On a cold start - sweet, light exhaust smoke

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:54 am

I'm the original owner and over the weekend I've changed the fuel filter. I've got 111K on it and the timing belt has been replaced. When I first start it up after the glow plug LED extinguishes, it takes a few cranks and a white cloud of exhaust on the initial few seconds. I give it a little gas and no more fumes. It also seem about ready to die the first few minutes of driving as I come to stops. Afterwards it seems as if everything is hunky dory.

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:56 am

Cold starts are rough on diesels. Plug in your block heater. You can also buy a timer that turns the block heater on approximately 2 hours prior to your coming to start it fairly cheaply. I would suggest that to alleviate your cold start woes.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:59 am

Is the coolant level in the tank dropping?

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:02 am

Hexus wrote:

Cold starts are rough on diesels. Plug in your block heater. You can also buy a timer that turns the block heater on approximately 2 hours prior to your coming to start it fairly cheaply. I would suggest that to alleviate your cold start woes.

Thanks, but I don't believe it is that cold yet. High 30s / low 40s

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:03 am

CATCRD wrote:

Is the coolant level in the tank dropping?

Yikes, good thought, I'll have to check on that.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:09 pm

Mine "farts" for a few seconds, and puts out a little smoke when started from dead cold, as in sitting all night, when below about 45 degrees. Always has. My other CRD did it when I had that back in 2006-2008? My TDI did it from new. It is normal. That said, if your coolant level is dropping, you have other issues... if not, don't worry about it unless you have a faulty glow plug system component(s)...

Brianawd · **Joined:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:59 pm **Posts:** 130

White smoke can mean a few things.

Injector going bad
Low compression caused by bad rings, Glazed cylinder walls, Bad valve seats causing a leak.
Water in fuel or from head gasket/Bad liner orings.
Weak glow plugs.

If the issue does go away after its warm I would look more to carbon build up around the rings.

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:45 am

I did have major work done over the summer.

Service Description: Found internal engine damage. Camshafts very worn, piston rings locked with carbon build up.,PISTON RINGS, CAMSHAFTS, LIFTERS, and TURBO - Remove and Replace,Clean and Repair Injectors

Timing belt, pulleys and water pump were replaced as well.

I now have about 10K miles on it. I brought it by the shop last night for the missing weather striping between the firewall and hood. Plenty of rain 2 weeks ago, caused the passenger side to flood with water. As I investigated the leak, I found the weather strip was missing. I'm assuming that was the source and it was already perpetually loose, so I'm guessing the garage put it aside and didn't put it back. I need to figure a time to leave it with them to try and resolve this issue. Could it be a simple (relatively - quick) if it is the head gasket? It is my DD.

I'm also wanting to upgrade the suspension from all stock. I don't want to put more money into this thing if it won't last me. Especially after the work previously done, I'm hoping it's just the gasket (if anything), given that it only "farts." Nor have I seen the coolant drop. Wouldn't water in fuel introduce a more pronounced noise / failure ?

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:35 am

jkbkwarner wrote:

I did have major work done over the summer.

Service Description: Found internal engine damage. Camshafts very worn, piston rings locked with carbon build up.,PISTON RINGS, CAMSHAFTS, LIFTERS, and TURBO - Remove and Replace,Clean and Repair Injectors

Timing belt, pulleys and water pump were replaced as well.

I now have about 10K miles on it. I brought it by the shop last night for the missing weather striping between the firewall and hood. Plenty of rain 2 weeks ago, caused the passenger side to flood with water. As I investigated the leak, I found the weather strip was missing. I'm assuming that was the source and it was already perpetually loose, so I'm guessing the garage put it aside and didn't put it back. I need to figure a time to leave it with them to try and resolve this issue. Could it be a simple (relatively - quick) if it is the head gasket? It is my DD.

I'm also wanting to upgrade the suspension from all stock. I don't want to put more money into this thing if it won't last me. Especially after the work previously done, I'm hoping it's just the gasket (if anything), given that it only "farts." Nor have I seen the coolant drop. Wouldn't water in fuel introduce a more pronounced noise / failure ?

Sounds like someone did not know what they were doing. Piston rings "locked" with carbon buildup? Possible if someone did not use synthetic oil and did long OCI's. My guess is that the engine needed rockers and lifters, run synthetic and it'd have been fine. That is the first CRD engine I have seen that needs rings from such an issue. Older diesel VW's did this with dino oil from time to time, but the CRD? Who did this work? Sounds like the re-ringed the engine.

