Tranny bit the dust

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

It appears that the new TQ entered production on November 3, 2005 by inference from the TSB. The TSB that replaces the TQ, pump, cooler and other hardware only applys to vehicles with build dates prior to November 3, 2005. It specifically mentions both 05 and 06 model years built prior to then.

My transmission has a date code of 0545, which I believe is February 14, 2005. Vehicle build date was March 1, 2005. I incorrectly stated February 25th earlier.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat May 13, 2006 8:57 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

alljeep wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

That TSB tells me something changed on the tranny line on November 3, 2005.

From my service manual parts list issued in September of 2004, page 287 of 463 individually dated August 27, 2004:

Quote:

Sales Codes:
[DGQ]=5 Speed Automatic Transmission - [5-45RFE]

5143 976AA TRANSMISSION KIT, Automatic
4736 454AA TORQUE CONVERTER

This is for the turbo diesel engine code listed. The part number in the replacement TSB is a kit listed as part number:

68000336AA Kit, Torque Converter (includes screws)

So, how do we verify the actual torque converter in the "Kit"???

Found this on another site, owner posted torque converter and other hardware parts list when his was replaced - February 06 before the latest TSB was issued:

PARTS QTY FP-NUMBER DESCRIPTION
1 5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009
1 4736582-AD CONVERTER 99000000
4 1949765 SCREW HEX 9004005
1 5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005
1 5010884-AA SEALER RT 1081003
1 5013470-AC FILTER PKG 21170002
1 4799662 FILTER TR 21170001

The TQ kit number from TSB 21-009-06 is
TQ kit 68000336AA
pump 05073004AD
cooler 05183561AA

Looks like the torque converter part number has changed from the original factory part number, and TSB 21-009-06 is using the same part numbers Chrispitude listed back in February. Looks like his RRT fix became TSB 21-009-06.

Check this out, a THIRD torque converter part number from chyrslerpartsdirect.com:

Quote:

Partnumber 4736454AA was superceded!
Old Partnumber: 4736454AA
New Partnumber: 5175969AA

That's what it pulled up when I entered the original part number from my 2004 dated service manual.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

PN 4799662 is for the spin-on cooler return filter only, not the main sump filter. If they are only replacing the cooler return filter on the TSB and not the main sump, it would be incredibly short sighted. I don't see another part number for the main sump filter in the TSB however.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat May 13, 2006 9:19 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

PN 4799662 is for the spin-on cooler return filter only, not the main sump filter. If they are only replacing the cooler return filter on the TSB and not the main sump, it would be incredibly short sighted. I don't see another part number for the main sump filter in the TSB however.

Yeah, I fought like heck to get them to do the oil return filter TSB, and a week later they replaced it with an updated one to do both filters. There was also a "Customer Satisifaction Campaign for all 2006 models (E16 I think) to do the same thing, just one oil return filter and not the main sump. So a bunch of us were screwed... Check this out:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... php?t=7918

sirroco · **Joined:** Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:59 pm **Posts:** 29

My 05 CRD with a build date of 5-05 now has 4170 miles. I"ve had 2 Egr throttle valves replaced, the ECU/TCM reflash and the tranny filter upgrade with both filters replaced all with 3727 miles. I'm planning a 2100 mile trip and am wondering if I can proceed with confidence that I will not be stranded somewhere between Florida and New Jersey. I only experienced the delay from start to reverse on less than a handfull of times as I always allowed time for the torque converter to fill and engine to warm up. I've never experienced the shutter nor have I towed with it. With these updates being completed at that low of mileage am I still a candidate for the torque converter failure? Since the reflash I feel that the shift is not as defined and feels like it wants to slip into gear. It does feel more responsive if my acceleration is more agressive.Is this common, less aggressive acceleration less responsive shift? The shifting of my pathfinder seems to always be the same no matter what the situation. I imagine the dealership will not do anything until it either fails or if it becomes a recall isssue. This TSB that some are talking about regarding TC replacement is this only if the vehicle come in with major tranny failure?

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 5:08 pm

Yours sounds pretty good to me, no stutter, sounds like a ccv filter would be in order, but nothing that I would
not go on a road trip with. Many here would trade with you I would imagine, drive it with confidence till you have
more than what you describe here.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 5:23 pm

sirroco wrote:

Since the reflash I feel that the shift is not as defined and feels like it wants to slip into gear. It does feel more responsive if my acceleration is more agressive.Is this common, less aggressive acceleration less responsive shift? The shifting of my pathfinder seems to always be the same no matter what the situation.

