CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:54 pm

I would make sure the fuel filter was tight? Make sure the hose clamps are not cutting into the rubber hose? If you think it may be? Cut off a inch of hose and reinstall. Bleed the fuel housing?

A member stated he used a Dry/wet vac and swaped the hose to the outlet side so the vac would blow air. He hooked it up to the fuel tank with a rag. Loosened the bleed port and fuel ran out bleeding the system. I never did this but I will be at my next filter change. It sounds like a great idea.

JEBCRD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:02 pm

Billwill wrote:

The way I read the codes on my 2002 CRD is to turn the ignition ON/OFf 4 times rapidly without starting....the codes should then display from oldest to newest. Beware that often the last two digits are transposed.

Is your Auto Shut Down (ASD) relay energizing? This is in the fuse box under the hood.
Try swapping it with an identical one next to it.
Try removing the ASD relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 in the empty socket and see what happens.

Do you have the SKIS light...amber light of key symbol with line going through it....come ON and stay ON while cranking?

Bill i tried the key thing, I tryed every combination of on/off i could. I got a reader from Autozone and it said no codes. But someone has told me that these code readers don't alwayss pick up codes for the CRD's. I'm going to try the jug thing this weekend and just see if im actually moving any fuel and go from there.
Tell me do these rigs have a lift pump of sort or is it relying only on the injector pump to pull fuel from the tank. I was arguing with one of our plant Mechanics about that and he said there's one in the tank just like on a gas rig. I told him i did't think so but he was very adiment that there was. He thru in there that he used to work at the Dodge place as a Mech. so i'm really douting him for sure now. :roll:

I thought i read here that they don't unless someone has put one in. Which way is it?

kjjet, That sounds like good advice. I've got a filter coming and will be here in the morning. I'm going to change the filter tomorrow.

No i dont have the other light showing. just the engine symbol.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Not that kjjet didn't give you good advice, but doing the gallon milk things would eliminate the need for all those. Your call:).

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:34 pm

Crank but no start or no keep running after working ok. Some thoughts..
1. clogged air filter - check replace if needed
2. clogged fuel filter
3. air in fuel - for 2 and 3 do the jug bit or just splice 6" of clear vinyl line into filter out flow line, crank and look for air and fuel flow. If lots of air do you have 1st gen filter head (2n gen has blue heater plug cap) if so replace. If no fuel flow retry with fuel tank cap off. If still no fuel flow or if fuel does flow..
4. bad fuel rail pressure sensor will not allow fuel rail pressure to build hence no start, bad crank position sensor won't tell ECU when injectors pulse so no fire.
5. might be battery or failure to read valid ignition key although the latter is unlikely as it was running fine.

Absolute fact no debate possible and Dodge mech. opinions are worth zero - CRD does NOT have in tank fuel pump. It has the wiring for one at least as far as the back seat and it has the in tank assembly, more or less, for one but that assembly lacks the pump and only works as a fuel level gauge. Any 05/06 CRD with an in tank fuel pump is an aftermarket install even if it's a MOPAR part.

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:45 pm

Good advise papaindigo. I have a clear hose still installed in mine, since i also had air in fuel issues. I plan to remove it at my next filter change.

JEBCRD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:24 pm

Wow, this is awesome! I can't believe the responses and the basic help i'm getting. I just down loaded the 05 service manual, now i'm getting a lot better understanding and placement of each component.
papaindigo thanks, that sounds good i'm going to have a full day trying all these suggestions. I'm going to rule out the fuel flow first and work from there. I think i have the later fuel head because after buying it i went to the dealer to find out if the recalls had been performed and what other info i could find out and i was told and printed what had been done to the rig and the filter housing was done. along with the torque converter and flash and ball joints. They said the lady that owned it brought it in religously for service. It looks like it's been took care of. As soon as i figure out what is causing my current problem, I'm fixing to get rid of the EGR and such plus do some upgrades in hopes to make it a more reliable rig. Hopefully i'll have her running tomorrow or at least know it's not a fuel problem. Thanks, and keep sending ideas. One think i did do was put the battery on the charger so i'll have a good strong battery when troubleshooting.

