CRD 911

libbycrd · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 1:00 pm

my ol lady was driving to school this morning in her crd, so called and said it was running wierd. the lightning bolt light came on then battery light came on, then abs, then well hell all of them. she is still driving at this point. no radio either. couple of miles down the road it finally dies! so i get there and try to start and nothing! dash lights yes but when you go to start it-nothing. the ETC under the hood is humming. odd i thought so i checked some forums got it to start up! she would only do 40 mph. all the lites are back on after about 1/2 mile still running though. next thing is it shuts off and starts up again while driving it did this for about 3 miles about every 5 sec. its like someone was turning the key off and on. oddest thing ever. it died again but never got it to start again.
i dont have a scanner. every place ive taken it to cant read it.
so is it the ETC that is causing all this or is there something else :banghead:

i have video of symptoms while driving on my phone if that helps

libbycrd · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 2:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6bKrd9KAg0

here is the video i took while driving!
ALL i am doing is driving and holding the throttle

please help

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 3:01 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by ETC but being stuck with a top speed of 40 mph sure sounds like "limp" mode. That is when the PCM detects a serious problem.
All those lights turning on and off seems like a loose wiring harness or connector somewhere.
Another possibility is that your alternator has gone bad and is not putting out enough voltage to keep systems alive.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 3:04 pm

First of all pull the connectors off the ECU spray heavily will WD40 and to the same to the ECU. Let it sit unplugged for awhile and have the Battery checked a Dieing battery in these Jeeps will cause them to do very odd things.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Can I assume by ETC you mean electronic throttle control?

Anyway looking at the video and what you say happened it appears as if the vehicle is loosing electrical power or as you say the key is being switched on/off which would explain the cycling of the lights and gauges.

Checking the ECU connections (just in front of firewall on drivers front fender and released by pivoting a lever) is worth doing but I'm not all that fond of WD-40, personal thing, as opposed to other spray lubes designed for electrical contacts.

If "her" CRD is an 06 you might look for chaffing on the wire bundle behind the fuel filter head otherwise:
1. get a good shop to load test the battery and test the alternator output
2. odd thought - check the ignition switch (left side of steering column) and the ignition switch actuator pin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5m31g0- ... plpp_video). When you turn the key it turns a plastic pin that runs under the steering column to the ignition switch. Normally when the pin goes bad you get a no start (can jump per viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574) or an intermittent no start but I wonder if a cracked pin could create a situation where even if the key is not touched the pin is actually switching the ignition on/off or to put it another way not holding the ignition switch in the on position all the time.

libbycrd · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 4:44 pm

she is an 05 per my sig.
i took off the ETC (throttle body) left it plugged in all it does is humm wont move the butterfly at all
maybe a problem? will it cause some of this crap?
my battery is good, ill take alternator to have tested.
it wont even crank over now.
dash lites are bright, i move key to start position and nothing! the dashlites flash
did the etc send signal to ecm to put in limp mode? scanner only way to fix???

METCRD · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 7:34 pm

By "throttle body" do you possibly mean the FCV (flow control valve) ?

Watching your video makes me think electrical.

e010584 · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 8:28 pm

I had the same symptoms when the alternator decoupler went to a freewheel mode and lost juice in the battery.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu May 23, 2013 11:22 pm

If you see fine, dark red dust on the alternator pulley, poster just before me nailed it. Autozone or Advance for a rebuilt alt.

DOC

geordi · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 12:14 am

Sounds suspiciously like the alternator has eaten it. The computer and car were behaving bizarrely because the computer doesn't like operating on the last dregs of power from the battery. Because diesels don't require a lot of power to run, unlike a spark ignition system, you theoretically could have been driving with a failed alternator for quite some time.

I'm rather surprised that the alternator lasted even 100k miles, my CRD didn't keep the alternator that long.

libbycrd · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 10:54 am

i took off the alternator and it does seem to be bad. gonna have it checked but pulley is free wheeling only catches every turn or so.
the ETC (throttle body) is $550 at the dealership. :furious:

took plug off ecm looks clean gonna reinstall with some dielectric grease

its the original alt.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 11:57 am

Ok, I think I understand what you are referring to - The CRD DOES NOT HAVE A THROTTLE BODY. It also does not have an "ETC" whatever that might be.

What you are thinking is a throttle body (Which only GAS engines have or need) is called the FCV, or Flow Control Valve. In Chrysler's computer, this is also called the "EGR Air Control Valve" and here is the biggest thing: IT IS NOT NEEDED AT ALL. In actuality, you don't want it.