As for the leak in the cabin... you may want to check the AC drain. They are known to plug and cause this problem from water coming in from outside... not just condensation from the AC. Also... if you have a sunroof, check the drains for that. They, too, can plug and flood the inside.

Brianawd · **Joined:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:59 pm **Posts:** 130

So from what I read they pulled the bottom end apart and re ringed the motor. New rings on old liners not the best idea in the world. The liners already have wear. Then they ball hone or 3 stone hone to get some new cross hatching on the liners. In turn they just open up the Piston to wall clearance more. That then opened up your ring gap. So what I think is going on is when its cold your not burning all the diesel. Once it warms up and the piston expand with heat and it seals up better.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:07 pm

Brianawd wrote:

So from what I read they pulled the bottom end apart and re ringed the motor. New rings on old liners not the best idea in the world. The liners already have wear. Then they ball hone or 3 stone hone to get some new cross hatching on the liners. In turn they just open up the Piston to wall clearance more. That then opened up your ring gap. So what I think is going on is when its cold your not burning all the diesel. Once it warms up and the piston expand with heat and it seals up better.

If the liners were within spec, there is no trouble in reusing them. However, if what they say is actually true... and the rings were carboned up... the carbon will build up and continue to press the rings outward and can, in extreme cases, cause the cylinder walls to wear in some engines. I have not heard of this happening on a CRD yet. I suppose it is possible if the engine was very neglected and improper oil was used. If synthetic oil was used, this would not happen. So either they are not telling the truth, they do not know what they are doing, or this engine was grossly neglected, or all of the above. The cam wear tells me that the rockers were shot, probably from having a functioning EGR still, and not changing the oil often enough, OR neglecting to use synthetic and having really long OCI's. Hard to say.

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:34 pm

I have to admit a bit of neglect on my part for not changing the oil more frequently, but I've always used synthetic. I did have a dealer change it a few times. "Every other change is free," from the dealer I bought it from. But the paid oil change paid for the free oil change (and then some), but the "free" oil change didn't include the cost of their charge for the filter.

I've gotten 10K miles on it since and I don't see smoke other than a hard acceleration, which I rarely do. As far as the EGR, I've done the ORM, since it would put it in limp mode at random times and doesn't that disable the EGR?

Will the engine get worse if the work that's been supposed has affected the cylinder walls? Or will this be a gentle slope to failure?

I hope my negligence and their work won't bring my Jeep to an early grave :grim:

I have dreams of making it the off-road machine it could be :JEEPIN:

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:29 am

It's been noted that the ORM does reduce some soot, but not nearly as much as originally thought. The only true fix is to adjust the tuning of the vehicle so it uses less or no EGR.

I know there is more than one option out there, but most of us have chosen Green Diesel Engineering.

If you choose them, go ahead and get the device as well as you'll be able to scan and clear your fault codes, and the tune will be stored on it forever more in case a dealer decides "something isn't right" with your ECM.

There are a couple tunes and if you buy "Tune A" and later decide you want "Tune B" you can do so for $50.

The EGR in that vehicle is going to cause issues, period.

Brianawd · **Joined:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:59 pm **Posts:** 130

MRausch82 wrote:

Brianawd wrote:

So from what I read they pulled the bottom end apart and re ringed the motor. New rings on old liners not the best idea in the world. The liners already have wear. Then they ball hone or 3 stone hone to get some new cross hatching on the liners. In turn they just open up the Piston to wall clearance more. That then opened up your ring gap. So what I think is going on is when its cold your not burning all the diesel. Once it warms up and the piston expand with heat and it seals up better.

If the liners were within spec, there is no trouble in reusing them. However, if what they say is actually true... and the rings were carboned up... the carbon will build up and continue to press the rings outward and can, in extreme cases, cause the cylinder walls to wear in some engines. I have not heard of this happening on a CRD yet. I suppose it is possible if the engine was very neglected and improper oil was used. If synthetic oil was used, this would not happen. So either they are not telling the truth, they do not know what they are doing, or this engine was grossly neglected, or all of the above. The cam wear tells me that the rockers were shot, probably from having a functioning EGR still, and not changing the oil often enough, OR neglecting to use synthetic and having really long OCI's. Hard to say.

I willing to bet money they did not measure the liners before honing them. I have seen tech where I used to work go to town honing a cylinder to the point the open it up to much.

For the OP. I would just drive it the way it is. Only way to really tell what the issue is would be to do a leak down test. If it was mine. I would just make sure I change the Oil every 5k. Chances are it will run fine for the rest of its life. May just have some blowby. No big deal.

On a cold start - sweet, light exhaust smoke

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