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:17 am

JEBCRD wrote:

Wow, this is awesome! I can't believe the responses and the basic help i'm getting. I just down loaded the 05 service manual, now i'm getting a lot better understanding and placement of each component.
papaindigo thanks, that sounds good i'm going to have a full day trying all these suggestions. I'm going to rule out the fuel flow first and work from there. I think i have the later fuel head because after buying it i went to the dealer to find out if the recalls had been performed and what other info i could find out and i was told and printed what had been done to the rig and the filter housing was done. along with the torque converter and flash and ball joints. They said the lady that owned it brought it in religously for service. It looks like it's been took care of. As soon as i figure out what is causing my current problem, I'm fixing to get rid of the EGR and such plus do some upgrades in hopes to make it a more reliable rig. Hopefully i'll have her running tomorrow or at least know it's not a fuel problem. Thanks, and keep sending ideas. One think i did do was put the battery on the charger so i'll have a good strong battery when troubleshooting.

Well now that you have the Service manual you should see that the CRDs do not have a lift pump as standard...lots of people install their own lift pump to get rid of air in the fuel.

If you do not come right...check out if the ASD relay is energizing as I stated earlier...will give us something to work on. :wink:

JEBCRD · **Posted:** Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:46 pm

Well here's an update on what I've done I've had success but it is really weird. I went to town this morning and picked up a Fuel filter for the liberty. I put the battery on the charger the other night because of all my testing and cranking it sounded like it was running down. Return home with the filter and thought one second that I would try to crank it just to see and I had the hood up and I thought well I'm going to check the filter I primed it turn the key and it cranked for a longer time than usual but it started. I can't figure if maybe I had gotten some air out of the line and probably could have started it the other night but my battery got week. What really puzzles me is how the air maybe got in to the fuel line I did Tighten the filter up just about a quarter turn so there may be a possibility it got in there. I want to thank all you guys for chipping in and given me some advise and help I really do appreciate it it looks like I'll be hanging around here for a while I have some modifications I need to work on to get this thing in tiptop shape. I think for now the culprit in this whole matter was air in the fuel line and eventually my battery got too weak to crank the thing fast enough to started so after I charge the battery and I had bled the fuel line when I tried starting it again that's when it started.

user113 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:04 am

Glad to hear you're up and running again. I hope one of those modifications you have planned include a lift pump. You will notice a difference.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 am

IMO, the easiest fuel pump to install is the one from Kennedy diesel.

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=39362

You can obviously choose different locations for the pump, but IMO the location keighjeigh chose is the best, but not the easiest. In my case, I mounted it close to transfer case, under the end of transfer case shield. Was also easy to hook it up on the diesel line, after I cut a 6-ish inch from it. I also have a separate button to start it.

Kennedy pump is easier to install vs the in-tank pump bc you don't have to take out the fuel tank. Price for Kennedy pump its probably the same, about 200 bucks, then you need some hoses, clamps, fittings and some metal from a hardware store (to make a bracket for pump). Marine 3/8 fuel hose you can get from NAPA. Maybe 250 all combined. Plus the bonus is that you never need to use the primer again, lol.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:41 am

If your fuel system has a 2nd gen fuel housing and it's maintained correctly there is no need for a lift pump.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:19 am

Sounds like your fuel filter was likely loose enough for air to get past the gasket. For what it's worth:
1. if you have a 1s gen fuel filter head, see my post above on how to ID or see the fuel bleeding video on Sir Sam's NOOB guide, I'd strongly recommend replacing it as a proactive measure. FYI a) the new fuel heater wiring pigtail does not match the current wireing color codes just splice in based on best wire size match and b) the new head comes with a new filter and WIF sensor (save your old WIF sensor just in case).
2. there are essentially 2 types of fuel supply systems a) puller where the fuel pump is located in the engine bay (very common on older gas engines which had a mechanical fuel pump driven by a cam off the engine) and b) pusher where the fuel pump is located in or adjacent to the fuel tank. Puller systems (like the CRD) can suck air into the lines thru loose connections (on the CRD it's commonly the fuel supply line quick disconnect fittings that are designed for the KJ gasser which has an in tank fuel pump) between the tank and the pump. Pusher systems, in contrast, leak fuel out of loose connections.