Since you already have it removed from the engine, this is a good time to solve this "problem" device. Unscrew the two screws from the butterfly disc, and remove that disc entirely. Now put the FCV unit back onto your engine and forget it exists. IF you are running the ORM (Off Road Mod) which means you have your mass airflow sensor unplugged, the EGR valve will always be closed - which you want. Yes, you will have a check engine light because the sensor is unplugged. Many CRD owners have simply dealt with the light, or a tune from GDE or an SEGR device will cure the light from this "problem" that you are solving.

Meanwhile... It certainly sounds like the alternator clutch was the main failure. You can (in theory) get the clutch by itself for about $60 and just replace that... But with 100k miles on the entire alternator, do you want to? A complete alternator is about $150 at Autozone, but I would shop around and check to ensure you are getting a lifetime warranty. Some of the stores are starting to cheap out on the warranties, yet the parts are going down in quality. Isn't progress fun?

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 9:05 am

+1 on the alternator. The clutch pulley will give up on a moments notice, i.e. without warning. And yes, the computer needs to receive a certain amount of energy in order to act correctly.

If the battery is over a few years old, you may do well to replace it too. At the very least, make certain that it is charged to 12.8 volts before proceeding.

I have had this scenario happen on two (2) seperate occasions. On a good note, at least the alternator is cake to swap out. Go for the lifetime warranty unit.

libbycrd · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 10:35 am

Geordi-
So do I plug the fcv in?
I took the cover off cause it was humming, that caused the spring to launch out
If I take the butterfly out then it does nothing
I called it he ETC cause that's the name at the dealership
The ETC caused me to have the lightning bolt come on
I cycled the key then it fired up
Then I got the crazy dash. I would love not to have to buy the FCV it's $500
I have the maf unplugged and made block plates for the egr

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 8:53 pm

I left mine plugged in, with the FCV motor broken and the butterfly pulled. I'm not certain what the lightning bolt icon on your dash was, I can't say I ever got that with mine. At the same time, I never saw any difference in operation with the thing plugged in or unplugged, just a code when the computer decided it wasn't happy.

I'd leave it plugged in and go from there. At the same time, the weird electronic behavior was most likely due to the extreme low power from the failed alternator. I doubt you will see behavior like that again.

shanezt · **Joined:** Sat May 25, 2013 7:17 pm **Posts:** 2

geordi wrote:

I left mine plugged in, with the FCV motor broken and the butterfly pulled. I'm not certain what the lightning bolt icon on your dash was, I can't say I ever got that with mine. At the same time, I never saw any difference in operation with the thing plugged in or unplugged, just a code when the computer decided it wasn't happy.

I'd leave it plugged in and go from there. At the same time, the weird electronic behavior was most likely due to the extreme low power from the failed alternator. I doubt you will see behavior like that again.

if you are not running a throttle body (egr flow control valve) where are you getting vacuum from? is there an electric or engine driven pump? the whole point behind the throttle body is to generate vacuum to suck in egr gas, but I noticed the brake booster gets vacuum from the intake manifold. without a throttle body I would think you would lose vacuum brake assistance.

the "ETC" light he is speaking of is the electronic throttle control light. Chrysler has it on all vehicles equipped with an electric throttle body, even the 6.7 cummins.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 9:32 pm

shanezt wrote:

geordi wrote:

I left mine plugged in, with the FCV motor broken and the butterfly pulled. I'm not certain what the lightning bolt icon on your dash was, I can't say I ever got that with mine. At the same time, I never saw any difference in operation with the thing plugged in or unplugged, just a code when the computer decided it wasn't happy.

I'd leave it plugged in and go from there. At the same time, the weird electronic behavior was most likely due to the extreme low power from the failed alternator. I doubt you will see behavior like that again.

if you are not running a throttle body (egr flow control valve) where are you getting vacuum from? is there an electric or engine driven pump? the whole point behind the throttle body is to generate vacuum to suck in egr gas, but I noticed the brake booster gets vacuum from the intake manifold. without a throttle body I would think you would lose vacuum brake assistance.

the "ETC" light he is speaking of is the electronic throttle control light. Chrysler has it on all vehicles equipped with an electric throttle body, even the 6.7 cummins.

