Not starting still (was Air getting into filter head)

Billwill · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:09 am

RTTT265 wrote:

Ours is an 03 export. Looking at changing the rear lines very soon the front line to filter has a crimp on it.

Ours would never bleed. So put a brand new racor and filter from marine shop on it. Bleeds well but after you start and run it takes 6 plunges to go hard again, normal? Maybe rear fuel line.

So far have replaced split injector washer, spitting.

Today relaced alternator decoupler to get rid of chirping noise. Ended up holding old pulley and alternator in vice and air hammering 10mm clockwise to get it off. Pain in the booty job.

The thing I cant seem to fix is a miss when warmed up. Only top gear, cruising or on hills like its running on 3, goes down a gear seems fine.

was thinking of the injector spill test next, maybe after rear fuel lines. Then ill give up

My 2002 Export 2.5 CRD also lost power at WOT going up hills.
I disabled the EGR by pulling one of the thin vacuum pipes off the Vacuum Solenoid, screwing a small self-tapping screw into the plastic nipple and replacing the hose over the screw.

Give this a try if you have not already disabled the EGR...our Export models do not post any codes using this method! :wink:

Have you cleaned the MAP sensor recently?

RTTT265 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:34 am

Had it blocked unblocked it recently, will block it again

Cleaned MAP when I got it, but I think it was that bad, it's past it, was going to get another

It does sometimes have this flat spot like no gas at all on take off. So I'm thinking air could still be an issue

Every time I think I have fixed it I can drive it 15 min no issues then it starts missing again maybe crank fails when hot. Dunno

Not sure if air in system or faulty injector would get worse when warmed up

I think I'll start a new thread, although I do like the idea of changing rear lines. Anyone know if plunger should be firm after running engine?

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:38 am

well it started up okay this morning which is an improvement on the last 2 days....still looking around for a suitable pump that isn't going to be too noisey. Also spotted my rear exhaust hanger is rusted off, needs a touch of weld :roll:

Auberon · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:19 pm

Well, Steve, as it's a positive displacement pump in the head - if you've had it from new you would have an idea of how many times she has been pumped up but I've seen some chaps trying to prime diesels for days and they pump way more than they need to:
I was thinking of perhaps a need of a Primer Pump Replacement Kit which would be RK 20025-1 if you have a 200 series - this includes seals, plunger, check ball cap ......(in view of my thinking that the one-way valve might be leaking).
OR: Replacement Head (cream) complete RK20046-01.
There could be muck under the ball which is stopping it seating and acting as a check valve.
At least one can repair the Racor head - that other one - forget it.
It can't be expensive as the hole filter can be had for $130 approx.
Hope that provides an answer for you.

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:31 pm

may pop the ball out and check its clean, but TBH I would rather just fit the electric pump that spend more serviceing the filter head

Auberon · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:44 pm

Yeah. In all truth Racor should've been left in there and a lift pump that is accessible included into this system at production. Would've had next to no issues including that stoopid leak in those early issue crappo Mopar fuel heads. The lift pump in by-pass costs nothing to run (or add in production) - yet another short changing on what could've been a mighty vehicle.
I would've paid for those extra items rather than having to plod through making an OK vehicle a good one.

I take it you know about folk using the Kennedy but of course it is your preference. I found a local in-line one which I'll eventually add also.

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:49 am

Difficult start this morning & a rough idle. Checked the bleed valve in the head & clean fuel comes out. Unbolted the filter head & flipped it upside down & I had 1" of air in the glass bowl (really glad I have a racor not the US style filter or I wouldn't know about the air). Anyway, I purged the air out by priming it up side down & releaseing the air from the water drain. I now am 100% sure there is no air in the filter head, so will check tomorrow by just flipping the filter head to see if any air is in it, if so still have a leak somewhere. Also waiting for the electric pump I ordered to arrive, soon as that gets fitted I will be sorted (I hope

)

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:35 am

another none start this morning & 1" of airspace in the filter head :banghead:

Pump arrives tomorrow, fitting that & replacing both low pressure pipes in the engine bay, have a small pipe cutter to get the front feedpipe off by the crimp. If this fails I give up on it.

