Please forgive me, this will be a bit long winded, but any help or assistance you all could provide would be greatly appreciated.

I was driving about 55 mph when the engine cut off on me. Had it towed to local dealership only to be told they want $600 just to tear it down to get to the timing belt. From there it could be timing belt, water pump, or possibly engine damage. I just dropped $2,500 installing 4 new injectors late last year and I'm now looking at another repair in the $2,000+ range.

So here is my predicament. I have a shop across town that will do the tear down for $250. If it is water pump and timing belt, total labor would be $600 for the tear down and parts install. I also have to add the $75 towing fee to this too.

Do I take my chances in paying for the tear down to determine what the issue truly is. I attempted to work a trade in for my CRD with the dealership yesterday for a 2010 RAV4, but quickly became infuriated when they offered me $500 for my trade in on my CRD and would only budge $500 on the sticker price of the RAV4. What a freakin joke.

I have to decide if I want to take the chance the engine didn't suffer damage and I just don't know enough about it to make that call. Obviously in the condition it sits now, it's not worth much at all, but I wasn't expecting the lowball offer of $500. Hell the new tires on the darn thing are worth more than that, not to mention the 4 new injectors I had put in last year.

I'm not very mechanically inclined, neither do I have the time to attempt any of the repairs on my own. What would you all do? Take the chance to see if it can be repaired, sell the POS as is, part it out, or tow it around town to a dealership that may be willing to offer more than scrap price?

My concern, which is obviously shared by the dealership, is the potential of engine damage from the timing belt skipping. How likely do you all think that catastrophic damage really occurred? Is the only way to make this determination to do the tear down? I am really at a loss as to what I should do.

Any suggestions or advice is welcomed and appreciated.

I take it you never did the timing belt service?

If it is the timing belt that broke, you are looking at quite the repair job. Paying a shop is gonna cost a small fortune....

You need to give more details.

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2005 Liberty CRD Limited
Light Khaki

No, timing belt service has not yet been done. I am at 100,212 miles and it was on the list to get done, but I'm still paying off the $2,500 I sunk into it getting the injectors replaced late last year.

Were are you located?
Maybe someone here on the forum can help you.

I'm not surprised at the low ball offer. Especially from a dealer.
You may get a little more if you sell it to an individual person.

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U.S. Army Retired

Where are you at?

The engine just cut off? I highly doubt that, were there any noises associated with it's failure to continue running?

The more details you can provide, the more help we can be.

Did anyone scan any codes, do you have more information?

Thanks.

While I'm talking, allow me to share this with you. This engine is designed to fail at the rockers and lifters rather than destroying a valve/rod/piston. Provided there aren't some serious bottom end issues (which are possible, I'm not trying to deceive you here) then you are pretty safe overall. The Rockers and Lifters are much cheaper now than they used to be but since you are at 100k miles and are going to probably be going in there anyways, you need to do your timing belt.

Just in parts you're looking at $500 for the Timing Belt Service (to do it right) and $350 for Rockers/Lifters.

Labor is the killer. Period.

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Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings

Thank you all for the replies, your help is much appreciated.

I am in Mobile, Al. All work has been done at dealerships but I've got an independent shop willing to do the teardown to the timing belt for $250 along with an additional $350 if timing belt / water pump need to be installed. If it's worse than that, I at least have an idea where he will be on labor.

As far as any noises associated with the break down, there were none that I could audibly hear. I had my CRD at the dealership a week ago this past Wednesday for an oil change. I drove to New Orleans on Thursday, Birmingham on Friday and drove back home on Sunday. Over this 700 mile drive, everything seemed like it was running fine. It broke down on me about 30 miles away from home, the engine literally just shut off, I had no control over steering, braking ect. My 1st thought was alternator, but all lights were on when trying to crank it over. After trying to get it to start after about a half hour, I gave up and called the tow truck

I asked the service advisor if they received any codes when hooking it up to the diagnostic and he told me they weren't able to hook it up without getting it running. I have no idea if this is true though and would think he's bs'ing me. My onboard diagnostic plug input was damaged at a dealership years ago, so I'm honestly not certain they even attempted to hook up the diagnostic. Other dealerships have temporary installed another part to run their tests, but it's doubtful they went through the trouble this time.

You can check the stored codes just by moving the key to the ON position.

Well if you didn't hear any loud noises or banging or clattering then I'm not sure it's a timing belt issue.

You need to watch the Youtube Video Sir Sam made of bleeding the fuel head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwGcWi3gE0

Try that and see if you're getting fuel first.