Wish you had a way to tell my dealer that I'm not imagining this. Hammer it, shifts fine. Baby it, all kinds of wild things happen including gear hunting and downshifting into nothing. About cost me my Jeep the other night, missed a concrete wall by about a foot by the time I had regained control.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I wouldn't worry about it. Mine had the stutter from the first few months, only it was violent shudder at times. Sounds like yours is in better shape. I never had the delayed engagement issue. Not that it matters now :-)

I'd rather get this taken care of now instead of 65K miles down the road.

Besides, what's the worst that could happen ?

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 5:51 pm

There may be a TC in my future. I have had the flash but not the filters. I have only experienced one case where after sitting overnight plus it seemed a little slow at lock in reverse right after start up. I have had some of the stutter issue at between 55 and 60 but not always.

Today I was doing my Mom thing and went to town to get her some Chinese food to go. Upon my return I backed down a slight hill out of the parking slot stopped, shifted into drive, took my foot off the brake and promptly drifted backward about 4 feet. I braked again and the tranny found first then off we went. I thought I experienced the same thing last night but the slope that time was rather gentle. My transfer case seems to have a leak too so we will be visiting the dealer early in the week.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 6:05 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

There may be a TC in my future. I have had the flash but not the filters. I have only experienced one case where after sitting overnight plus it seemed a little slow at lock in reverse right after start up. I have had some of the stutter issue at between 55 and 60 but not always.

Today I was doing my Mom thing and went to town to get her some Chinese food to go. Upon my return I backed down a slight hill out of the parking slot stopped, shifted into drive, took my foot off the brake and promptly drifted backward about 4 feet. I braked again and the tranny found first then off we went. I thought I experienced the same thing last night but the slope that time was rather gentle. My transfer case seems to have a leak too so we will be visiting the dealer early in the week.

Did it launch when it caught? Mine did it the opposite direction, but it appears to involves tilting the Jeep from front to rear and changing directions. The expressway ramp incident was downhill and around a tight right hand curve, completely missed the downshift. When it caught, it spun me right around.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 6:24 pm

RFCRD wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

There may be a TC in my future. I have had the flash but not the filters. I have only experienced one case where after sitting overnight plus it seemed a little slow at lock in reverse right after start up. I have had some of the stutter issue at between 55 and 60 but not always.

Today I was doing my Mom thing and went to town to get her some Chinese food to go. Upon my return I backed down a slight hill out of the parking slot stopped, shifted into drive, took my foot off the brake and promptly drifted backward about 4 feet. I braked again and the tranny found first then off we went. I thought I experienced the same thing last night but the slope that time was rather gentle. My transfer case seems to have a leak too so we will be visiting the dealer early in the week.

Did it launch when it caught? Mine did it the opposite direction, but it appears to involves tilting the Jeep from front to rear and changing directions. The expressway ramp incident was downhill and around a tight right hand curve, completely missed the downshift. When it caught, it spun me right around.

That must have been an eye opener and possibly some stain remover too. No, mine didn't catch until I had my foot on the brake and was stopped again. I was just backing up in a parking lot though not near as exciting as your ride. Perhaps you sould sell tickets or maybe your mother in law has a bad heart and you could just offer to ride her around a lot. Just kidding....mother's day you know. :wink:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 14, 2006 7:06 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

There may be a TC in my future. I have had the flash but not the filters. I have only experienced one case where after sitting overnight plus it seemed a little slow at lock in reverse right after start up. I have had some of the stutter issue at between 55 and 60 but not always.

Today I was doing my Mom thing and went to town to get her some Chinese food to go. Upon my return I backed down a slight hill out of the parking slot stopped, shifted into drive, took my foot off the brake and promptly drifted backward about 4 feet. I braked again and the tranny found first then off we went. I thought I experienced the same thing last night but the slope that time was rather gentle. My transfer case seems to have a leak too so we will be visiting the dealer early in the week.

Did it launch when it caught? Mine did it the opposite direction, but it appears to involves tilting the Jeep from front to rear and changing directions. The expressway ramp incident was downhill and around a tight right hand curve, completely missed the downshift. When it caught, it spun me right around.

