Initial Startup after TB Replacement

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Well, all the marks still lined up after umpteen rotations by hand, so before buttoning it all up, I held the alternator in my hands off the motor and had my wife start the Jeep. It fired right away and ran on all four, but smoked a LOT, would not hold an idle and stalled. She had to apply a little throttle to keep it running. It seemed to run reasonably smoothly with some throttle, but was not brought above 1500 RPM. Do you end up putting fuel in the cylinders with all the hand rotation? (I assumed there would be no fuel delivery.) All the ancillaries and serpentine belt are not reinstalled.

The intercooler hoses are in place, but the turbo is not connected to the airbox since it has not been re-installed, yet. The electrical plugs to the thermostat, viscous heater, etc, are not connected.

Is this normal when you try to run these briefly in this state, or?? I am about to attempt to put all the pins back in to see if I somehow screwed up. Is there an incorrect hole in the flywheel that is near the correct one that I might have used by mistake?

Thanks to everyone as always......

DOC

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:50 pm

rixram and I had no problems turning them over after the tb change. Made sure the cams, injection pump, and crank all lined up, IIRC that occurs every 3rd full rotation of the crankshaft

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:57 pm

Striper,

I remember both fireing up before full reassembly, but I cannot recall if they idled fine on their own. In this case, I replaced the thermostat and water pump and removed the cam gears.

Thanks as always,

DOC

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:02 pm

Also, is it normal to be able to rotate the crank a little bit back and forth with the flywheel pin (and cam pins) in place?

Thanks,

DOC

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:16 pm

yes, we did move the crank back and forth with the cam pins in. i believe that was due to the slack in the old tb

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:03 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

Well, all the marks still lined up after umpteen rotations by hand, so before buttoning it all up, I held the alternator in my hands off the motor and had my wife start the Jeep. It fired right away and ran on all four, but smoked a LOT, would not hold an idle and stalled. She had to apply a little throttle to keep it running. It seemed to run reasonably smoothly with some throttle, but was not brought above 1500 RPM. Do you end up putting fuel in the cylinders with all the hand rotation? (I assumed there would be no fuel delivery.) All the ancillaries and serpentine belt are not reinstalled.

The intercooler hoses are in place, but the turbo is not connected to the airbox since it has not been re-installed, yet. The electrical plugs to the thermostat, viscous heater, etc, are not connected.

Is this normal when you try to run these briefly in this state, or?? I am about to attempt to put all the pins back in to see if I somehow screwed up. Is there an incorrect hole in the flywheel that is near the correct one that I might have used by mistake?

Thanks to everyone as always......

DOC

This running condition upon start up? Did you just replace the TB? or did you have the fuel system open? What replacement procedure did you use? Did you loosen the cam sprokets?

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:44 pm

I did water pump, thermostat and SAMCOs. Cam gears were R & R. Was not aware of opening the fuel system, but Keith from GDE just suggested that the poor running may be due to air in the system that needs to be purged.

I find it hard to believe that the relationship between the cams to each other and the injection pump is screwed up. However, I cannot rule out that the crank could be off a tooth, one way or another.

I reinstalled all the pins after starting and all the marks still line up. However, I can rotate the crank back and forth the equivalent of at least one tooth, maybe two, with the Miller crank pin slightly threaded into the bell housing.

How do you tell if you are off just one tooth at the crank at this point?

Thanks again,

DOC

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:52 am

Keith from GDE told me to check the mark on the end of the crank. (Did not know about that.) It is supposed to be at 3 o'clock with all the pins in and, thankfully, it is!

BTW, is it common when all the above is in place for the factory marks on the injection pump pulley to NOT line up?

I vaguely remember reading this somewhere.......

I do not believe anyone has been in this motor since the factory touched it.

Appreciate your thoughts.......

DOC

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:36 am

The consensus appears to be that the injection pump pulley mark only lines up on like every 3 revolutions. Best bet is to mark a tooth and the adjacent housing before pulling the old TB and make sure the marks line up on the reinstall. To what extent it's really timed I don't know.

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:17 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

I did water pump, thermostat and SAMCOs. Cam gears were R & R. Was not aware of opening the fuel system, but Keith from GDE just suggested that the poor running may be due to air in the system that needs to be purged.

I find it hard to believe that the relationship between the cams to each other and the injection pump is screwed up. However, I cannot rule out that the crank could be off a tooth, one way or another.

I reinstalled all the pins after starting and all the marks still line up. However, I can rotate the crank back and forth the equivalent of at least one tooth, maybe two, with the Miller crank pin slightly threaded into the bell housing.

How do you tell if you are off just one tooth at the crank at this point?

Thanks again,

DOC

Ok... If you did not open a fuel line? and it dose not sound like you did then you may be off a tooth on the crank. I have a by the Jeep service manual procedure to installing the timing belt Correctly.With the help of GDE. I will copy below. I also have pic's. MP your email and i will send them. I hope you did not break some rockers? But if i was to guess i would say you did. I have a intake removal procedure if you need one.

Good Luck!!