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Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings

You know, this is could potentially be the issue. I've had the issues with bad gas before and have had to use the primer pump to get it back up and running, but have never tried bleeding the fuel filter head. My Jeep is still at the service dept. at the dealership, but I paid for my service fee yesterday. I am trying to contact my service advisor to see if anyone tried doing this process. I'm gonna be highly agitated if I go down there after work, in the rain and fix my darn Jeep myself while it's sitting in their parking lot.

For what it's worth I think you need to slow down and consider possible causes before tearing into the engine. Mind you it's time to do the routine maintenance TB job anyway but for the engine to simply stop running with no "bad" sounds when it stopped sounds more like a fuel delivery or electrical problem than a TB issue.

Short term it's relatively easy to check the timing to see if it's ok. To do so you will likely need to remove the fan and fan shroud so you can get to the crank nut to turn the engine over (Clockwise only) and pull the 2 cam pin plugs. At this point the engine can be manually turned over until the crank pulley bolts are at 12/3/6/9 o'clock; I think but am not positive you should be able to see the small dimple adjacent to one one of the bolt heads without removal of the pulley - if so that bolt needs to be at 3 o'clock. Assuming you can see the dimple try inserting a 6mm hex key in the flywheel (see the 05 FSM timing belt section for how) and appropriate size hex keys (see my cam pin dimension post in the CRD tech section) in each of the cam holes (NOTE if they don't rotate the engine 1 full revolution of the crank and try again). NOTE if you cannot see that dimple you can remove the oil fill hole plug and watch the cam pin hole come by to determine where you are in the rotation cycle. If all 3 pins go in then timing is ok; if not... FYI under no circumstances try using allen keys for cam pins when actually doing the TB job. Doing this shouldn't take more than 1 hr.

If the timing is ok you need to identify why the engine stopped before doing the TB job. Start simple - ex. do you have a massive amount of air in the fuel filter head and work from there.

As to reading codes FYI the service adviser is dumb as a stump at best. The vehicle does not need to be running to pull stored codes all you need is 1) the proper code reader plugged into the port (that may be a problem for you if the port is damaged - how that happened escapes me and why the dealer that damaged it did not fix it is even stranger) and 2) the ignition key needs to work so the systems can be powered up but the vehicle not started. I will agree that there are certainly some data points (ex. transmission line pressure) that cannot be read unless the engine is running but that's not the same as pulling stored codes.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Key trick works on '05s; try it and write 'em down.

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Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

I agree with the others: when the timing belt breaks a 55 mph, a lot of bad noises should be expected as the crankshaft continues to turn the engine over and the pistons smack into the valves.

You clearly need to get the vehicle to somebody who knows a little bit about these engines, and you are not likely to find that person at a dealership.

And I'm suspicious of the need to replace the injectors, although that is water over the dam.

You said that you are able to crank it, but it will not start. If you had a broken timing belt, you would hear pistons hitting the valves, or more likely you would feel that, while cranking. If the belt had skipped one tooth, you would most likely still be able to start it, but it would run vary bad and die on you. At 100K, you most likely need all new rockers. It sounds like a fuel delivery issue. If the dealer is telling you they can't read the codes with the engine not running, you should not let them do anything else, they are obviously trying to rip you off, and have no clue how to fix it anyway. Check the fuel system.

Dealerships (especially the service writer droids) are incapable of properly diagnosing what day of the week it is.

If you didn't hear bad noises or feel some REALLY rough running right as the engine stopped - you don't have a skipped timing belt. The engine does not fail mechanically with any smooth or silent behavior. It will be as detectable to the driver as if you had driven off a cliff.

As far as your failure... It does strongly suggest the air in fuel, or a plugged fuel filter. Especially on the highway, that is exactly how one of my filters ate it - no warning, just a sudden loss of power and the engine quit.

I am in Savannah, and if you are willing to discuss my travel to you, I can validate your timing without removing virtually anything from the engine, especially if the engine will turn over. I can do the full timing job in about 3 hours, where the dealer will want to charge you a minimum of 5 hours for it... IF they have ever done one before and you (foolishly) trust them to get it right.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Once again, thank you all for the responses, they have been extremely helpful and may have possibly saved me thousands. I am having my crd towed to the independent shop across town. I've explained to the guy what was going on and he got online to do some research on my engine before agreeing to take the job. I also feel confident that he would utilize this site and you all's advice as a resource in trying to determine what the hell is going on.

I'm having it towed 1st thing Monday morning and would hope to know something by Tuesday afternoon. As soon as I receive a response, I'll update this thread.

