CRD rocker arm wear...more info

JieselDeep · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:10 pm

I have not checked the turbo shaft yet. It's on the list, but the service manager claimed that they had checked that out as part of their pre-sale inspection. We'll see if they really did!

The Jeep dealership has been servicing it throughout its entire life; the original owner (I'm the second owner) got a premium service contract with it, so any little problem was covered, and he didn't have that many problems, from the looks of the service records. It's been a mostly trouble-free jeep, per the owner's cousin (a salesman at the dealership) and I have the previous owner's contact info (left in the glovebox by the detailer who didn't thumb through the owner's manual!) along with the original service contract and one of the service summary sheets.

I had been searching for a liberty CRD for the better part of two years and have suddenly seen 3 in 3 months now...one was a repeat that I had seen and test driven 12 months ago, back from its tour of dealerships around the state owned by the same auto group. That one was "deeply" discounted, but I didn't believe the salesman when he said someone else was interested in it. The second has a bad head gasket and they weren't willing to come low enough for me to take the risk, and the third, I spotted the day they took it in on trade, and test drove it before it had been detailed or cleaned up at all! The interior door panels were greasy and it smelled badly of B.O. They sure cleaned it up pretty though!

When I get the hose, I'll check the turbo...or if I get off work when it's still light out, I may be brave enough to pull the hose and see what I find!

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:42 am

groelzj wrote:

I have not checked the turbo shaft yet. It's on the list, but the service manager claimed that they had checked that out as part of their pre-sale inspection.

Yeah, of course they did, and then they just put that ripped hose right back on there!

Big Montana · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:26 pm

dirtmover wrote:

groelzj wrote:

I have not checked the turbo shaft yet. It's on the list, but the service manager claimed that they had checked that out as part of their pre-sale inspection.

Yeah, of course they did, and then they just put that ripped hose right back on there!

Oh no. That's a good point. I hate car dealerships.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:13 pm

MAF is 19 at idle

JieselDeep · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2013 1:48 pm

After replacing the hoses I'm at 16.5 at 123 degrees. 1200' elevation. Looking good!

Jon

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2013 2:18 am

Newbie Q: Will this (costly) app find the same parameters as Torque but on the iPhone: http://www.palmerperformance.com/produc ... /index.php

It appears so here: "Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow Sensor" http://www.palmerperformance.com/suppor ... c_pids.php

arengant · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2013 2:52 am

groelzj wrote:

After replacing the hoses I'm at 16.5 at 123 degrees. 1200' elevation. Looking good!

Jon

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2013 8:05 am

SFHLibertyCRD wrote:

Newbie Q: Will this (costly) app find the same parameters as Torque but on the iPhone: http://www.palmerperformance.com/produc ... /index.php

It appears so here: "Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow Sensor" http://www.palmerperformance.com/suppor ... c_pids.php

I've not tried it but the reviews aren't that great. I did, however, try their PC program with a USB interface and didn't have any success with the Jeep.

groelzj wrote:

After replacing the hoses I'm at 16.5 at 123 degrees. 1200' elevation. Looking good!

Jon

Yeah, that's a lot better. My only concern now would be how long that vehicle has been sucking unfiltered air for. I'd regularly monitor MAF for ongoing signs of wear.

Jsbarks · **Joined:** Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:42 pm **Posts:** 13

15.5 g/s @ 650 ft760rpm. Sounds low?

TJ2 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:42 am

Finally got mine done today and it was 15.4 g/s at 4400 ft. elevation and ambient air temp in low 90's. I may check hoses, but am quite sure there aren't any leaks. I'm feeling ok about things, although I'd appreciate any feedback.

These are interesting machines. Some run perfectly with almost no maintenance. . . some fall apart with excellent care.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:20 am

The higher the elevation, the lower the number, right? RPM is crtical for comparison. Also, must be fully warm. I got 17 at sea level.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:15 am

TJ2 wrote:

Finally got mine done today and it was 15.4 g/s at 4400 ft. elevation and ambient air temp in low 90's. I may check hoses, but am quite sure there aren't any leaks. I'm feeling ok about things, although I'd appreciate any feedback.

Based on your altitude your going to see numbers about 11-12% lower than those of us at sea level.

TJ2 wrote:

These are interesting machines. Some run perfectly with almost no maintenance. . . some fall apart with excellent care.

Agreed, but I'm also starting to suspect that we have an unusual number of forum members that are suffering from Münchausen syndrome by proxy.

DOC4444 wrote:

The higher the elevation, the lower the number, right? RPM is crtical for comparison. Also, must be fully warm. I got 17 at sea level.

Yes, the number will go down with elevation. Note that IAT also makes a difference to the tune of about 1mg/str per °F.

