer.

Jeep doesn't have anything that offers reasonable mileage, just this CRD, and it ain't nothin to brag about, considering what it could be with the Motori engine and a mated manual trans. And, there are folk with CRDs that don't have any problems, so there ya go.

In any case, the latest flash for 05 build date 06 models made my bucking worse. However, I can now feel the shifts which was not possible before the flash.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

For me fuel does make a difference, If I am running at least 50% Bio it does not do it at all. If I run regular diesel it stutters quite often, My CRD Hates burning dead dinosaurs.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 10:07 pm

There is a diode in the TransGo Kit, Marauder may beat me to it, but I hope to install the kit this weekend.
Another CRD owner in Sweden has installed this kit and stated that it fixed his issues with stutter. Too early
to tell, we need more installs of this kit and hopefully in a few days we will have two more to either confirm or
show a variety of issues going on.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I was going to wait for the warranty to be up but I don't want them touching this thing anyway. I will probably go for the kit too.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 11:05 pm

The following is partial copys of TSB's from the LX car forum. I had wondered about the water possibility since our trans seals the same as the NAG1 (W5A580 and some versions of 42RLE trans. When I had the filter TSB done for the filter replacement on the CRD the tech did the "RTV sealant fix" to my tranny just like they do for the NAG1 trans. The CRD had only been in a light rain once or twice before that was done, so maybe I didn't get much if any water in the tranny. I'm wondering if you guys are having water caused problems, because the trannys do not like water in the tranny fluid, as noted below anything above 0.05% is a problem. In some cars and Jeeps there is even a TSB for a shield to be placed above the dipstick seal on the tranny to keep the a/c from dripping on the offending seal area. One funny thing was the seal was replaced with new and improved seal, even that seal would leak and had to have the RTV put on the seal. This is even done to MB trannys from what I have been told.

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-04, DATED APRIL 27,
2004, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE
HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES UPDATES FOR THE REPAIR
PROCEDURES, PART NUMBERS, LABOR OPERATION TIMES AND A NOTE.
SUBJECT:
Shudder During Shifts
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves flushing the transmission and **replacing the transmission fill tube**.
MODELS:
2005 (LX) 300/Magnum
NOTE: **This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 42RLE transmission (Sales
Code DG6) built before August 29, 2004**.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Shudder felt during shifts. The shudder is most noticeable with partial application of torque
converter clutch in 3rd and 4th gear.
DIAGNOSIS:
1. Test drive the vehicle to verify the condition.
2. Visually inspect the Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) for water contamination (use
a service dipstick, Miller Special Tool 9336). ATF contaminated with water will have a
milky appearance but may not be readily apparent at lower concentration levels, 0.5%
water concentration will cause shift shudder. The visual inspection may not be
conclusive.3. Document result of the visual inspection on the repair order.
4. Perform the Repair Procedure if the shift quality test drive confirmed shift shudder
exists regardless of the outcome of the visual inspection.
NUMBER: 21-006-04 REV. A

There is also a TSB 21-011-05 dated April 23, 2005.

Models: 300/Magnum/Charger/Grand Cherokee (WK w/3.7L, LX w/ 5.7L, or LX AWD w/3.5L) equipped with a NAG1 (W5A580) transmission (sales code DGJ).

Model year: 2005

SUBJECT: NAG1 (W5A580) Transmission - Shudder When Torque Converter Clutch Engages

OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves thoroughly flushing the NAG1 (W5A580) transmission of any water contamination, replacing the transmission filter, and applying RTV sealant around the base of the transmission fill tube to prevent water intrusion past the fill tube seal.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: The customer may experience a transmission shudder when shifts occur. The shudder is most noticeable with partial application of the torque converter clutch in 3rd and 4th gear.

DIAGNOSIS: If the customer experiences the condition perform the Repair Procedure.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I don't think that would be me because it did it the first day I drove it. there was 300miles on it though...

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 1:55 am

TDI4BY wrote:

I don't think that would be me because it did it the first day I drove it. there was 300miles on it though...

YABUTT you're on the wet side! :wink:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 12:20 pm

I haven't sat down to do the math, but 0.5% can't be but a couple of oz's. So to start problem all one might need is a few minutes in the rain, depending on how much the seal leaks and how hard it's raining. We won't even think about creek fording.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri May 12, 2006 7:16 am

oldnavy wrote:

I haven't sat down to do the math, but 0.5% can't be but a couple of oz's. So to start problem all one might need is a few minutes in the rain, depending on how much the seal leaks and how hard it's raining. We won't even think about creek fording.

I asked specifically about the possibility of this on my last visit. Their eyes rolled, said it was a GC only issue. But of course, I don't have a transmission problem in their opinion.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri May 12, 2006 7:23 am

Got mine to do a new trick yesterday. Tried to back-up on a short steep hill, didn't wan't to go. Made a funky moaning sound, vehicle shook lightly and felt like the trans was slipping. Probably just imagining this too...

St..st..stutter

Who is online