Rocker/Lifter Teardown with TB (Completed 3-8) WITH VIDEO!!

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:58 pm

First off, hat's off to Sir Sam for posting the Timing Belt video, it has been an immeasurable help so far. If ever we meet, I will buy the first couple rounds.

Second, so far it's not as hard as I thought it would be, I have been taking my time and stopping when I got frustrated. (When one can afford to do this, the value is high.)

This is digging in:

It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. (Like those Red Mishimoto's?) The Intercooler was rough to get out, had to do it pretty much exactly the way Sam Said in his guide.

The world's (seemingly) most rare tool in use:

I didn't realize it also had circular holes in it that went into place over the protrusions in the front.. Nice.

Top Down View:

Full Frontal Nudity:

This is how my Tensioner looked when I took the cover off, this is with 0 modification or movement, is this right?

It appears that it isn't lined up properly, but someone here that is wiser and has taken apart more of these might be able to say more than I on the subject.

Now on to other thoughts. I had to stop because it's Valentine's day, but I'll dig back in tomorrow. In Sir Sam's Guide, we put the timing pins in [I was not lucky enough to line it up the first time and had to go 180 degrees to get the plate hole lined up but...] (Which I got all 3 to go in from the Sealey set, I didn't even have to use a drill bit!!!) but since I have to take the whole cover off to get to the water pump as well as to take the valve cover off, I'm going to have to re-time this beast, aren't I?

I really don't even need to have the stupid timing pins in, because I'm going to have to re-time it anyways, right?

I thought I would get it in time before I took it apart and the pins would hold it in place, but apparently the pins go THROUGH THE VALVE COVER so that isn't gonna happen, am I right in this assumption?

Need some advice, and any pointers/tips that are available.

Thanks! As always I don't know what I would do without you guys!

JimT · **Posted:** Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:30 pm

Page 9-1692 of the KJ Manual shows the proper setting. It needs to go be rotated a little more clockwise. I just finished replacing the rockers and lifters. I don't see how you could get the timing correct without the $600+ tool. I got in line for the one from Green Diesel Engineering. GDE gave me $100 back when I sent the tools back. Removing the valve cover is a major undertaking because it is also part intake manifold and it also holds the rocker arms down. I had to remove the fuel rail and the injectors to get the cover off. My injectors came out without a special tool. The manual says that the injectors are rated by the amount of fuel they deliver and the information is entered into the vehicle computer so it is important to put them back into the hole they came out of.

I spent a lot of time in the manual during this adventure. Good Luck!

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:30 am

Yeah, that's the way the Tensioner was when I opened her up, which may be part of the reason (along with the bum turbo) that my rockers/lifters are now smashed...

I have talked with other members about using pieces of all-thread the same size as the cover bolts to lower the cover onto the rockers/lifters, but my primary concern is how to re-time the beast once I get that done.

Apparently I have to move the #1 piston to 90 degrees past top-dead-center to re-time it or something along those lines.

I assume it's safe to keep the flywheel shear plate pin in place and that will help with some aspects of timing, and I could turn each cam to find the pin hole once the valve cover was back on, because obviously if they rotate enough that I would find the hole 180 degrees different I'm doing something really wrong with the rockers anyways....

I just know there's more to it, not even considering once the belt is back on, there's another whole process.

Papaindigo, Sir Sam, Geordi?

Halp.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Your tensioner positioner was fine for the amount of miles on the CRD. At the factory it is set with the window in line with the spring bar. As the belt wears over time the tensioner auto adjusts with internal spring to maintain tension on the belt. The window will drop down slightly with belt wear. Completely normal.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:26 pm

Hexus wrote:

InSir Sam's Guide, we put the timing pins in [I was not lucky enough to line it up the first time and had to go 180 degrees to get the plate hole lined up but...] (Which I got all 3 to go in from the Sealey set, I didn't even have to use a drill bit!!!) but since I have to take the whole cover off to get to the water pump as well as to take the valve cover off, I'm going to have to re-time this beast, aren't I? I really don't even need to have the stupid timing pins in, because I'm going to have to re-time it anyways, right?