I don't know if the original range that Keith specified captures these variabilities or if we should adjust the target range to account for pressure and temperature.

arbby · **Joined:** Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:22 pm **Posts:** 27

15.5 g/s @ 650 ft @~ 85F

760rpm.

Anyone have a link to the original numbers from Keith?

Glend · **Posted:** Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:09 am

Checked mine,

18.5 g/s at 75 feet above sea level, air temp was about 62F
Idle was 750 RPM, engine was warm.

I believe that equates to 740 mg/str if I worked it out correctly.

Found this conversion forumla on the VW TDI forum:

(g/s) x60 = g/min
(g/min) x1000 = mg/min
(mg/min) / RPM = mg/revolution
(mg/rev) / 2 (because there are 2 strokes per revolution) = mg/stroke.

I have to ask, are there not 'other' factors that can contribute to actual figures were measuring such as the state of the air filter, and soot buildup in the intake elbow and intakes. Assuming for a moment that everyone is running the GDE tune, so no further soot build up, but whatever is already there before you turned off EGR, is likely to be restricting flow to some degree unless you have torn into the intake side and cleaned it all up. I know I have cleaned mine out as best I could (FCV, intake elbow removed and cleaned right up to as far as I could reach with a spoon and checked with my inspection camera) there wasn't much past the removable intake elbow but there is probably some left in further into the intake tract. The only way to get the best possible number is to pull the intake cover off and clean out everything as far as possible - isn't it?

I worry that obsessing about the g/s number may not be painting a true picture of where any potential problem could be (like intake obstruction). Can we assume that valve lift (cam wear) is an issue when we don't know the X factor value for intake obstruction?

TJ2 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:00 am

Fascinating thread and, who knows, it may turn out to be useful. I rushed to get this done as I'm getting ready for a rather long road trip. Alberta National Parks and over to coastal BC.

Dirtmover, +11% for 4400 ft elevation puts me over 17. I wonder how to factor in 94* F ambient air temp? I wonder if my adjusted value would be around 18 if taken at 60*F.

My knowledge of Science is mainly focused on Astronomy, mircobiology and transference of thermal energy (that's the bulk of the Utah sixth grade science core

DM, I don't get the Munchhausen comment??? A list member read my MAF values. He commented two (or three) times how clean my engine was. It is my uninformed opinion that guys who bought these machines based on cheap price may have gotten exactly what they paid for.

I'll get back with you all maybe during, certainly after the trip even if I return on a Greyhound Bus. Thanks one and all for the great info.

PS Glend, you make excellent points, as always. I guess my immediate concern is having my rockers disintegrate when I'm 2,000 miles from home.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:40 am

Ok I just read this very long thread. Now I have a few concerns. I have had My CRD since just under 38,000 miles. as far as I know the first owner did his own oil changes but with what I have no idea. I changed over to Shell Rotella T6 5W40 right away and been changing it about every 6,250 since. I did the orm mod right away too. I installed a Provent 200 oil separator at 41,000 miles and got the GDE ECO tune some where around 50,000 - 55,000 I cant remember exactly now. My oil stays clean now fairly long to close to the end of my change interval so is there something I need to do different to ensure a good long life to the engine?

I thought I was doing what was most realistically the best I could do up till now. I even had Blackstone labs test my oil and its always been good with them telling me I can go to 8,000 miles on the oil but I have not. Should I change to a 10W oil?

I would really value an opinion from Keith here. I plan to keep my jeep as long as possible and its my daily driver too.

I should get one of those things to use with the torque app too.

ech0sh4y · **Posted:** Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:22 pm

Just tested mine after install of GDE hot tune and samco hoses. It was 66 degrees F out and oshkosh is about 800ft above sea level. Here is my readings. Is this in spec?

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:12 pm

I would say you are right on the edge. How many miles on the rig? I assume full EGR function has been going on until just recently with the installation of a GDE tune? I would suggest changing engine oil and filter right away, then again in 1000 miles, then every 2000 miles thereafter until the oil takes at least 3000 miles before it turns opaque black after a change. Hopefully, you will be able to keep these rockers from going over the edge.

I would check and log the MAF numbers every couple weeks at idle at FOT and look for a drop. If you see a sudden drop of .5 or more, I would shut it off and keep it off until you have a chance to change the rockers.

DOC

ech0sh4y · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:06 am

Thank you for the reply! I will defiantly follow you suggestion on oil changes and keep track of the MAF reading. There is about 72k miles. I had the ORM since about 50k. And recent GDE tune. I hope it is not to late!

ech0sh4y · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:07 am

Actually is map the same as maf reading? Maybe I am reading the wrong values?

CRD rocker arm wear...more info

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