What to do on the CRD? Several approaches work.
1. cut the fuel supply line quick disconnect fittings out of the system and replace with fuel hose (I strongly recommend marine grade diesel rated line). IIRC requires dropping fuel tank as 1 fitting is on top of the tank. Cheap, relatively easy to do, and fixes the most common (other than the filter head itself) source of air.
2. replace in tank fuel level sensor unit with combo fuel pump/level sensor unit. Requires dropping tank. Somewhat expensive (don't recall pricing but likely $200-300), a bit of work to remove/install unit and do wiring, and pressurizes entire line all the way to the CP3 pump in the engine bay. Cures air in fuel but might produces leaks at loose fittings which can easily be cured.
3. in line lift pump. Can be installed back near fuel tank or can be installed in engine bay (for latter install see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24527&hilit=automatic which includes an automatic air bleeder if you want to do that also), either way seems to work. The Kennedy (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/categoryre ... egory2=126) is a good pump but pricey. A Facet 40109 (http://www.yachtsupplydepot.com/mechani ... t_697.html) or Chevy Tahoe pump (NAPA part #AFP E3309 or Airtex E3309) are much less expensive options that work fine. Key is a pump that's a) flow thru so if the pump dies fuel still flows and b) relatively low pressure (consensus seems to be ca. 6psi)

Take your pick. #2 is probably ideal if $s are not an issue. #1 and 3 are or can be considerably less expensive. What did I do? Got the 2n gen fuel filter head and my problems went away but I've got the Facet on the shelf for stoutdog and myself and will likely install at least stoutdog's later this Spring as he does still have some air issues with his 2n gen filter head. Will I do the automatic bleeder, don't know yet.

JEBCRD · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:10 pm

Papa, that is great info and i plan to probably do a pusher pump of some sort. I had a lot of the same problems with my dodge truck and when the injector pump failed under warranty the factory dropped the tank and intalled one there. It's funny how Chrysler wont admit to a design flaw and do a recall but when the failure happens they change their design.

I pretty much think i have the gen2 pump/filter. The plug has been spliced and the color is a greenish/blue color and who ever changed it left one of the mounting nuts off (probably the dealership where serviced). I talked to the guy i bought it from and he changed the filter and serviced it right before i bought it. I asked him about the housing and he said he hadn't changed it. So i think i'm good there.

After i got the KJ running i pulled the MAP sensor and give it a good cleaning. I was suprised, it wasn't as built up as some of the pics ive seen on here, but is was caked up. While messing around i did the off road mod (i think thats what it's called) unplugging the sensor in the air box. I wanted to see if the code reader i had would detect a code. Some had suggested that some readers wont read codes from the CRD. Well the one i have gave me the code i can remember the number right now but it did detect that code so i'm hopeful it would read others if they would occur in future. Just thought i would share that for what it's worth. It's an actron cp9125 from autozone.
Thanks for all the links that is great info. You guy's are top notch in my opinion

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:57 pm

What I like about Kennedy pump is that if it fails, you still get flow through it. Most other pumps, and I think also the in tank ones, would just stop the fuel flow at failure. Something you should think about before you get a pump. Also, you don't need a crazy psi pressure amount for you crd, the 5 (I think) psi from Kennedy is more than enough. Just my 2 cents, not saying other options are bad at all.

Auberon · **Posted:** Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:55 am

The quick-connects in the line could be your source of air.

True.....the half assed OBDII implementation that Chrysler came up with on our Jeep won't allow you to use most of the features of this scanner. Plus, the oxygen sensor on our CRD never fails :ROTFL:

I've seen a few different approaches work with the KJ:
Another worth trying to get the ECU to go into what is called "countdown" (revealing codes) is:
Turn the key as before but do it 6 times whilst holding in the tripmeter button.
Have also seen codes yielded by:
Key on then zero the tripmeter then flip the key as before ending at "on" 6 times.
If that doesn't work: I have also seen work whilst not holding the Trip meter Zero button in:
The step immediately above whilst the odometer button was held in.
Then repeat with it held in through the whole key process.

The actual key action needs to be completed in 5 seconds.

Of course, there are guarantees but they are worth a try.
As you have viewed some Utube info this may well be covered but in countdown the gauges flick and the lights go through a sequence of resets. Like a digital automotive h=gauge does with the FSD (full scale deflection) to reset.

Hope that is useful to you.

Yeah line pressure in the lines to and from the tank is a max of 4-5 psi. After the ump P>19 K psi. That is the side to be wary of.
By the way as routine:
The MAP should be cleaned at least every other oil change and the MAF at least every 4th oil change (depending on how long your change interval is). I do my MAP every 6 000 miles and MAF every 12 000 miles.
Cheers

CRD cranks but no start? a Newbie here needs imput.

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