No. The pins stay in the intake manifold/VC/camshaft holder when you remove that piece, and hold both cams in proper position. You could remove the IMVCCH without pins and put them in later when ready to reassemble, I suppose, but this is foolresistant.

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:14 pm

So I'm really worried about nothing, and really just need to make sure I lower the cover back on easily (all-thread or the like) and the timing should be set the way I left it, replace the sprockets per my markings to ensure I don't get off a tooth, and also make sure I get the teeth right on the bottom of the belt.

Alrighty, diving back in.

I'll number the injectors as I take them off, I have Crow-Foot sockets to take the Injector lines apart versus the tool.

Re-torque it all going back together, alright.

How Critical are the copper crush washers in the Injectors? Do they HAVE to be replaced, should I replace, or would it be alright to put the old back in?

Thoughts?

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:06 pm

Hexus wrote:

So I'm really worried about nothing, and really just need to make sure I lower the cover back on easily (all-thread or the like) and the timing should be set the way I left it, replace the sprockets per my markings to ensure I don't get off a tooth, and also make sure I get the teeth right on the bottom of the belt.
Alrighty, diving back in.
I'll number the injectors as I take them off, I have Crow-Foot sockets to take the Injector lines apart versus the tool.
Re-torque it all going back together, alright.
How Critical are the copper crush washers in the Injectors? Do they HAVE to be replaced, should I replace, or would it be alright to put the old back in?

Thoughts?

WRT sprockets, the easy way to do this, given that you have taken the cam sprockets off the cam shaft to do the WP and rockers, is to place the sprockets back on the cams, loosely attach the bolts, install the belt, and then torque the bolts. The marks will not match, but that is ok.

WRT injectors, I used a 17 mm brake line wrench; open end and crows foot would not torque those fittings tightly enough to prevent a leak. If you heat the copper washers with a propane torch and let them cool, you could reuse them, but *I* do not recommend this practise. You must thoroughly clean the injector recess in the head and you must install new Orings around the injector body.

Good luck!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:11 pm

IMHO you really should use new injector "O" rings and crush washers. While you might could reuse the crush washers why try to cheap out to save maybe a total of $25 and risk having to redo one or more injector installs.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:24 pm

You're essentially correct. You'll re-time the engine by following the field service manual (FSM) procedures (exactly, or very close to it) as you re-assemble.

The FSM procedures have you set the flywheel/crank pin to lock the crank at 90ATDC. This keeps the valves and pistons from contacting each other as you move the cams into alignment. The cam pins and plate, when the FSM procedures are followed, lock the cam timing to match the crank while you re-install the belt and set tension.

When you've completed the belt and tensioner installation, the alignment will once again be set to factory and will, over the course of the next 100k miles, relax a little as the belt stretches. The tensioner's job is to keep sufficient tension throughout the normal operational life (and stretching) of the belt so that when you reach the next timing belt change interval it should still provide sufficient tension for reliable operation.

The problem with our tractors is that when you reach end-of-life for the timing belt (at the 100k mark), you are so close to the operating limits of tension and the capability of the worn belt that almost no margin for error remains. When we get 'bit', it's usually because we tried to get a few extra miles out of the belt before performing the service procedure.

Occasionally, other events can happen to shorten this, such as serpentine belt failures where it wraps around the crank's harmonic balancer, or a water pump failure, or anything that might take a belt otherwise close to being past it's useful life and prematurely pushes it past it's breaking point which is, as many of us have discovered, perilously close as you approach 100k miles on the belt.

Often, the teeth have become cracked and weakened so that one can break off and allow the cam timing to slip a tooth or two - and this destroys timing, which in turn destroys the rocker arms (by design) in order to save the valves and pistons from self-destruction. Of course, the belt can also skip a tooth when the tension is insufficent. This is an alternative failure mode that happens when we try and get a little more life out of a belt past it's prime. Either way, results are the same: belt failure, timing slip, and broken rockers.