RTTT265 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:09 pm

Wouldnt give up on it yet, im running identical thread at the same time.

What I managed to do so far in the weekend was squirt my eyes with diesel, and strip the bleed screw in my new filter head.

Our jeep would plunger up hard and after a drive would need 6 pumps to come up hard again.

For the first time using the clear pipe from hardware store, you can bleed it till its solid, start and run and see no air, a few hard revs and you can see bubbles come through. When you turn it off all the air at the injector side makes it way back up to the filter head.

After a mucking around with all of this yes I still have an air leak, and its running bad again now but I know its just fuel lines air lift pump stuff as i got about 3 x long drives running perfectly before air accumulated again. :banghead:

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:10 am

Had another dig around last night. Took off the plastic plug over the none return ball and noticed the diesel around it fizzing, so air is still coming up from the feed side. Top suspect now is the pipe from the solid line to filter with the crimp on. Pump is here so when that is done I will replace the front pipe and also install a small glass inline filter housing in front of the filter & set it as the highest point in the system. At least I will be easilly able to see any air then.

pictures later.

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:31 am

fuel pump fitted, ran fine this morning. Wifey went out in it and it just cut out on her. Expect filter head will be full of air again as its not throwing codes. Giving up on this now :banghead:

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:20 am

The filter I had fitted was 1/2 full of air when I got to collect her. Primed it up, still air. Ran it back (20 miles) and all air is gone bar a tiny bubble. Leaving it to cool down to see if it draws air in then replace the front rubber pipe off the hard line as its the only one left. Would have done it before but I didn't have a pipe cutter, just got one.

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:18 am

Front pipe replaced & double clamped. Filter free of air, prime pump hard, fuel coming out of the outlet port and the pipe into the engine is brimmed with fuel. And it doesn't start :banghead:

No codes, just turns over. Wish they fitted an I6 to this thing :cry:

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:01 pm

Left it ten minutes and it started on the button. Must have been air in the line somewhere after the filter. Setup now has a glass pre filter to the filter so if any air is getting in on the feed side it should collect there & I know I still have a leak. If I get some no starts again will switch it to the engine side of the filter and see if air collects in it

samse2101 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:12 pm

Difficult problem, hope your leak is fixed now... :wink:

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:19 pm

Failed to start again this afternoon while I was out at work :banghead:

Wifey has gone out with the keys so I can't look at it :banghead:

Time is running out for this jeep, have to fix it or its going, can't have an unreliable Jeep.

Would there be any other causes for a none start that doesn't give you any codes?

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:10 pm

Right, wifey back so had a look.
I flipped filter head expecting to see air in the glass bowl when inverted, nothing, flipped it back & bolted up again. No bubbles in the glass filter I installed, pump klicking as expected, tried to prime the filter & it went rock hard after 1 pump. Turned it over & it fired up first time :roll:

So I have cured the air leaks from the tank to the filter head it seems. Last thing is the filter to engine fuel line. Although I have inspected the line & replaced the clips I didn't replace the hose as I didn't have enough at the time. Could be that, HOWEVER, the pump gives good pressure and it stays in the line a while after shutoff (found that out undoing the bleed bolt in the filter head & getting a hosing of diesel 5 minutes after the pump was running last) It now seems to run fine from cold but if you get it up to temp then park it for 30 minutes it won't start.

Any ideas other than the fuel pipe?

TIA

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:38 pm

Wondering if the washers on the inlet banjo onto the fuel pump are leaking when it gets hot? Steel pipe #7 here, rubber hose is secure onto it.

Auberon · **Posted:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:56 pm

Steve from that photo:
the front port on these filters is the inlet
the side port is the outlet.
The two side ports are the outlets.
Just something to verify.
I'm clutching at anything you might gain from to try to help.

steve@offroading.net · **Posted:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:04 pm

They are the correct way around, its just the routing of the glass filter pipe makes it look wrong, the glass filter is on the inlet feed.

Thanks

Not starting still (was Air getting into filter head)

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