That must have been an eye opener and possibly some stain remover too. No, mine didn't catch until I had my foot on the brake and was stopped again. I was just backing up in a parking lot though not near as exciting as your ride. Perhaps you sould sell tickets or maybe your mother in law has a bad heart and you could just offer to ride her around a lot. Just kidding....mother's day you know. :wink:

Unfair to blame this entirely on Jeep. Afterall it was raining and I forgot that it is imparative to drive in 4WD in the rain with the F@%#$ factory Goodyear tires. Assuming Jeep steps up and honors their warranty (don't end up in a lemon law suit) tires have to be next before I kill myself in this thing.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Dealer called - so far, they found a destroyed torque converter. Still working on getting it apart, as they are extremely busy. This might take a little time. I'm a little surprised, as I have not had any trouble except for the occasional lurching, which was temporarily remedied by 2 different flashes. Never had any trouble with it failing to disengage at stop lights before last Friday. It seems its first serious problem was its last time before an early death. Other than that, no problems whatsoever in shifting. What surprises me is the early death with virtually no warning signs.

Parky · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 6:05 pm

So I get my CRD back tomorrow. It has been at the dealer since Thursday. This is what I got: New TCM, new Torque Converter, new tranny oil pump, new trans cooler (which I believe is built into the radiator, so I really get a new radiator). I hope everything works

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Parky wrote:

So I get my CRD back tomorrow. It has been at the dealer since Thursday. This is what I got: New TCM, new Torque Converter, new tranny oil pump, new trans cooler (which I believe is built into the radiator, so I really get a new radiator). I hope everything works

When you see the paperwork, if you would, check the part number on the new torque converter. We can keep a list of the updated part numbers as they are replaced.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

In looking at TSB 21-009-06, they replace the TQ, tranny pump, tranny cooler, flush the system, add new fluid and install 2 new filters. It appears they are concerned that debris, metallic and other, has and will continue to circulate throughout the pump and new TQ, and destroy the new parts. So the one component that would be extremely sensitive to debris that isn't replaced? The valve body - the part that uses springs, small cylinders and check valves to shift the transmission gears and clutches. So for discussion, how does DCX think the valve body will escape debris contamination? They must be fairly confident that it won't self destruct - it would just cost them more to replace it all again.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 10:01 pm

Can't say I'm a car expert but this Jeep came with two trans filters. One normal filter and one for the trans cooler return. Is this the only vehicle with a cooler return filter? If it is, maybe they had questions about the trans in the first place. That's why they didn't replace your whole trans. The filter(supposedly) stopped all debris from entering your valve body so they just replace what's contaminated and/or plugged with debris. Design wise it's kinda smart. Wish they would do the same for a/c systems. Anyone else know of a non-commercial vehicle with this set-up?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 10:13 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Can't say I'm a car expert but this Jeep came with two trans filters. One normal filter and one for the trans cooler return. Is this the only vehicle with a cooler return filter? If it is, maybe they had questions about the trans in the first place. That's why they didn't replace your whole trans. The filter(supposedly) stopped all debris from entering your valve body so they just replace what's contaminated and/or plugged with debris. Design wise it's kinda smart. Wish they would do the same for a/c systems. Anyone else know of a non-commercial vehicle with this set-up?

Would like to see this one apart. 2 filter setup sounds like the setup in the Allison World Trans. I would like to have a trans temp gauge in mine about now. Just a gut hunch that my trans is running to the hot side when it's acting stupid. Classic sign of partial cooler line (or cooler return filter) blockage.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The oil filter return also has a bypass valve - it's specifically designed to allow oil to go around the clogged filter in order to keep the tranny from burning up. However, if debris is already in the sump, debris will also end up circulating throughout the entire system, including the valve body.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I would like to have a trans temp gauge in mine about now.

It's ironic - the 545RFE already has a temperature sensor inside - I can read the temps on my 02 45RFE with Autotap. With stock tranny cooling, in summertime, tranny temps were as high as 210F. Stock cooling on the 02's is an in-tank radiator cooler. I added an auxillary air tranny cooler and dropped tranny temps to 165-170F range. Too bad DCX didn't use the internal tranny temp sensor for gauge output - its used to control which of the 5 or 6 temperature shift maps is used by the TCM. When I dropped the temps on my 02, shift quality dramatically improved.

Tranny bit the dust

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