What are symptoms of worn rocker arms?

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:51 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

tcoilburner wrote:

Before we all blame the 0W40 CF rated oil, I have had no problems with it for the first 90,000 miles, can any one tell us the additive difference between a CF and CJ4 rated oil? Just because it is newer does not mean it is better, remember the goverment is coming up with this regulation. Does one or the other rating have more antiwear additive than the other (Known for sure). I has been my understanding that the goverment has been removing stuff for the oil for aleast the last 7 or 8 years?

The only think I know for sure is last late summer the CF rating on the Mobil1 0W40 was removed. So I switched the last oil change I did in December to Delvac1 5W40. The only problem I have seen with it is, it cost me about 2 mpg driving back and forth to work durring the week. I only am up to operating temp for a mile or two max. On long trips it only has change rough a 1 mpg. I would like to switch back to a good 0W40 for the mileage and the fact the oil will get through the engine on cold starts quicker. :2cents:

Q- have you checked the wear on your rockers?

No, I plan on going to our Chrysler dealership to use there Starscan to check idle air flow in the next couple of weeks (I work in the gm store). Then I will know and can post back. I need to check because I want to get the timing belt changed before it warms up and I start towing agian. I am looking into the Liqui Moly oil I sent them an email last night. :juggle:

Does anyone know what the conversion to lb/min the reading should be? I can get that reading on my Iphone with dash command app. I can not get it to read in meteric.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:40 pm

17 g/s should be 2.25 lb/min

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:53 pm

CATCRD wrote:

17 g/s should be 2.25 lb/min

Thanks

Checked this morning. it is running 2.4 to 2.5 :pepper:

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:14 am

I just read in the new diesel power mag. That a new 0w40 is out by Shell, rotella T synthetic rated a cj4 oil.

fatweasel · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Set up "Dashcommand" on my iPhone (uses an ELM OBDII interface).

Reading 2.4 lb/min at idle, which corresponds to about 718 mg/stroke at 760 rpm.

Caddis · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:35 pm

Just got the Torque app working yesterday.
My MAF value was initially 17 a few minutes after starting, but after the vehicle was warmed up to regular operating temp it was sitting at about 16.3, both values at idle. I will add that was at 16 degrees F, 800 ft above sea level, and all my winter modifications. I'm not sure how much that matters, if at all.
If I'm understanding things correctly this may mean my rockers have seen better days?

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:40 pm

I got the BT2 obd scanner and Torque pro app on android but can not seem to setup MAF reading all i can get is the RPM display. by the way as pointed above 2.4-2.5 is a good reading i guess.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:21 pm

That is the main symptom of worn rocker arms.

:furious:

pinzgauer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:12 pm **Posts:** 9

Hexus · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:19 pm

You joined 3 years ago and THIS is your first post? :shock:

I've been reading more, and I just switched to Rotella T6 5w-40. I've been reading about how it doesn't perform well in motorcycles, but I believe that's primarily because they run at 5-6k rpms and our little diesels red line at 4k.

I'm not sure entirely though, that the Rotella is made for a 6250 interval, which bothers me a bit, however with it's reduced cost I could see changing oil at 3k again.

Rotella T6 = $20 / Gallon = 5 gallons = 3 oil changes = $100

Mobil 1 0W40 (When I can find it, usually have to order) = $9/quart = 20 quarts = 3 oil changes = $180

Now I guess if you half the service interval and add the price of filters it is actually probably cheaper to run the 0W40 if you can't run the T6 out to 6250 miles, or even 6k miles.

Food for thought, anyways.

pinzgauer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:12 pm **Posts:** 9

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:59 pm

pinzgauer....Nice post. I totally agree. That's why I am sticking with M1 0-w40.

