CRD engine trouble post blizzard / slight seawater immersion

salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

I'm looking for a bit of troubleshooting advice on an 06 liberty CRD. Recent blizzard sent seawater down the street and resulted in water pooling up about 4-5 inches above the bottom of the doors for an hour or so. After the water receded, I started it up and it started fine. However, after 5 minutes or so it bogged down and died. Tried restarting several times with no success. I didn't notice any evidence of water in teh engine compartment. When I turn the key it sounds like it wants to turn over, but does not fire up, even after cycling the glow plugs. If I hold the ignition all the way over it "almost" sounds like it's going to fire up, but is shaking violently and never actually fires - when I release the key it immediately dies. A lot of black soot seems to be coming out of the exhaust as well.

Any advice / things to try?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Welcome to the forum.

Where are you located? We may have knowledgeable people around you who can help.

I am exhausted, but mt mind will be thinking about your problems... Unless I fall asleep.

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MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:35 pm

Pull the air filter and see if there are any signs of water, also try draining the fuel filter. It could have gotten into something electrical if those items check out. If the water got that high, anything is possible. When you do get it going, you may want to change the front/rear axle oils as well as the tranny fluid and transfer case fluid. They may have water in them from being submerged.

salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Welcome to the forum. Where are you located? We may have knowledgeable people around you who can help.

Thanks - I'm in the Boston area of MA. Someone actually captured a vid of the flooding - the CRD is the one with the tire on back at about 0:28 and 0:34 (turn your volume down - the audio is horrible).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q1Bv8P5d79E

"Pull the air filter and see if there are any signs of water, also try draining the fuel filter. It could have gotten into something electrical if those items check out. If the water got that high, anything is possible."

Did check the air filter - no moisture. I'll try the fuel filter and bleed the line tomorrow. The water didn't get too high (see vid above) - I'm not all that familiar with this engine, but could that have cause serious troubles? It was high enough for water / slush to get in the exhaust - what would be the consequences of that? Would it be worth trying to "reset" the computer, MAP, etc (sorry - been a while since I've tried tinkering with this one). Would disconnecting the battery for 5+ minutes accomplish this?

I'm also concerned that by starting it, I may have caused more trouble than if I left it and let it be for a while (e.g., electric problems, etc). Think that's possible? I've heard CRDs are actually decent for flood zones, with higher air intakes and all.

Appreciate the feedback.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Well, I am from Tiverton. STRIPERMAN36 is from Mansfield. So you have support in the area

I am thinking Crank Position Sensor. The water may have gotten up that far.

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salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Well, I am from Tiverton. STRIPERMAN36 is from Mansfield. So you have support in the area. I am thinking Crank Position Sensor. The water may have gotten up that far.

Huh - didn't even know the CRDs had a CPS. It gave me trouble on mine (95 2.5L Cherokee). I think insurance may be an option as well (I think she has full coverage), but I'm most worried about having f-ed something up by starting it 3 or so hours after the water receded.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:24 pm

salinity wrote:

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Well, I am from Tiverton. STRIPERMAN36 is from Mansfield. So you have support in the area. I am thinking Crank Position Sensor. The water may have gotten up that far.

Huh - didn't even know the CRDs had a CPS. It gave me trouble on mine (95 2.5L Cherokee). I think insurance may be an option as well (I think she has full coverage), but I'm most worried about having f-ed something up by starting it 3 or so hours after the water receded.

When you started it, did you hear any abnormal noises?

salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

racertracer wrote:

When you started it did you hear any abnormal noises?

Nothing out of the ordinary. Bit of a hard start maybe, but it fired up pretty easily.

BTW - is it possible to pull codes without a reader (like older Cherokee's and such)? If so, any resource on technique and codes would be awesome.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:46 pm

salinity wrote:

racertracer wrote:

When you started it did you hear any abnormal noises?

Nothing out of the ordinary. Bit of a hard start maybe, but it fired up pretty easily.

BTW - is it possible to pull codes without a reader (like older Cherokee's and such)? If so, any resource on technique and codes would be awesome.

No.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:46 pm

salinity wrote:

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Well, I am from Tiverton. STRIPERMAN36 is from Mansfield. So you have support in the area. I am thinking Crank Position Sensor. The water may have gotten up that far.

Huh - didn't even know the CRDs had a CPS. It gave me trouble on mine (95 2.5L Cherokee). I think insurance may be an option as well (I think she has full coverage), but I'm most worried about having f-ed something up by starting it 3 or so hours after the water receded.

A little search will show that they sometimes give issues. It may have taken water.

Remember our little tractors are common rail and the injectors fire electronically. They need to know where the crank and cam is to fire correctly.

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papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:16 am

Given direction of water flow vs vehicle I suspect you have water pushed into the exhaust system. You might want to undo the marmon flange that holds the exhaust to the turbo and check. What salt water would do to the inside of the muffler and cat I don't know but suspect it would not be good.

Pull fuel filter or at minimum bleed and see what comes out. I wouldn't think you have water in the fuel but the fuel lines at least were underwater and it's possible some got in.

Did the starter go under water? I'm not sure how low it is.

Yes all the fluids should be changed and inspected for water when changed.

salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

papaindigo wrote:

Given direction of water flow vs vehicle I suspect you have water pushed into the exhaust system. You might want to undo the marmon flange that holds the exhaust to the turbo and check. What salt water would do to the inside of the muffler and cat I don't know but suspect it would not be good.