Jeep Liberty CRD Timing Belt Replacement
Procedure (2.8l diesel)
Revised by KJJET
1. Remove cooling fan and shroud. *In order to remove them there is two methods.
A. Remove the grill, bumper, inner grill and electric fan. Then remove the bolts holding the intercooler and radiator. Now with the intercooler and radiator pulled back the fan and shroud can be accessed. Remove the shroud intercooler and radiator then move on to removing the fan.
OR B. Remove the grill and gain access to the intercooler and radiator bolts and remove them. This will give you a inch or two to access the shroud and fan.
The fan assembly is best removed with a very large crescent wrench on the nut just behind the fan viscous coupling. Then hit the wrench in a counter
clockwise direction with a small sledgehammer. It may help to
spray with penetrating oil. Worst case, wedge something behind
the fan drive pulley to keep it from rotating and then use the
sledge method.
2. Remove accessory drive belt.
3. Remove both idler pulley (right hand thread, 16 mm) (a), power
steering pump (3 bolts that you get to by rotating the pulley, 10
mm) (b), accessory belt tensioner (c), cooling fan pulley and
bracket( 4-13 mm bolts) (d), crankshaft pulley/damper (4-10mm
bolts, you may need to hold the pulley by the 21 mm center bolt)
(e), and alternator (2-13 mm bolts on the front and 1-15 mm on
the back side-note you will have to loosen the 2-13 mm bolts for
the bracket that holds the alternator to the cylinder head) (f) .
4. Remove the front timing cover (7mm bolt x 17)
5. Remove both plugs in the camshaft cover (one on intake side
behind alternator placement, one on exhaust side behind
thermostat area). Remove the plugs with a 5mm hex.
6. Rotate the engine clockwise only with a 21mm socket on the
front of the crankshaft until the crank timing mark is located at 90 degrees (3:00) and a 6mm hex key engages the hole in the flexplate/flywheel.
7. Inspect the two openings in the camshaft cover to see if the holes
in the camshafts align. If so, install the two pins into the
respective camshaft. If not, remove the 6mm hex key and rotate the engine 360 degrees at the crankshaft and re-inspect. Note: this may take up to 3 rotations to get all three installed.
8. Loosen the timing belt tensioner and rotate it counterclockwise by
hand until slack is sufficient to remove the belt from the pulley.
Remove the old timing belt.
9. With a sprocket holding tool, Loosen both camshaft sprokets by rotating the bolt (17mm) counterclockwise. It is sufficient to have them loose; they do not need to be removed.
10. Install new idler pulleys: remove them by turning clockwise to loosen then counter clockwise to tighten. Tighten to 53N-m or 39 Ft Lbs. Loosely install a new belt tensioner.
11. Ensure that the high-pressure fuel pump pulley is oriented
Properly (see picture) and fit the new belt to the crankshaft pulley. Install a small vise grip at the crankshaft to hold the belt in place while installing the belt counter clockwise starting with the fuel pump, idler pulley, cam shaft sprockets, idler pulley, water pump and lastly over the newly installed timing belt tensioner.
12. With the new belt properly installed, tension the
timing belt with the tensioner as shown in the picture. If the proper
handle isn’t available, the tensioner can be moved with two 3mm hex
keys. Rotate the tensioner until the proper gap on the pulley is
achieved. Tighten the center fixing bolt to 30N-m or 22 Ft Lbs
13. With a sprocket holding tool, tighten both camshaft sprokets to 108N-m or 80 Ft-Lbs.
13. Check tensioner and reset proper tension as needed.
13. Remove the two camshaft pins and crankshaft hex key. Rotate the
Clockwise only 21mm socket wrench, 720 degrees, re-check the tensioner and reset proper tension as needed.
14. Reinstall the timing belt cover.
15. As needed install new accessory belt tensioner, idler pulleys and reinstall everything in steps 1 thru 3.

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:31 pm

MOST IMPORTANT STEPS ARE 9-13!!! The procedure is the same regardless of what kind on cam sprocket holding tool you are using. VM or VW or one you make yourself.

Any questions, let me know.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:54 pm

check to make sure the injection pump is in synch, we marked the cams, injection pump and the crank, prior to removing the old tb, made sure everything aligned back, it is only after 3 complete rotations of the crank did everything line up.

There has been discussion about the pulsing to pressurize the rail that has to be insynch. I do not know how to get it back in synch if it is off.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Doc,

did you reattach the electrical connector to the temperature sensor in the back of the thermostat housing?

That connector will cause erratic high idle conditons if it is not connected.

Racer

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:03 pm

This is what i was told about the pump timing:

Pump has 3 plungers and these events are timed to occur when the injectors are not firing. This is due to the pressure wave propagation in the fuel rail. Improper timing can lead to high or low fueling when an injector fires, depending on how the pressure wave lines up.

Not having the pump timed correctly will not effect the way the engine runs in the short term, but only may lead to problems as stated above.

Pump timing is not your problem.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:11 pm

Everything is lined up correctly at this point, except possibly the injection pump. It is exactly set as it has been for the life of the motor.

Is it possible if I rotated it enough times, that the pump marks eventually would line up when all the pins also align?

Thanks so much for all the input.

Racer, that plug is not connected yet.

DOC

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:16 pm

Connect that plug. I thought there was something wrong with mine, but I had air in fuel and I had missed that plug in the temp sensor in the back of the thermostat.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:50 pm

How did you get air in the fuel, turning it over by hand?

DOC

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

How did you get air in the fuel, turning it over by hand?

DOC

You don't get air in fuel by turning it over by hand? Only by loosing or a leak. That's why i don't think its air.

When you say everything is lined up? Did you use OEM VM cam locking pins?

Did you set the engine to 90 degrees past TDC, Verify the Crank mark is at 3:00, Verify with a flashlight and mirror that the flywheel timing hole is correctly lined up and not a cutout in the flywheel and install a pin or 6 mm? Did you then install the cam pins without moving the crank? Is everything lined up like this? YES or NO

If yes, Start the engine: Is the engine popping and blowing from the intake with the hose removed? If Yes= broken rockers. If NO= Air or injector problem.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:32 pm

KJjet, I think the problem is gone now that the temp sensor connector is back in place.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:48 pm

I'm glad I didn't mess with that plug on the t-stat. But then I did not replace the water pump this time

Initial Startup after TB Replacement

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