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:48 pm

I agree that there is a good reason the oil spec was for a cf US rated oil and I see m1 0w40 still carries the euro b3/b4 Diesel engine rating. I ask my Mobil rep. to check if the formula change or if is the same. I was told 7 or 8 year ago at a meeting with GM engine engineers that the oils in Europe were better quality, because over there engine makers make the specs for oil the engine needs instead of our government telling the manufacturer what they will run. After one oil change with a delvac1 5w40, I am switching back to a 0w40 for the cold start performance I was use too. :2cents:

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:58 pm

tcoilburner wrote:

I agree that there is a good reason the oil spec was for a cf US rated oil and I see m1 0w40 still carries the euro b3/b4 Diesel engine rating. I ask my Mobil rep. to check if the formula change or if is the same. I was told 7 or 8 year ago at a meeting with GM engine engineers that the oils in Europe were better quality, because over there engine makers make the specs for oil the engine needs instead of our government telling the manufacturer what they will run. After one oil change with a delvac1 5w40, I am switching back to a 0w40 for the cold start performance I was use too. :2cents:

My Mobil rep has told me several times its the best Mobil oil you can use in the VM engine. You are not the first to say they like the M1 0w40 cold starting performance.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:13 pm

Good post backed with facts now I need some more insight into other options like Mobil TDT 5w40 and Delo 5w40 LE synthetic.Thanks.

pinzgauer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:12 pm **Posts:** 9

Srytrucker wrote:

Good post backed with facts now I need some more insight into other options like Mobil TDT 5w40 and Delo 5w40 LE synthetic.Thanks.

Their target audience is the CI-4/CJ HDEO market. (IE: The 15w40 Rotella T, Delo 400, etc).

I've heard good about both, but neither are MB 229.5, only 228.3. Nor are the Euro B4, which is the closest thing to a spec for the VM R428 I've found.

Given Mobil sells a Mobil 1 5w40 in europe, I have to wonder if M1 TDT is not the same.

I'll have to check, but I think the Delo LE syn is not a true synthetic. (I think I read it's like the Rotella T6). But supposed to be very good oil.

But then again.... 5qt M1 0w40 for $26 at wally world. Kindof hard to beat that.

Meanwhile, here's Shell's answer to a VW TDI owner when asked about T6 and the VW spec diesel oil. (Virtually identical to the MB 229.5):

Quote:

Because the formulation requirements for North American diesel engines are considerably different than for European diesel engines like the VW TDI, it is not possible to make one product that would meet both sets of specifications.

Therefore, our Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-40, which is intended primarily for the North American diesel engine market, won't ever be able to meet the VW 507 00 specification.

Further, since the primary marketing emphasis for our Shell Rotella oils is for heavy duty diesel engines, our marketing group has generally chosen not to make products in this line for the passenger car market.

We do, however, have products in our Pennzoil and Quaker State lines, where the emphasis is passenger cars, for your application. Pennzoil Ultra Euro L SAE 5W-30 and Quaker State Ultimate Durability European L SAE 5W-30 are certified to VW 507 00.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

so you have to ask yourself: "Does my KJ CRD have more in common with MB/BMW/VW light diesels under 3 liters? Or a 5.9, 6.0, or 7.0l US diesel????"

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:09 pm

It is making more sense to stick to European specs besides I am yet to see a bad UOA report on Mobil .....food for thought.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:40 am

pinzgauer wrote:

Srytrucker wrote:

Good post backed with facts now I need some more insight into other options like Mobil TDT 5w40 and Delo 5w40 LE synthetic.Thanks.

Their target audience is the CI-4/CJ HDEO market. (IE: The 15w40 Rotella T, Delo 400, etc).

I've heard good about both, but neither are MB 229.5, only 228.3. Nor are the Euro B4, which is the closest thing to a spec for the VM R428 I've found.

Given Mobil sells a Mobil 1 5w40 in europe, I have to wonder if M1 TDT is not the same.

What exactly does MB 229.5 or 228.3 mean?
If I were to conduct a laboratory analysis of the two, what differences might I find?

To me, analyzing all these all these European specifications is futile considering
that none of the euro oils are sold in the US. I would not be surprised to find
that the M1 0w-40 is european in name only and does not actually meet any MB
spec.

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:24 am

According to Mobil 1's website it meets the approval (same thing as meets the specs?) for the MB229.5 standard.

Copied and pasted from Mobil 1's website under 0w-40:
Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic motor oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R

Mobil 1 0W-40 motor oil has the following builders approval:
MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00
VW 505 00
PORSCHE A40

It's discussions like this that make me ponder switching back to 0w-40 over the 5w-40TDT oil. AHHHHHHH! The oil debate continues! :juggle:

Jim

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:28 am

Quote:

What exactly does MB 229.5 or 228.3 mean?

That's also what I'd like to know specifically. What does an oil have to do to be approved for that spec?

What are symptoms of worn rocker arms?

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