So - follow the FSM and all should go well.

You can purchase the pins for use in aligning the engine cover during re-installation. They're just bolts with the heads removed, and which stick up enough to keep the cover off of the rocker arms as you position it to drop down over the alignment bolts. Once in place, you remove them and install the standard bolts. You can make your own also; one of us could probably give you the height of the factory alignment bolts used for that purpose. They're cheap and often available via eBay.

I've seen some place wood strips (1x2's aligned front-to-back) on the engine block to help prevent knocking the rockers off during the cover install as well - as an added safety precaution. If you use the bolts designed for that purpose it isn't necessary but the wood (or similar) can give you a little extra peace of mind that nothing got knocked off during the cover installation. Basically, align the cover, slip out the wood, and then carefully drop the cover that last inch or so. Either way - slow and easy wins the race.

Mark

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:26 pm

Ditto on Papa's comments re: injector o-rings and copper crush washers. They're designed for single use and throw-away at service intervals. They're inexpensive, and it's' wise to follow the FSM recommendations here and replace them also.

Again, we've seen folks who fail to follow this recommendation struggle with injector leaks after re-installing injectors.

Mark

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:55 pm

I've posted cam pin dimensions at viewtopic.php?f=98&t=72201 on the CRD tech forum and you can use a 6mm or 1/4" allen key for the flywheel pin (see the 05 FSM for how to on the allen key). The GDE timing belt post shows how to use 2 allen keys to tighten the TB tensioner.

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:44 pm

I have the entire Sealey Kit I ordered from Great Britain, which includes VM.1089 (in place), VM.1052 (in place), and VM.1053 (in place) the Tensioner wrench, and some other pin and thing I don't think I'll be using.

I guess I'll have to order the Crush Washers and O-Rings now, I wasn't planning on that and didn't think about it but it's definitely sounding like it's needed.

Thanks guys!

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:48 pm

Anyone have the part # on those Copper Crush Washers? I found the O Rings for the Fuel Injectors, but they have 2 different copper washers with 2 different #'s, do I need one or the other or a combination of both?

Anyone have an OEM part #? I guess I can go look at the Service Manual, doing that now.

...heh... :oops:

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:03 pm

Well, still can't find them.

05072722AA comes up with nothing on any site...

05093922AA comes up with nothing on any site...

05069135AB is the O-Rings, anyone have a Part # for the copper crush washers please?

Thanks!

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

drop the "0" on those part numbers and it should work.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:20 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

drop the "0" on those part numbers and it should work.

As usual, he is correct: http://www.factorymoparparts.com/5072722aa.html

Mark

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:26 pm

Anyone know someplace that sells both?

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:40 pm

I got mine from mopar online. They are cheep. Looking good so far. The wiring harness and injectors are the worse part. Spray the injectors down. You may need to twist them a little to loosen. Clean everything well.

When installing the intake, be sure to use guide pins and follow the tighten procedure. It takes a bit of time. But not hard.

Any questions PM me. Good luck.

JimT · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:30 pm

I don't think that you can take the valve cover off without unbolting the can gears and removing them, along with the timing belt cover behind the gears. The rental tool is very helpful when putting things back together. I was concerned when I got the valve cover back on that everything was in working order. I discovered that synthetic wine corks worked to protect the injector holes. I was also able to use them to check that the valves were opening. On the compression stroke, I could shoot the corks into a towel.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:57 pm

You talking about the Fuel rail tool? I have the cam gear tool, in fact there's a picture of it in use above.

I ordered my crush washers and o-rings today, should be here next Tuesday.

I got tied up in some stuff, but the Valve cover is coming off tomorrow to replace rockers/lifters while I wait for other parts.

Should I soak the injectors in diesel while I wait to put them back in? I intend on cleaning them, you think Brake Parts Cleaner will work?

Just looking for thoughts. Thanks for input so far.

More pictures tomorrow as I dig deeper.

Rocker/Lifter Teardown with TB (Completed 3-8) WITH VIDEO!!

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