Pull fuel filter or at minimum bleed and see what comes out. I wouldn't think you have water in the fuel but the fuel lines at least were underwater and it's possible some got in.

Did the starter go under water? I'm not sure how low it is.

Yes all the fluids should be changed and inspected for water when changed.

sounds reasonablr. Do you think any additional damage was done by running it for a bit?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:42 pm

My quess is no. Although why you are having the problem could be from a variety of causes the only short term issue that could cause damage by running would be enough water in the fuel to hydrolock the engine. If the starter turns it over but it doesn't fire then the engine is not hydrolocked. That doesn't rule out water in the fuel just rules out lots of water. In theory if there is water in the fuel your WIF sensor should light that issue up on the dash but I'd still check the fuel.

In the longer term running it without fluid changes could cause damage.

Off hand I'd suspect a critical sensor is dead but have no clue which one. If you have good insurance and can get it towed to a good shop I would do that.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:56 pm

Also, for info, Corey from IDParts is right down the road in Pembroke. He may help you find a good shop near you. My shop is in Westport.

salinity · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:03 pm **Posts:** 7

papaindigo wrote:

My quess is no. Although why you are having the problem could be from a variety of causes the only short term issue that could cause damage by running would be enough water in the fuel to hydrolock the engine. If the starter turns it over but it doesn't fire then the engine is not hydrolocked. That doesn't rule out water in the fuel just rules out lots of water. In theory if there is water in the fuel your WIF sensor should light that issue up on the dash but I'd still check the fuel.

In the longer term running it without fluid changes could cause damage.

Off hand I'd suspect a critical sensor is dead but have no clue which one. If you have good insurance and can get it towed to a good shop I would do that.

Thanks - she's looking into options with her insurance today. I tried it once again this morning and it cranks but then seems to stop cranking, and the dash started blinking and flashing. I couldn't get it "close to starting" like during the previous attempt.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Cranks, but then the dashboard flashing could indicate that the battery isn't strong enough to keep attempting. This is a VERY computer controlled vehicle, and while none are located low enough to be drowned in the flood... That doesn't mean that a sensor wasn't killed by the water.

When you turn the key, the engine goes through a long list of self-checks before it "issues authorization" to turn the starter. If the power / amperage isn't sufficient, the computer will reboot in the middle of cranking, and you can get the flashing dash result. It also could be that the computer doesn't like something (electronic) while trying to start, and is aborting the start attempt.

The only sensor that I know of that is directly needed to start the engine, and is located where it would have gotten wet... Is the crank sensor on the flywheel housing. If the computer (which would also be reading the cam sensor) sees multiple cam rotations without sensing any crank rotations... That could easily annoy it and cause it to abort the start. If it doesn't know exactly where in the cycle it is at all times, it cannot possibly know when to inject fuel... And you get no vroom.

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jlgail4309 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:21 pm

geordi wrote:

Cranks, but then the dashboard flashing could indicate that the battery isn't strong enough to keep attempting. This is a VERY computer controlled vehicle, and while none are located low enough to be drowned in the flood... That doesn't mean that a sensor wasn't killed by the water.

When you turn the key, the engine goes through a long list of self-checks before it "issues authorization" to turn the starter. If the power / amperage isn't sufficient, the computer will reboot in the middle of cranking, and you can get the flashing dash result. It also could be that the computer doesn't like something (electronic) while trying to start, and is aborting the start attempt.

The only sensor that I know of that is directly needed to start the engine, and is located where it would have gotten wet... Is the crank sensor on the flywheel housing. If the computer (which would also be reading the cam sensor) sees multiple cam rotations without sensing any crank rotations... That could easily annoy it and cause it to abort the start. If it doesn't know exactly where in the cycle it is at all times, it cannot possibly know when to inject fuel... And you get no vroom.

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Geordi When you going to get another little Tractor ??? :JEEPIN:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:55 pm

jlgail4309 wrote:

Geordi When you going to get another little Tractor ??? :JEEPIN:

When it is snowing in Hell. I have had my fill of Chrysler products, and my family has the same feeling.

It really is too bad too, because the Liberty was a fine vehicle for my needs... Unfortunately, the flaws were far too many and great for my taste. No, I will not be willingly selecting a Chrysler for myself in any situation in the future, save one: a rental car where I won't be required to maintain it. Other than that, I will be looking at Ford products or VW products... Or just about anything else that might suit my needs at the time. But no more Chryslers.

Now if the Jeep brand is sold off to someone that can take better care of it (like say, Ford)... I might be a Jeep driver again someday.

jlgail4309 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:14 pm

We will just have to hope for snow!! Thanks for all the help you give to everyone!!

dkenny · **Posted:** Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:39 pm

I'm not sure about the hydrolock term used in this thread..
to me a hydro lock engine..is when a cyclinder has filled with fuild before the compression stroke.
such that when the intake and exhaust valves are closed with the pistion try to compress the liquid in the cylinder..and everyting stops! ITS LOCKED!! it STOPS turning over until the water is displaced..typically into the crackcase

water in the fuel cannot cause this..ever..
water in the fuel can cause it not to fire but cannot stop the engine from turning over..in the case above.
maybe I'm just missing something..

if its turning over but not firing..geordi might be right..any codes? without a cranksensor the engine is lost..when should it inject which cylinder?

-dkenny

CRD engine trouble post blizzard / slight seawater immersion

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