Actually - That light may be present on the dash, but that doesn't mean squat for a diesel. DIESELS DO NOT HAVE A THROTTLE PLATE. The engine does NOT generate vacuum because it is a turbocharged engine. While you are correct that the FCV flap is commanded to close to force the increase in exhaust gas flow - this has nothing to do with vacuum generation for the brakes. The only thing that our CRDs **might** have related to the initials of "etc" is Electronic Traction Control - and I don't believe that was a standard item either, because we have a 4-way transfer case. Just because the light exists on the dash, does not mean it is supported by the vehicle's features.

The CRD engine (also any other diesel engine, and I suspect all turbocharged engines) has a separate vacuum pump that is either driven electrically or through some mechanical means. My TDI has it driven directly by the camshaft. The AC system also requires vacuum for the blend doors.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 9:42 pm

shanezt wrote:

geordi wrote:

I left mine plugged in, with the FCV motor broken and the butterfly pulled. I'm not certain what the lightning bolt icon on your dash was, I can't say I ever got that with mine. At the same time, I never saw any difference in operation with the thing plugged in or unplugged, just a code when the computer decided it wasn't happy.

I'd leave it plugged in and go from there. At the same time, the weird electronic behavior was most likely due to the extreme low power from the failed alternator. I doubt you will see behavior like that again.

if you are not running a throttle body (egr flow control valve) where are you getting vacuum from? is there an electric or engine driven pump? the whole point behind the throttle body is to generate vacuum to suck in egr gas, but I noticed the brake booster gets vacuum from the intake manifold. without a throttle body I would think you would lose vacuum brake assistance.

the "ETC" light he is speaking of is the electronic throttle control light. Chrysler has it on all vehicles equipped with an electric throttle body, even the 6.7 cummins.

You must be new here, or at least new to Diesel engines.
Diesel engines do not have a throttle body and do not produce vacuum.
Our CRD engines have a vacuum pump driven off the crankshaft.
The butterfly valve mentioned is for the function of the EGR valve.
Yes, our CRD engine has an electronic throttle.
There is no throttle cable from the foot pedal to the engine.

shanezt · **Joined:** Sat May 25, 2013 7:17 pm **Posts:** 2

flash7210 wrote:

shanezt wrote:

geordi wrote:

I left mine plugged in, with the FCV motor broken and the butterfly pulled. I'm not certain what the lightning bolt icon on your dash was, I can't say I ever got that with mine. At the same time, I never saw any difference in operation with the thing plugged in or unplugged, just a code when the computer decided it wasn't happy.

I'd leave it plugged in and go from there. At the same time, the weird electronic behavior was most likely due to the extreme low power from the failed alternator. I doubt you will see behavior like that again.

if you are not running a throttle body (egr flow control valve) where are you getting vacuum from? is there an electric or engine driven pump? the whole point behind the throttle body is to generate vacuum to suck in egr gas, but I noticed the brake booster gets vacuum from the intake manifold. without a throttle body I would think you would lose vacuum brake assistance.

the "ETC" light he is speaking of is the electronic throttle control light. Chrysler has it on all vehicles equipped with an electric throttle body, even the 6.7 cummins.

You must be new here, or at least new to Diesel engines.
Diesel engines do not have a throttle body and do not produce vacuum.
Our CRD engines have a vacuum pump driven off the crankshaft.
The butterfly valve mentioned is for the function of the EGR valve.
Yes, our CRD engine has an electronic throttle.
There is no throttle cable from the foot pedal to the engine.

not new to diesels at all, I guess you just wont let go of the word difference. the egr flow control valve is indeed an "electronic throttle body". never said it was attached to a cable. diesel engines due in fact produce vacuum, as long as there is a restriction on the intake side (egr flow control valve/ another name for a throttle body). if you read my post you would have seen I said the only reason for the flow control valve is to generate vaccum to draw in egr gas. the only reason a diesel engine does not generate vacuum is the lack of a throttle body, so the VM, along with Cummins and many others, installed a flow control valve (electronic throttle body) in front of the egr flow. I understand its a play on words, you say flow control valve, I say throttle body, they are one in the same. unlike a gas engine the throttle body on a diesel has no relation to the apps (accelerator pedal position sensor), or drivers right foot. we are saying the same thing just different words.

you are correct, after reading through dealerconnect, I was mistaken as to where the brake booster plugged into. it plugs into a line at the intake not the intake itself.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 7:34 am

I accept your explanation.

CRD owners speak a unique language.

Most of which should not be spoken around young ladies
and would make a sailor blush.

CRD 911

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