I would contact Geordi and ask him to swing by and look at it or at least consult on it. His fees will probably save you hundreds of dollars in costs.

_________________
Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

Given the stated past history of bad fuel problems, I'd lean towards an algae or bacterial bloom clogging the filter, myself, but at any rate, I agree that if there were no bad noises it is unlikely that this failure was caused by rocker/TB issues.

_________________
Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

I talked to him today on the phone for a bit.

Based on our conversation, (this is a sum-up) the CRD was at about 50-55mph, not entirely certain whether the lights were on or not, but the engine just died at speed. Poof - off. No rough running, no loss of power before. He said he had had a fuel filter clog previously, to the point of foot-on-the-floor and only able to do 10mph. The worst fuel filter issue I had was about the same, so I can relate to that. This wasn't like that.

When he went to restart it, the temp gauge on the dash was doing strange things like pegging at the top end - To me, this seems like the bootup sequence wasn't completing, but I can't remember if the gauges normally do a full sweep on startup. It didn't crank over, he said it felt like it "wanted to" but didn't. He said it could be possible that the alternator is the cause, even with driving it so far recently.

At this point, my feeling is about 80% that this is an electrical problem, specifically the alternator has eaten it. My CRD behaved in a very similar fashion while I was in Virginia for a teaching job a couple years ago. It ran and drove fine, with no odd symptoms... And then it wouldn't start. I suspected the old battery, so I replaced that (it was 5 years old at that point)... And it ran great for about a month, then wouldn't start again. Turn the key, VRRrrrt. Try again, Pffft. Nada. The alternator was *barely* producing any power, and BTW - the pulley was shot anyway. Replaced alternator, charged battery, and the problem never resurfaced. Almost EXACTLY the same thing happened with my new 03 Jetta TDI right after I bought it. Driving long distances at highway speed, get to destination and stop... And it refuses to restart. Dead battery. Again replaced alternator (MUCH harder than on CRD), charged battery, and the problem is gone. On the CRD - If your lights are "pulsing" into the darkness in front of you... Your alternator is ON THE WAY OUT and / or the clutch pulley is failing. He couldn't remember if his lights had been pulsing.

It is entirely plausible to me that with so much long-distance driving recently, he finally drew the battery below the point where it could run the computer, which is why it just quit while at speed. I think if he had been driving it around on a lot of shorter trips, the starter would have sucked the battery flat a LOT quicker, and we wouldn't be talking about this as a major catastrophe question.

FYI: The dealership hasn't suggested even a HINT that the battery might be flat. The doors are operated from a different computer in the car, and might still be working just fine even with a very low battery. (not that they mentioned it anyway) As always, they hear hoofbeats and think mastodons.

Unlike the intelligence of the dealer service droids, I firmly believe this CRD is fixable.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

My timing belt jump/rocker damage had no noise that I remember. Just for what it's worth.

Anyway, did they not check to see if the battery was dead or at least try to jump it? If the alternator was dead I believe you could simply jump the car to see if it would start on battery.

The only other time my car shut off was air in the fuel filter. I would hope they checked something simple like that.

_________________
Low mileage 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD for sale.

Well it looks like at least a timing belt and who know's what from there. I had it towed to the shop across town and he was able to confirm that he was not able to turn the engine over manually. He also checked electronics and fuel delivery 1st and everything seemed to check out there.

He's going to do the tear down for me, hopefully today to determine if the timing belt is all I need or if it's water pump in addition to further engine damage. This is of course turning into my worst nightmare. I've got transportation arranged until Sunday, after that, I've either got to have my jeep fixed, find a rental, or buy a new car.

Mechanic said Chrysler wants $400 for the timing belt alone. I told him I can find it for much cheaper, but he will only warranty the parts he purchases. Even the Mopar belt is $209, half of what jeep charges.

Like I said, nightmare. I hope to know something by the end of the day regarding any engine damage. I'm crossing my fingers right now. If timing and water pump is all that's needed, I'll buy the kit from idparts and go from there.

And if I may, I would like to give a special thanks to Geordi for calling me and speaking with me for a half hour this past Sunday. I have been pleasantly surprised at how helpful you all have been with your advice, help and suggestions. You guys are the complete exact opposite than the rest of the internets, and for that I am grateful.

Let us know what it is and if your not willing to sink the cash in it that it will take to repair it let us on the board know also I am sure one of us will be willing to take it off your hands or help part it out to make some of your cash back. And that $500 offer from the dealer is laughable the long block is worth at least 3 times that used. And original body panels bring a premium off the KJs since there are so few sitting in wrecking yards.

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My CRD Build Thread
Soon to Come:more lights